On this page there is a link to a video from a different angle. It's from the direction the cops were coming from. Also an interesting article about the yellow book he was waving in the air by Greg Palast.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5083
Originally posted by Robtardno, I am focusing on the fact that we cant see everything that happened, therefore we are in no position to judge. the people there will be the ones with that responsibility thrust upon them.
Actually, that part of the video is fairly clear... you seem to overlook that and focus on him being an ass.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
say that shit, say that shit, but the bottom line is that we were not there. we dont know 100% what happened. I stated earlier that if someone can show me EVERYTHING that happened, and I see that the taze was excessive, that I'd eat my words.YOU, however, are doing a whole lot of assuming. assuming that the cops are dicks, assuming that the guy did nothing wrong. Until I see everything that happened, I will continue to laugh at his "ow ow ow!!!"
You don't need to see everything that happened. What's shown is plenty to know that at the time he was tased he was of no threat. You said he was, fine, still waiting for your explanation as to how lying on the ground with your hands behind your back is threatening, or how it's resisting. Again, what happened before, I.E. flailing about and being loud, is irrelevant. It's all about the condition of the person when he was tased, and when he was tased, he was of no threat at all.
Again, there are eyewitness accounts, aka people who actually DID see the whole thing, who support that.
I never said the cops were dicks, did I? I said the guy was acting like a dick, but that that's no good reason to attack him. I also never assumed that he did nothing wrong. I know he did wrong. Flailing and resisting while he was at first being dragged away was wrong, and THAT's when he should have been tazed. What I know (because I have eyes) is that while he was on the ground he was absolutely not resisting in any way, it's clear as day to any reasonable person - face down, arms behind his back, asking them questions.
YOU however, are assuming. You're assuming that this guy did this purposely, that he was malicious and that the cops had every right to taser him because of what he "may" have done. Going so far as to laugh at his pain, without even knowing everything there is to know about him and the incident. Pathetic that your mind is so shut off that you can't even consider the possibility that they used too much force. Acting as though we're in the wrong for making assumptions without seeing every single thing happen in High definition crystal clear video, while you're running around waving your dick around about how funny this guy's reaction to pain is.
Yeah, police academy won't fix all that. All it will do is teach you to use weapons so you can be the one to go and taze some loudmouth exercising his god given freedom of speech, without even realizing that by doing so you're inherently arguing against one of the basic foundations of this country.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no, I am focusing on the fact that we cant see everything that happened, therefore we are in no position to judge. the people there will be the ones with that responsibility thrust upon them.
...and as pointed out before and before and before, the "tasering" part is fairly clear, it doesn't matter if he had a gun before and yelled "Alluhu Akbar", the fact remains that they tasered him AFTER he was subdued.
Key word: AFTER.
Form page 9:
Originally posted by Robtard
Point is, he was much more of a threat before that, long before that. If they deemed tasers were necessary due to fear of injury to themselves or others, they should have done it long before (he was subdued). Good judgement is something officers absolutely must have, an essential, considering they carry guns, tasers, nightsticks etc.
Originally posted by BackFireso now you are assuming that I would be a terrible peace officer? thats a bold assumption to make just because I disagree with you on whether or not this taze was justifiable.
You don't need to see everything that happened. What's shown is plenty to know that at the time he was tased he was of no threat. You said he was, fine, still waiting for your explanation as to how lying on the ground with your hands behind your back is threatening, or how it's resisting. Again, what happened before, I.E. flailing about and being loud, is irrelevant. It's all about the condition of the person when he was tased, and when he was tased, he was of no threat at all.Again, there are eyewitness accounts, aka people who actually DID see the whole thing, who support that.
I never said the cops were dicks, did I? I said the guy was acting like a dick, but that that's no good reason to attack him. I also never assumed that he did nothing wrong. I know he did wrong. Flailing and resisting while he was at first being dragged away was wrong, and THAT's when he should have been tazed. What I know (because I have eyes) is that while he was on the ground he was absolutely not resisting in any way, it's clear as day to any reasonable person - face down, arms behind his back, asking them questions.
YOU however, are assuming. You're assuming that this guy did this purposely, that he was malicious and that the cops had every right to taser him because of what he "may" have done. Going so far as to laugh at his pain, without even knowing everything there is to know about him and the incident. Pathetic that your mind is so shut off that you can't even consider the possibility that they used too much force. Acting as though we're in the wrong for making assumptions without seeing every single thing happen in High definition crystal clear video, while you're running around waving your dick around about how funny this guy's reaction to pain is.
