Originally posted by Accelnot really, it only shows what an effective sneak attack can do to logan if continued without pause. a logan who doesn't even have his claws out...
Someone as strong as Namor or Wonderman wouldn’t need to actually send Wolverine flying. They would just need to punch him to send him off balance and then proceed to beat him up (ala Wonderman) before he gets the chance to heal.While the incident was a sneak attack, it does show that Wolverine is pretty much helpless if a Class 100 continues to pummel his without pause.
and it's doesnt even do too good of a job at that, considering logan was shrugging off the assault on the next page, boasting that he could have handled wonder man.
Originally posted by AccelI don't think gravity can compare to admantium claws... 😬
It would be consistent for Wolverine, but it wouldn’t be consistent or the people he fights. Therein lies the problem.Surfer flies through black holes without trouble. Wolverine’s claws shouldn’t even compare to that.
I mean, firelord goes through black holes too, but he's still been beaten by pretty weak blunt force..
Originally posted by Accel
Thanos manages to shrug off attacks from Sky-Fathers without any noticeable damage. Again, Wolverine’s claws shouldn’t even be noticed.
Originally posted by Acceli've seen that, the only reasonable explaination for this is that the admantium the dog could crush was a lower grade.. admantium has multiple grades... logans' admantium is the highest and most expensive grade there is, and the durability of it was further induced by nano technology and the bonding to wolverine's skeleton that resulted in admantium beta.
Hulk has resisted adamantium-crushing force from a Dog of War (something which had to have been stronger than Wolverine).
Originally posted by Accelyes it has been reconnted... in hulk 454 wolverine attacks hulks throat and hulk recognized that wolverine could cut his throat if the calws weren't bone, in marvel knights hulk/wolverine, wolverine snikted hulk all the way down a mountain. in hulk 145 wolverine puts an admantium sword all the way through hulks torso, then he put his claws through hulks hands, eventually his claws got throough hulks neck too, during six hours wolverine scores a couple of slashes accross hulks body and head, then he snickts hulks hands and cuts them, in the adventures of the x men 1 (not to be confused with the cartoon x-men adventures book) savage hulk screams at logan that he doesn't want to be cut or hurt by the claws again... in tempest fugit, in nightmare's realm, wolverine's claws were going through hulk like mad, and hulk not only didn't think it was wired that logan was cutting the shit out of him, but commented on how logan had lost his edge. Savage hulk also commonly refers to wolverine as "little man who always hurts hulk, who always cuts hulk"....
He’s also shown to be impervious to those claws in Wolverine’s first appearance (this wasn’t necessarily retconned since the Hulk Wolverine fought when he said he just healed quickly was the Grey Hulk, the weakest version).
obviously wolverine can cut hulk.
Originally posted by Accelblack widow's hardcore, she's taken down jean grey for god sakes.
And as for the Herc incident, wasn't that in CoC? The same story where Black Widow beat Wonderman?
Originally posted by Accelsoooo... speculation...
It’s very possible and it would explain the incident. We’re talking about a man who never felt worthy of victory,which caused him to lose whatever power he gained. This same man possessed the power over reality and and power, which could have very well made him weaker due to his subconscious desires.
Originally posted by Accel
No, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he ever did. The point is, a man composed of ions shouldn’t really have to worry about claw marks and such since his physiology isn’t the same as most others.I personally wouldn’t find stabbing at a collection of ions very useful.
so... speculation....
meh, i wouldnt' think trying to stab an intagible person like shadowcat would do much good, but when logan tries it.. well. 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
not really, it only shows what an effective sneak attack can do to logan if continued without pause. a logan who doesn't even have his claws out...and it's doesnt even do too good of a job at that, considering logan was shrugging off the assault on the next page, boasting that he could have handled wonder man.
Originally posted by jinzin
I don't think gravity can compare to admantium claws... 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
I mean, firelord goes through black holes too, but he's still been beaten by pretty weak blunt force..
Originally posted by jinzin
again not sure that blasts can be compared to admantium claws.
Originally posted by jinzin
i've seen that, the only reasonable explaination for this is that the admantium the dog could crush was a lower grade.. admantium has multiple grades... logans' admantium is the highest and most expensive grade there is, and the durability of it was further induced by nano technology and the bonding to wolverine's skeleton that resulted in admantium beta.
