Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is not possible.
They're both descendant from Abrhamic tradition, so it is very possible.
Actually, IIRC, Islam is just seen by Muslims as a superior "revision" of Judaic/Christian doctrine, and think that they are perceiving God's true word, while earlier stories were inherently flawed.
Heck, the Koran mentions Jesus, and the Muslims regard him as a prophet but not the savior.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonThat's what I thought. 😂
That's because mommy and daddy are always right. 😂
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosErmm, yeah they do. Christmas is said to be the Birth of Jesus, and Easter is said to be the rebirth of Jesus. However, they are wrong as they are to do with the sun.
Except that the dates used for Christmas and Easter have nothing at all to do with Jesus . . .
Originally posted by DigiMark007
They're both descendant from Abrhamic tradition, so it is very possible.Actually, IIRC, Islam is just seen by Muslims as a superior "revision" of Judaic/Christian doctrine, and think that they are perceiving God's true word, while earlier stories were inherently flawed.
Heck, the Koran mentions Jesus, and the Muslims regard him as a prophet but not the savior.
The Bible preceded the Koran by thousands of years. The Qu'ran mentions many Biblical persons including Jesus and Mary. However, the Bible never mentions Allah or Mohammed.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible preceded the Koran by thousands of years. The Qu'ran mentions [B]many Biblical persons including Jesus and Mary. However, the Bible never mentions Allah or Mohammed. [/B]
There are other books much older then the bible. Does the age of a book make it more valid?
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveThat's because the Quran came after the Bible.
The Bible preceded the Koran by thousands of years. The Qu'ran mentions [B]many Biblical persons including Jesus and Mary. However, the Bible never mentions Allah or Mohammed. [/B]
The Quran is basically an expansion to the story, but sees Jesus as a false prophet, which makes sense, since he doesn't exist.
Originally posted by lord xyzEvidence that Jesus didn't exist please?
That's because the Quran came after the Bible.The Quran is basically an expansion to the story, but sees Jesus as a false prophet, which makes sense, since he doesn't exist.
Also, Islam doesn't consider Jesus a false prophet. He is the second greatest prophet in Islam.
Originally posted by NellinatorWell, first you prove that Jesus exists. Show me just one historian that documents Jesus' existance.
Evidence that Jesus didn't exist please?Also, Islam doesn't consider Jesus a false prophet. He is the second greatest prophet in Islam.
Also, explain why Jesus shares the same characteristics as many messiahs before it like Horus, who ultimately, is the human form of the sun, which makes sense as the story is based off of Astrology and Jesus is a representation of the sun. Not only is he sun, but he also represents the sun during the age of Pisces. Now ages are every ~2150 where the Earth wobbles on it's axis.
4300BC -- 2150BC, age of Taurus which in 2150BC Moses told the Jews to stop worshiping the Bull, symbolising the end of the age.
2150BC -- 0AD, age of Aries which is where Moses said for his people to blow the ram horns and other scripture shows Moses talking about sheep, which is Aries.
0AD -- 2150AD, age of Pisces, this is also the age Jesus was born. Remember Jesus befriending two fisherman, feeding his people with two fish and the JESUS LIVES fish? It symbolises Jesus is the age of Pisces.
2150AD -- 4300AD, age of Aquarius, when asked who to worship when he [Jesus] is gone, he asked them to wait for a man bearing a pitcher of water. He is Aquarius. Also, Jesus said he'll be with us to the end of the world, which is actually a mistranslation, what it originally said was end of the age, the age of Pisces.
Now, unless you have an explanation of that, we'll have to go with the assumption that Jesus is a symbol used for the Sun in the age of Pisces. Remember, Jesus is the light, the saviour, is reborn. That is all symbolism for the Sun.
As for Islam, they do not acknowledge Jesus as an important part of Islam. They see the three main people of finding the truth are Abraham, Moses and Muhammed.
Josephus as he originally wrote:
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and (he) was known to be virtuous. and many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not desert his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.
Tacitus (56-117):
Nero fastened the guilt [of starting the blaze] and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius [14-37] at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.
Suetonius (69-140 AD):
As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome
Lucian (second century AD):
The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account… You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.
Also, Celsus, Pliny the Younger, and others. All non-Christians.
Also, Moses lived around 1500 BC at the latest, definitely not 2150 BC. The earliest the age of Taurus can be dated is 1658 So that gets the fail.
Wow, Moses talked about sheep. I mean, a people that were predominately shepherds in the land of Goshan should never mention sheep amirite?
Two men from Galilee that actually were fisherman. Also, not that they were called away from that life, which is contradictory to the point.