Yeah, police academy won't fix all that. All it will do is teach you to use weapons so you can be the one to go and taze some loudmouth exercising his god given freedom of speech, without even realizing that by doing so you're inherently arguing against one of the basic foundations of this country.
I am laughing more at the fact that he put on a frigging soap opera like performance, and he paid for it in the end.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and for the tenth time, we dont know, because we werent there. thats why the court relies on things called "witnesses", and "evidence."
So far, all the witnesses have been saying "He wasn't a threat".
Even the by-standards (these will be the witnesses) can be seen questioning the action of the cops, and condemning it because it's so clear to them that he's no threat.
Heck, look at the people sitting there in the video, until a weapon is brought out (By the police) they are all calm waiting for the whole thing to be over. It's not till the taser is brought out that people become alarmed. They weren't afraid of the kid, this directly supports him being harmless. If random people, without any training at all, who were just feet away from him didn't see him as threatening,what reason is there to think that the cops had good reason to see him as threatening?
Originally posted by RobtardIf he had had a gun, he'd be in the morgue right now.
...and as pointed out before and before and before, the "tasering" part is fairly clear, it does not matter if he had a gun before and yelled "Alluhu Akbar", the fact remains that they tasered him AFTER he was subdued.Key word: AFTER.
and despite your insistence, there is no way we can tell if he was subdued or not.
If you were my police partner, and some civilian took a swing at me, what would you do?
Originally posted by BackFirebecause cops are trained to recognize and assess a threat, and act accordingly. you and I are not, neither are the witnesses.
So far, all the witnesses have been saying "He wasn't a threat".Even the by-standards (these will be the witnesses) can be seen questioning the action of the cops, and condemning it because it's so clear to them that he's no threat.
Heck, look at the people sitting there in the video, until a weapon is brought out (By the police) they are all calm waiting for the whole thing to be over. It's not till the taser is brought out that people become alarmed. They weren't afraid of the kid, this directly supports him being harmless. If random people, without any training at all, who were just feet away from him didn't see him as threatening,what reason is there to think that the cops had good reason to see him as threatening?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so now you are assuming that I would be a terrible peace officer? thats a bold assumption to make just because I disagree with you on whether or not this taze was justifiable.I am laughing more at the fact that he put on a frigging soap opera like performance, and he paid for it in the end.
Go look up the word 'assumption'. You'll see that's not what I'm doing. I'm coming to the conclusion - based on the way you're celebrating this guy's pain, and have argued that being a loud fool is enough to justify being tasered, that you would not make a good cop. I think police protocol would agree with me.
So now you're saying that putting on a performance is worthy of being tasered? I don't follow.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If he had had a gun, he'd be in the morgue right now.and despite your insistence, there is no way we can tell if he was subdued or not.
If you were my police partner, and some civilian took a swing at me, what would you do?
Yes, we can see for certain that his hands were held behind his back. The cuffs look like a high possibility, this has been pointed out before:
Originally posted by Robtard
Well, I can't be with 100% certainty, but it does look like they were. You see two officers holding his arms behind his back, and another that was holding cuffs messing around the spot were his wrist would be. I dunno, maybe the cuff holding cop was fingering his ass, but I wouldn't assume that.
Originally posted by BackFire
Watching the video again, it's very clear that both of his arms were restrained when he was shocked. Perhaps not by handcuffs, but each was being held behind his back by an officer. I.E. Not possibly a threat.
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Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If you were my police partner, and some civilian took a swing at me, what would you do?
Edit:
I would also notify internal affairs of your mental state, if you were my partner. I'd fear you'd use the "he's coming straight for us!" approach in every situation and just shot first.
Originally posted by BackFireas I said, I am laughing because he put on a show, thought he had it all planned out, and it backfired on him.
Go look up the word 'assumption'. You'll see that's not what I'm doing. I'm coming to the conclusion - based on the way you're celebrating this guy's pain, and have argued that being a loud fool is enough to justify being tasered, that you would not make a good cop. I think police protocol would agree with me.So now you're saying that putting on a performance is worthy of being tasered? I don't follow.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
because cops are trained to recognize and assess a threat, and act accordingly. you and I are not, neither are the witnesses.
So, these cops basically have a get out of jail free card to you. The witnesses who actually saw the entire thing play out shouldn't be able to pass judgement on these cops, yet they're the only ones who could possibly do so because they were there. So basically, these witnesses have no credibility, and since they're the only ones who could say whether or not proper force was used and be objective about it, the cops can do anything they want and suffer no consequences. Unless there's some other, completely objective cop who knows procedure, standing there watching the whole thing live (since you've said the video isn't clear enough to show that the guy wasn't magically resisting arrest with his face down and his arms behind his back).