Originally posted by jinzin
yes it has been reconnted... in hulk 454 wolverine attacks hulks throat and hulk recognized that wolverine could cut his throat if the calws weren't bone, in marvel knights hulk/wolverine, wolverine snikted hulk all the way down a mountain. in hulk 145 wolverine puts an admantium sword all the way through hulks torso, then he put his claws through hulks hands, eventually his claws got throough hulks neck too, during six hours wolverine scores a couple of slashes accross hulks body and head, then he snickts hulks hands and cuts them, in the adventures of the x men 1 (not to be confused with the cartoon x-men adventures book) savage hulk screams at logan that he doesn't want to be cut or hurt by the claws again... in tempest fugit, in nightmare's realm, wolverine's claws were going through hulk like mad, and hulk not only didn't think it was wired that logan was cutting the shit out of him, but commented on how logan had lost his edge. Savage hulk also commonly refers to wolverine as "little man who always hurts hulk, who always cuts hulk"....obviously wolverine can cut hulk.
Originally posted by jinzin
black widow's hardcore, she's taken down jean grey for god sakes.
Originally posted by jinzin
soooo... speculation...
the same guy who was shrugging off hits from drax and hulk, namor, and thor, and swatting them away like flies was weaker?
Other wise, how else would you explain Wolverine stabbing someone who was supposed to be omniscient and could battle the likes of Eternity?
Originally posted by jinzin
so... speculation....meh, i wouldnt' think trying to stab an intagible person like shadowcat would do much good, but when logan tries it.. well. 😬
Originally posted by long pigF**k!! I keep forgetting about that. Thanx for reminding me man. Uberine 1000/10. Supes wins also because he sustains four monthly titles 😈 😈
Impossible.Wolverine's healing factor can steal speed somewhat like the speed force, leaving Namor like a statue.
That's how he beat Quicksilver, speed demon and the gay canadian.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
In brawling...
And fist striking doesn't really help him that much either. Namor is better in that one, and is capable of brushing off his blows (claws or not) or dodging them.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Geists armor = roughly 10-20 movements.Namor sculpting entire statue with lot of details = 100+ movements [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerno I'm talking about these flyin pods that the danger room uses... gambit was shown bounding around themlike crazy and wolverine shrugged it off as child's play.
[B]Danger Room? What, it took him .03 seconds to cross about one meter? That's like...60 mph? 🤨 [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B] In their first fight, he was 18 and thought he was hitting an normal human...and are you saying that brainwashed people fight as fast and good as normal? 🤨 [B]
in their first fight he was capible of keeping up with torch, but he was amazed he missed cap.. funny...
he wasn't really brainwashed, he was being controlled (like a video game character). so yeah there was really no reason for him to be slower.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]And why would he have to fight flawless? He can take cuts with ease, [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawleroh please.. did you just say pain as never bothered namor? WOW.. that's just.... wow.... 😬
[B] pain has NEVER bothered him (except against Wolverine in Invaders, badly written as it was). Or is every attack Wolverine lands automatically going to hit Namor's weakest place and there is nothing he can do about it? 😂 [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]If he aims for legs, arms, face or chest, he isn't doing much damage. Lots of bones there. [B]
first off, when wolverine stabbed namor in wolvie 45, he stabbed him straight through...the claws had to go through clavicles, scapulas, the high ribs, or a combination thereof to do that... so there's very little to suggest that wolverine can't cut namor's bones.. and even if you're right.. so what? namor still loses the function and/or strength of that limb..
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Yet, he never goes all out or seriously against those guys...when he does, they are one-shotted or he simply dodges their blows. Etc. why Spider-Man had to rely with sneak attacks against him, why Hulk doesn't land a single hit when he goes seriously against him, [B]
bull, he doesn't go seriously against thing? tiger shark? the hulk?
no you're just reaching...
hulk clobbers on him in every fight they have for god's sakes.
and in a large majority of those fight namor loses his temper and attacks the hero first.. and he STILL gets hit.. 😬
Originally posted by DarkCrawlergood for him... too bad knowing that much won't make much difference.. when wolverine starts landing blows they're going to beeffective no matter where they land.