Being a saviour has nothing to do with the sun. Creating a path to heaven, which is a spiritual realm has nothing to do with astrology. Also, Jesus was not reborn. That is quite false. Resurrection is much much different and the symbolism is not comparable.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible preceded the Koran by thousands of years. The Qu'ran mentions [B]many Biblical persons including Jesus and Mary. However, the Bible never mentions Allah or Mohammed. [/B]
If you include the New Testament, then the Bible is only about 500 years older. It doesn't mention Mohammed, because he wasn't born, and "allah" means "god" in Arabic, so yeah, it mentions him.
Josephus as he originally wrote:Yes, he was described as a man.At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and (he) was known to be virtuous. and many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not desert his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.
Tacitus (56-117):
Nero fastened the guilt [of starting the blaze] and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius [14-37] at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.
Suetonius (69-140 AD):
As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome
But see how in the 2nd centuries on he was changed into a deity, or starting to be worshipped? The first hand accounts never mentioned that.
Originally posted by NellinatorThis has been proven to be a false historian, IE they made him up. Sad, how people still don't know that.
Josephus as he originally wrote:At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and (he) was known to be virtuous. and many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not desert his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.
Originally posted by NellinatorChristus and Chrestus are a title, not a name. They say the christians worshipped someone, but that does not document the actual person. What about a historian saying "There is/was a man who could turn water into wine, and his name was Jesus" that would actual be a documentation of the actual person. But no, there is nothing like that. No documentation of Jesus Christ, you failed.
Tacitus (56-117):Nero fastened the guilt [of starting the blaze] and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius [14-37] at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.
Suetonius (69-140 AD):
As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome
Lucian (second century AD):
The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account… You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.
Originally posted by NellinatorThat does not matter.
Also, Celsus, Pliny the Younger, and others. All non-Christians.
Originally posted by NellinatorIt does not matter when the Bible said Moses was born. Moss talked about destroying the Bull(calf) which is Taurus.
Also, Moses lived around 1500 BC at the latest, definitely not 2150 BC. The earliest the age of Taurus can be dated is 1658 So that gets the fail.
And the age of Taurus is 4300BC -- 2150BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Taurus#The_Great_Month_of_Taurus_.28Taurus-Scorpio.29
Originally posted by Nellinator...The people also don't exist. The fact that they're shepheards strengthens my theory that it's about the age of Aries.
Wow, Moses talked about sheep. I mean, a people that were predominately shepherds in the land of Goshan should never mention sheep amirite?
Originally posted by NellinatorSee, you keep claiming these people are real. Where's the proof? From a non-christian point of view, the Bible being astrology makes much more sense.
Two men from Galilee that actually were fisherman. Also, not that they were called away from that life, which is contradictory to the point.
Originally posted by NellinatorBeing a saviour does have to do with the sun. The sun gives life, light and warmth to the world. Jesus is the sun.
Being a saviour has nothing to do with the sun. Creating a path to heaven, which is a spiritual realm has nothing to do with astrology. Also, Jesus was not reborn. That is quite false. Resurrection is much much different and the symbolism is not comparable.
"Aslong as I am in the world, I am the light of the world" JOHN 9:5
"And go quickly, and tell his disciples (12 disciples, just like there's 12 constellations, foretelling the sun's mythological journey through the year), that he is risen from the dead" MATT 28:6
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you" (Just like he does, every morning) JOHN 14:3
"Verily I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom." JOHN 3:3
"Let us cast off the works of darkness and let us put on the armour of light" ROM 13:12
"They shall see the son coming in the clouds" MARK 13:26
"Jesus came forth, wearing a crown of thorns (or sun rays)" JOHN 19:5
Ressurection is the same symbolism. The sun comes back to life (is ressurected (by god)) every morning to save us from the darkness and the cold. Sound familiar?
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloNo, "the Christ" means "The annointed one". Yes, the title is given to Jesus, but because these historians only refer to that title, they could have been talking about anyone, also, their evidence of there being an annointed one, is the christians themselves.
Um...you know, "the Christ" happens to be a title of Jesus. Jesus the Christ, shortened to Jesus Christ.
Christus and Chrestus are a title, not a name. They say the christians worshipped someone, but that does not document the actual person. What about a historian saying "There is/was a man who could turn water into wine, and his name was Jesus" that would actual be a documentation of the actual person. But no, there is nothing like that. No documentation of Jesus Christ, you failed.
Being a saviour does have to do with the sun. The sun gives life, light and warmth to the world. Jesus is the sun."Aslong as I am in the world, I am the light of the world" JOHN 9:5
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
"And go quickly, and tell his disciples (12 disciples, just like there's 12 constellations, foretelling the sun's mythological journey through the year), that he is risen from the dead" MATT 28:6
Also, rising from the dead might be similar to the rising of the sun, but one could say the same thing about anything that goes in cycles. JESUS THE MOON GOD, JESUS THE SEASONS GOD, etc.