Nah, these witnesses are fully capable of knowing that obscene force was used. You don't need training to know the basic rights afforded to a person in this country. The guy was being a dick, and once again, being a dick isn't enough to be tasered.
I know you disagree with me (as you've said being a fool is enough to get tasered, let's not forget that) but that is the truth according to our constitution.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as I said, I am laughing because he put on a show, thought he had it all planned out, and it backfired on him.
So, you're assuming then? That he had it all planned out?
I thought assuming was bad?
Originally posted by BackFireI never said acting a fool is tazer worthy, I said that when you resist arrest, you can expect to get zapped.
So, these cops basically have a get out of jail free card to you. The witnesses who actually saw the entire thing play out shouldn't be able to pass judgement on these cops, yet they're the only ones who could possibly do so because they were there. So basically, these witnesses have no credibility, and since they're the only ones who could say whether or not proper force was used and be objective about it, the cops can do anything they want and suffer no consequences. Unless there's some other, completely objective cop who knows procedure, standing there watching the whole thing.Nah, these witnesses are fully capable of knowing that obscene force was used. You don't need training to know the basic rights afforded to a person in this country. The guy was being a dick, and once again, being a dick isn't enough to be tasered.
I know you disagree with me (as you've said being a fool is enough to get tasered, let's not forget that) but that is the truth according to our constitution.
So, you're assuming then? That he had it all planned out?
I thought assuming was bad?
yeah, I am assuming, JUST as you are doing. there are two major X factors.
1. WE WEREN'T THERE.
2. THE MISSING VIDEO CLIPS.
honestly, you dont think it is odd that at one moment he is being carried down the aisle, the next he is subdued on the ground many feet away? aren't you in the least bit curious as to what happened during those crucial moments, and why they weren't filmed?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If he had had a gun, he'd be in the morgue right now.and despite your insistence, there is no way we can tell if he was subdued or not.
If you were my police partner, and some civilian took a swing at me, what would you do?
Sure is. Him being on the ground, face down, with his arms being held behind his belt certainly constitutes being subdued. Unless he has mind powers. Which we should assume he does, just like it's okay to assume he's dangerous, and that he was resisting, and that he had it all planned out, and that he was a taliban member.
Originally posted by BackFireIt's the same old story we hear every damn day. "Why are cops such assholes? why do cops stop us because we look suspect? why is it when a cop stops me, he puts that big light on my car, so I cant see him, and his hand is resting on his gun?"
Sure is. Him being on the ground, face down, with his arms being held behind his belt certainly constitutes being subdued. Unless he has mind powers. Which we should assume he does, just like it's okay to assume he's dangerous, and that he was resisting, and that he had it all planned out, and that he was a taliban member.
because cops have no way of knowing what any one suspect is capable of. they have no idea what is waiting for them in the car they stop. they have no way of knowing when they will encounter a suspect that will do anything in their power to kill them. they have to assume that every encounter they have is potentially life threatening.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never said acting a fool is tazer worthy, I said that when you resist arrest, you can expect to get zapped.yeah, I am assuming, JUST as you are doing. there are two major X factors.
1. WE WEREN'T THERE.
2. THE MISSING VIDEO CLIPS.
honestly, you dont think it is odd that at one moment he is being carried down the aisle, the next he is subdued on the ground many feet away? aren't you in the least bit curious as to what happened during those crucial moments, and why they weren't filmed?
You never said acting a fool is tazer worthy?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes it does and I agree with it. but do you not see the guy acting a fool, waving his hands in the air, getting all loud and shit? how could the cops know what he was up to? as far as they know, he could have been a member of the taliban.
You directly stated that, in response to Robtard telling you that the first amendment guarantees our safety while speaking freely. You insinuate that acting a fool, waving his hands in the air and "getting loud" shouldn't be protected by freedom of speech and is thus tazer worthy, since that's what you're maintaining that he did. Also it's funny because you don't even realize you are disagreeing with freedom of speech, right there.
Yes, I did find it odd, then I went and found another video clip that is 3+ minutes that show's the whole thing. There is still a single cut, but it is much less drastic than the cut in the video posted in the original post.
And there, you freely admit now that he was subdued on the ground when the tazing took place. But that's fine, right? Cuz he was acting a fool and "being loud". Right on.