[B]And Wolverine will land blows. But again, they won't really do much, unless he hits him in stomach or neck. And Namor has been trained in swordfighting, he knows that protecting neck and stomach are important... [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerand again wolverine only needs to land one blow and continue.. 🙄
[B]And again, Namor only needs to land one blow and continue. [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Except that only time Cap has landed an fair hit on him is when he was mindcontrolled or young.[B]
oh by the way...
wrong:
http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048142ve.jpg
wrong:
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica181029hd.jpg
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica181030ey.jpg
oh and wrong:
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=141ta.jpg
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerbecause you were disengenuinely representing them.
Crucial aspects that apply to entirely different points then what I was discussing. [B]
.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlershock 😂 AAAANNNNNNND that would be the sound of you losing credibility...
[B]Wolverine was still helpless against those Class 100 blows whether he was fighting them or not, [B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerLOL
[B]weakened or not, surprised or not..[B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawleryou mean like a class 100 would be unable to do anything unless logan stopped stabbing them?
[B].he simply isn't able to attack an Class 100 unless they stop hitting him for reason or another.[B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawlernot really. the ACTUAL representation of namor isn't a weaker one, it's just the ne that exists..
[B].Whoops, I forgot. Namor needs to be weakened in order to Wolverine to do anything....[B]
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerI'll look for the first.. for the second. he hit him... clearly namor's not out of cap's league to be hit.. he got behind namor by dodging another speedy assault...
[B].Erm...when was Namor on mission to kill? Was the mission to kill Captain America?And in the disguise fight...Cap landed ONE blow on Namor when he was behind him...Namor landed three blows, which one was on head to head collision, and Namor was faster on that...
Originally posted by DarkCrawlernot namor?you're about that he was far better than namor, he put down torch and namor in a matter of seconds... and he sapped namors very own strength not to mention the fact that he was using his electrical currents against cap.. and we only see three hits but the story implies that the fight was longer than that.
.N2 clone wasn't Namor, neither it had the same abilities and it was not using Namor's powers better. It was knocked out by three blows from Cap, therefore it was also weaker...
Originally posted by DarkCrawleryou mean like sorceror supreme doesn't fight like the hu--- oh my bad i didn't mean to kill your argument on that one lol.
.Controller doesn't fight like Namor, doesn't really apply there either...
Originally posted by DarkCrawleravengers 117 I think.
.And which one of the fights was when Namor was super pissed at Captain America?
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerunderwater, not the same as on the land.. you know.. where namor fought them 3 more times.. and DIDN'T outspeed them whatsoever. ?
.About the Lava men...ehh what? Namor clearly outspeeded them underwater and they snuck up on him...
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerwhen he was adult, he still got grounded by cap (idn't namor start that by the way) and then after that it wasn't a hand to hand really... when he was young.. uhhh yeah.. it was caps first noteable with a superhuman on namor's level... cap threw everything he had at namor and namor didn't feel it, 1 hit from namor hurts cap severely. it's logical to assume that he can land more blows once he has momentum... since cap couldn't build any with his fists alone.... but the fact still reamins.. he got hit.
.About Cap, even when Namor was cocky and young, he STILL landed more blows on Cap then vice versa...when he was adult Cap landed zero blows...
Originally posted by DarkCrawleranother avengers issue..don't remember the issue number off hand but I'll find it this weakened.
.About Hercules which fight are you referring? The fight on the beach? Or the fight on the island where Namor was dehydrating? Or the fight underwater where Namor easily won? Or the one where Namor was sent by Zeus to hit Hercules.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerwrong.. the claws will be effective anywhere they land.. whereever they land will do damage and namor loses blood, strength and the functions of his hands, arms, legs.. etc etc etc...
.I'm not saying he is untouchable. But most attacks Wolverine would do would be ineffective against Namor who is taking the fight seriously and not fighting like an idiot. He IS Supreme Commander of a entire army. Only places he would be able to do any damage that would slow down Namor would be either stomach or neck.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerno I'm not.. but again. flight hasn't been that big a deal against daredevil, or cap, or bp, or hey WOLVERINE... all it does is make namor a gambler.