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you" (Just like he does, every morning) JOHN 14:3
"Verily I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom." JOHN 3:3
"Let us cast off the works of darkness and let us put on the armour of light" ROM 13:12
"They shall see the son coming in the clouds" MARK 13:26
"Jesus came forth, wearing a crown of thorns (or sun rays)" JOHN 19:5
And since when is the sun crucified? Or stabbed? Or whipped, beaten, and spit upon?
Originally posted by lord xyz
No, "the Christ" means "The annointed one". Yes, the title is given to Jesus,
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloI already stated the Bible is false and should not be used as a real sorce.
Also, there is documentation. It's in four books that have been compiled into one known as the Bible.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloHow does that debunk Jesus saying he's the light of the world? IE THE SUN!
John 9:3-5Speaking metaphorically = lol wut?
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo12 is repeated throught the Bible. Why all those references to 12? Unless it's based off of the 12 months, 12 zodiac signs.
Holy crap, twelve disciples, just like there are twelve days of Christmas...MY CONSPIRACY SENSE IS TINGLING.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloMight be? Open your ****ing eyes! The evidence is overwhelming.
Also, rising from the dead might be similar to the rising of the sun, but one could say the same thing about anything that goes in cycles. JESUS THE MOON GOD, JESUS THE SEASONS GOD, etc.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloSo his double talk being confusing means he isn't speaking metaphorical? Oh wait, you just proved me right.
See the above.If you'll notice, Jesus's phrasing of this confused a man because he thought he had to go back inside his mother's womb.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloAll these coincidences, a little suspicious don't you think?
Holy shit, more symbolism. MY MIND IS IMPLODING.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloAnd what evidence is there of a rapture? That's right, the same bullshit book I am debunking. Nice one Zeal. 😐
The rest of that verse kind of negates the idea that Jesus is the sun, unless, of course, the Rapture is occurring on a day-to-day basis. (Oh, snap.)
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloSarcasm I'm sure. Likely because you're afraid to admit it means the sun's rays.
Really? Are you sure that they weren't just really long thorns that stabbed into his skull?
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloIn astrology, it being in the lowest point of the sky (Winter solstice (Dec 22nd (3 days before Dec. 25th))) is known as the "crux" and the symbol for the sun's position, is a cross.
And since when is the sun crucified? Or stabbed? Or whipped, beaten, and spit upon?
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloNo. It is a title for whoever lead the Christians. Doesn't say Jesus lead the Christians, or Jesus is Christus, or Jesus performed miracles, or Jesus rose from the dead. Just, "the christians were lead by the annointed one". Your argument is a series of delusions, look at the bigger picture -- outside the room of Christianity.
...Therefore, it is a title of Jesus. QED.
Originally posted by lord xyz
Well, first you prove that Jesus exists. Show me just one historian that documents Jesus' existance.Also, explain why Jesus shares the same characteristics as many messiahs before it like Horus, who ultimately, is the human form of the sun, which makes sense as the story is based off of Astrology and Jesus is a representation of the sun. Not only is he sun, but he also represents the sun during the age of Pisces. Now ages are every ~2150 where the Earth wobbles on it's axis.
4300BC -- 2150BC, age of Taurus which in 2150BC Moses told the Jews to stop worshiping the Bull, symbolising the end of the age.
2150BC -- 0AD, age of Aries which is where Moses said for his people to blow the ram horns and other scripture shows Moses talking about sheep, which is Aries.
0AD -- 2150AD, age of Pisces, this is also the age Jesus was born. Remember Jesus befriending two fisherman, feeding his people with two fish and the JESUS LIVES fish? It symbolises Jesus is the age of Pisces.
2150AD -- 4300AD, age of Aquarius, when asked who to worship when he [Jesus] is gone, he asked them to wait for a man bearing a pitcher of water. He is Aquarius. Also, Jesus said he'll be with us to the end of the world, which is actually a mistranslation, what it originally said was end of the age, the age of Pisces.
Now, unless you have an explanation of that, we'll have to go with the assumption that Jesus is a symbol used for the Sun in the age of Pisces. Remember, Jesus is the light, the saviour, is reborn. That is all symbolism for the Sun.
As for Islam, they do not acknowledge Jesus as an important part of Islam. They see the three main people of finding the truth are Abraham, Moses and Muhammed.
"HISTORICAL RECORDS
Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."
It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate. Tactius also wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The Christians are mentioned as a group that were connected with these events. "All we can gather from this reference is that Tactius was also aware of the existence of Christians other than in the context of their presence in Rome," states Habermas. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City." Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ. Suetonius refers to a wave of riots that broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city."
--Harry V. Martin. (1995). Proving the historic Jesus. http://sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html