Originally posted by ushomefreeHe makes very good points. But then he ****s up by not thinking it through. Even if God exists, his earlier points apply. There just are NO objective morals.
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His axioms are wrong too.
Originally posted by ushomefree
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Objective moral values??????????? No such thing. However, I've noticed a lovely thread that flows through many different religions - the idea of "harm none" - in wicca, "do as you will, but harm none" (& the law of threefold return/karma)...in christianity "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" & "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial" (yes that's in the bible, too)...and I've seen this ideology in other teachings as well - basically try to live as peacefully as you can with others, but there really isn't a plumbline - a definitive moral compass to go by. If you say the 10 Commandments, maybe if you are Jewish, but not according to Paul!
Originally posted by julibugGreat points.
Objective moral values??????????? No such thing. However, I've noticed a lovely thread that flows through many different religions - the idea of "harm none" - in wicca, "do as you will, but harm none" (& the law of threefold return/karma)...in christianity "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" & "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial" (yes that's in the bible, too)...and I've seen this ideology in other teachings as well - basically try to live as peacefully as you can with others, but there really isn't a plumbline - a definitive moral compass to go by. If you say the 10 Commandments, maybe if you are Jewish, but not according to Paul!
Originally posted by julibug
JIA, a few questions:1. Do you believe the Bible to be an absolute? Or just the God the Bible talks about?
2. If you believe the Bible to be absolute truth - which version is it - or is it just the original Greek & Hebrew with faulty man-made translations?
3. Is it possible that YWHW and Allah are the same God, but viewed by different perspectives (remember until Isaac and Ishmael, Christians consider Jews and Muslims to have been the same group of people)?
I have more questions about your belief in hell, but I'll save them for later - or maybe a more appropraite thread...
JIA has been Raptured. 😂
Originally posted by lord xyz
If we're talking about moral values, my philosphy is:Do whatever you want, aslong as it's beneficial to most people.
So....not "do what you want" at all? Much more..."do what is beneficial to most people".
It's in my opinion, very hard to evaluate such situations and to decide where to draw the line.
true there are no objective morals. because we humans are by nature subjective{as we should be}, biased towards hapiness, existance, self preservation etc. we often forget that it also part of our nature to be able to love others/care for them and hence its very easy to create morals based on logic which acknowledges these biases.
on the ther hand there practically no truth to dogmatic morals not directly based on the above and mutually benefitial humanistic things. morals are subjective, but the subjectivity doesnt have to come from relegion.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No absolutes?
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveGod is absolute. Jesus is God; therefore, Jesus is absolute.
Syllogism?
Considering everything you believe about God is based only on faith:
Belief in God is based on faith; faith lacks proof; therefore, there is no proof of God.
That's a more accurate syllogism.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No absolutes?
Originally posted by Robtard
Considering everything you believe about God is based only on faith:Belief in God is based on faith; faith lacks proof; therefore, there is no proof of God.
That's a more accurate syllogism.
Not correct. Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).
Hebrews 11:1 (New King James Version)
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 (Amplified Bible)
1NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, (the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].
From a believer's perspective faith is the evidence (i.e. proof) of what he/she cannot perceive through the senses.
Hence, Belief in God is based on faith; faith is the evidence/proof; therefore, there is proof of God (again, based on faith which is the evidence)
Syllogism reloaded.
😄
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No absolutes?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was just a man.There are a lot of people on the Earth that say the Koran is the word of god.
I say, you can't find God in a book.
I would say someone who waits all their life for something that never happens is miserable.
The burden of proof is on you to prove that Jesus was just a man (based on what others have said about Him and witnessed first-hand).
Originally posted by julibug
JIA, a few questions:1. Do you believe the Bible to be an absolute? Or just the God the Bible talks about?
2. If you believe the Bible to be absolute truth - which version is it - or is it just the original Greek & Hebrew with faulty man-made translations?
3. Is it possible that YWHW and Allah are the same God, but viewed by different perspectives (remember until Isaac and Ishmael, Christians consider Jews and Muslims to have been the same group of people)?
I have more questions about your belief in hell, but I'll save them for later - or maybe a more appropraite thread...
1. I believe that the Bible is the Word of the living God in Heaven. I believe that the God of the Bible is absolute.
2. The Bible is the Word of God. Paraphrased translations do a tremendous disservice to the Word of God by adulterating and weakening the text. The best translations are word-for-word (i.e. the King James or New King James translations.
3. YHWH and Allah are not one and the same I have addressed this issue at length in a number of posts. Here is some surahs from the Qu’ran that contradict what the Bible says proving that the God of the Bible and the god of the Qu’ran cannot be one and the same.
The god of the Qu’ran (Allah) denies having a son.
Surah 4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
Surah 6:101 The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things ?
Surah 18:4,5 And to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son, (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie.
Surah 23:91 Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any god along with Him; else would each god have assuredly championed that which he created, and some of them would assuredly have overcome others. Glorified be Allah above all that they allege.
The god of the Qu’ran (Allah) denies that Jesus was crucified.
Surah 4:157 And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.