.And again, you are forgetting that he can fly.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerdid I respond directly to you? no... people were saying "wolverine fanboys" need to shut up in this threa, all I was doing was showing them that you don't need to be a wolverine fanboy to think that wolverine can win this fight hand to hand..
.I'm fine agreeing to disagree too. But if you post stuff, I logically assume that you want to debate... 😉
now again... I'm tired of having to dance this dance with you.. unless you can show me clear cut examples of namor being able to be completely unscathed or untouched when fighting somebody on wolverine's level, and you can show me this a number of times, I simply am not going to give any majority to namor in a hand to hand confrontation.. he needs to prove himself capible of doing that to be able to do it.. wolverine's proven himself capible of taking down and hanging with bricks ALL THE TIME... namor doesn't have proof that he can manhandle street levels ALL THE TIME, he hasn't proven he can reamain untouched ALL THE TIME... and he certainly hasn't proven he could take out logan ANY OF THE TIME... so where I'm concerned it's that simple.. and obviously agreeing to disagree is really the only choice we have considering you or I will never sway the other's opinion.. 😬
Originally posted by Accelhe was up and about IMMEDIATELY after the assault ended... he wasn't even off his feet by the end of it.. 😬 wolverine would have given simon a gut full of claw to think about had that continued...
He only shrugged it off because someone saved him from Wonderman’s beating, which gave him time to heal. If the attack continued, Wolverine would have still been on the receiving end of countless Class 100 blows (especially since Wonderman doesn’t tire) with no time to recover.
Originally posted by Accelno, i think they're DIFFERENT... their applications are different especially in comics.. they're really not comparible.
You think the adamantium claws of a street-leveler are more impressive than the gravity of a [b]black hole (which not even light can escape)? [/B]
Originally posted by Accelstrength isn't the issue here, durability is... wolverine can take more punishment than firelord has shown in terms of blunt force.. but firelord goes through black holes like it's a cakewalk.. does that mean wolverine can? no.. does that mean firelord can't be cut by wolverine? no..
Mainly by very high Class 100s such as Drax, Thor, Hercules and others that Wolverine doesn’t compare to in overall strength.
Originally posted by Accelnot at all.. i'm suggesting that the applications are different..
Right, a Sky-Father’s blasts are waaaaaayyy more impressive than terrifying than admantium claws. I hope you’re not suggesting otherwise. 😕
Originally posted by Accelgranted.. but what else do you want me to say? "PIS"?
So, speculation on your part now…
with admantium it's not that clear.. we've seen admantium blades from wolverine cut hulk, admantium coils from the constrictor and admantium barbs from speed freak have cut hulk as well.... adamantium tipped syringeshave broken through his skin too... there's far more evidence suggesting that pure admantium can go through hulk than the other way around... adamantium grading just happens to be the only reasonable explaination.
Originally posted by Accelit was though.. wolverine states that he only THOUGHT hulk's skin was impenitrable... he was reffering to their first confrontation...
I’m referring to the first incident wasn’t retconned. This was before Wolverine was written to stab through any thing (that was sarcasm on that last part, just FYI).
Originally posted by Accelnot really, I'm just getting rather annoyed by EVERYONE coming to descredit wolverine's feats regardless of where they happened, regaurdless if they're canon, regaurdless if they've been repeated.. etc etc etc...
Does that justify her taking down Wonderman in H2H?
Originally posted by Accelobviously... but to say he's weaker durability-wise than say regular thanos.. well that's just a stretch.. I simply don't think wolverine cut through him because "he was weaker" is a suitable brush off.
He still let them attack him; even though he showed at the very beginning he could simply freeze time and do away with them. Obviously, he wasn’t up to full status or no one would have laid a finer on him or even budged him when they attacked.
Originally posted by Accelagain concerning durability and the applications of different attacks have different effects.
Other wise, how else would you explain Wolverine stabbing someone who was supposed to be omniscient and could battle the likes of Eternity?
Originally posted by Accelokay that's just off, again, he's been nearly KOed by lazer fire, he got nearly koed by having an arm phased through him... I don't see him having that much of a better showing if he got ran through.. if there are feats to suggest otherwise, I'm open to a change of opinion.. but thus far, again, i haven't seen them.
Even if Wolverine stabbed him, so what? Simon proceeds to knock through a loop and continues to pummel him, all while carrying a stab wound. Considering the guy’s immortal and doesn’t require basic need slike most others, I doubt he’d be worse off than Wolverine there.
Originally posted by jinzin
he was up and about IMMEDIATELY after the assault ended... he wasn't even off his feet by the end of it.. 😬 wolverine would have given simon a gut full of claw to think about had that continued...
Originally posted by jinzin
no, i think they're DIFFERENT... their applications are different especially in comics.. they're really not comparible.
Originally posted by jinzin
strength isn't the issue here, durability is... wolverine can take more punishment than firelord has shown in terms of blunt force..
Originally posted by jinzin
but firelord goes through black holes like it's a cakewalk.. does that mean wolverine can? no.. does that mean firelord can't be cut by wolverine? no..
Originally posted by jinzin
not at all.. i'm suggesting that the applications are different..
when i went through this before.. there was plenty of scans showing thanos' durability vs. high grade blasts.. but not really any of him vs. peircing effeciency.. i think that there's a suitable difference between the two.
If Wolverine had Class 100 strength, I would see no problem with it. But he doesn’t. He has somewhat enhanced, typical street-leveler strength, so it doesn’t make sense.
Originally posted by jinzin
it was though.. wolverine it states that he only THOUGHT hulk's skin was impenitrable... he was reffering to their first confrontation...
Doesn’t mean he actually managed to cut Savage Hulk in his first appearance.
Originally posted by jinzin
not really, I'm just getting rather annoyed by EVERYONE coming to descredit wolverine's feats regardless of where they happened, regaurdless if they're canon, regaurdless if they've been repeated.. etc etc etc...
When Wolverine stabs Thanos w/ the IG, something isn’t right.
Originally posted by jinzin
obviously... but to say he's weaker durability-wise than say regular thanos.. well that's just a stretch.. I simply don't think wolverine cut through him because "he was weaker" is a suitable brush off.
His subconscious could very well have reduced his durability at certain points.
Originally posted by jinzin
okay that's just off, again, he's been nearly KOed by lazer fire, he got nearly koed by having an arm phased through him... I don't see him having that much of a better showing if he got ran through.. if there are feats to suggest otherwise, I'm open to a change of opinion.. but thus far, again, i haven't seen them.
It’s not in every one’s nature to fall to the ground whimpering after getting stabbed, especially for someone who doesn’t have basic needs like the rest of us. It takes serious damage just to keep Simon down. A stabbing is questionable at best.
Originally posted by jinzin
wrong, namor doesn't even come close to wolverine in brawling, he's been swarmed by 5 us troops and they were all over him, wolverine's fought a dozen hand without being even touched.. and fabrication: wolverine's far better at striking than namor....and no namor can't bursh off wolverine's blows with claws.. he gets hit with claws he goes down..
Why is it that low end feats only apply to you and you completely ignore every single high end feat Namor has? Yet, every time you say anything about Wolverine, you ALWAYS use Wolverine's higher end feats. Interesting. Namor has beaten hundreds of soldiers at once, far easier then Wolverine has.
Here is just one example. I am not even going to the WWII era.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2738/namorvsarmy9og.gif
Originally posted by jinzin
speculation... the armor was shredded into coils on the ground.. not chunks but coils... there's no evidence to support that there were more movements in scultoing a statue than there was in cutting off the armor period.
Umm...Wolverine has six claws on each hand...it kind of results to coils no matter how sparse his hand movements are.
Do you really want me to go search from the internet and see how many weeks it takes to sculpt an sculpture of that magnitude (from ANOTHER sculpture). A child could see that sculpting takes a lot, lot more hand movements.
Period.
Originally posted by jinzin
no I'm talking about these flyin pods that the danger room uses... gambit was shown bounding around themlike crazy and wolverine shrugged it off as child's play.
How does that compare in jumping from meteor to meteor, when the LOWEST speed meteors are recorded of moving is Mach 32?
Originally posted by jinzin
in their first fight he was capible of keeping up with torch, but he was amazed he missed cap.. funny...
Err. You can kind of see that Torch isn't normal human. Cap just looks like a guy dressed in American flag until you try to punch him.
Originally posted by jinzin
he wasn't really brainwashed, he was being controlled (like a video game character). so yeah there was really no reason for him to be slower.
Because we all know that Controller genius in utilizing other peoples powers to their fullest...😂
Originally posted by jinzin
not in the face.. maybe that's why.. or maybe it's because wolverine will stab him.. AGAIN... that' why he has to fight flawless.
Unless he totally hits through the eyes to the brain, he isn't doing any damage that he could shrug off.
Originally posted by jinzin
oh please.. did you just say pain as never bothered namor? WOW.. that's just.... wow.... 😬
...
We are talking about a man with such magnitude of willpower that he was THE ONLY living creature Doctor Doom had to prep against when he tried to control every being of the world mentally...
Pain does nada to him.
Originally posted by jinzin
first off, when wolverine stabbed namor in wolvie 45, he stabbed him straight through...the claws had to go through clavicles, scapulas, the high ribs, or a combination thereof to do that... so there's very little to suggest that wolverine can't cut namor's bones.. and even if you're right.. so what? namor still loses the function and/or strength of that limb..
Or he just stabbed through the openings that were in the ribs and under the scapulas...look at the angle.
And one slash hardly takes the usage of his limbs away.
Originally posted by jinzin
bull, he doesn't go seriously against thing? tiger shark? the hulk?
no you're just reaching...
hulk clobbers on him in every fight they have for god's sakes.
and in a large majority of those fight namor loses his temper and attacks the hero first.. and he STILL gets hit.. 😬
When he DOES go seriously against Thing, he knocks him out in two or one hits. When he DOES go against Tiger Shark seriously, the guy is beaten in three or one panel. He has had two fights against Hulk on land, on the first one he STATED that he needed to rely on his speed on the last page, and on the second fight, Hulk only landed one blow, and even that was surprise blow. Namor, on the other hand landed eight. That is hell of a lot more impressive then anything Wolverine has ever accomplished against Hulk.
And on underwater fights...Namor owns, plain and simple.
Originally posted by jinzin
good for him... too bad knowing that much won't make much difference.. when wolverine starts landing blows they're going to beeffective no matter where they land.
Yeah they would be effective if Namor would just stand there. When he is constantly moving, Wolverine's slashes simply won't go very deep.
Originally posted by jinzin
and again wolverine only needs to land one blow and continue.. 🙄
It's just that Namor can still move after the first one. Wolverine can't.
Originally posted by jinzin
who cares if namor was younger? captain america was green as hell.. it was his first noteable action against a super human for god sakes..
Younger, which means cocky, which means not thinking fully...
And that was far from Cap's first mission, and he had had training before that, plus he wasn't near as arrogant as Namor was.
Originally posted by jinzin
oh by the way...wrong:
http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048142ve.jpg
'cause he was totally on his right mind there...
Originally posted by jinzin
wrong:http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica181029hd.jpg
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica181030ey.jpg
One blow...with Namor's back turned on him.
Originally posted by jinzin
oh and wrong:
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=141ta.jpg
That's the only fight where he lands straight blow on him without him being mindcontrolled or young...and even there Namor is hardly using his full speed. What speed is he flying against him? 50 mph?
Originally posted by jinzin
because you were disengenuinely representing them.
Different points from different parts of Logan's life.
All had the same result, no matter in what condition he was.
Originally posted by jinzin
shock 😂 AAAANNNNNNND that would be the sound of you losing credibility...
Show me where he is stabbing Class 100 who is going all out on him with no intentions of stopping...WHILE he is being punched.
Originally posted by jinzin
you mean like a class 100 would be unable to do anything unless logan stopped stabbing them?
A stab and a punch that shatters mountains are extremely different.
Originally posted by jinzin
not really. the ACTUAL representation of namor isn't a weaker one, it's just the ne that exists..
Actual Namor is low-end feat Namor, actual Wolverine is the highest end Wolverine possible?
Originally posted by jinzin
I'll look for the first.. for the second. he hit him... clearly namor's not out of cap's league to be hit.. he got behind namor by dodging another speedy assault...
Speedy assault my ass. He is just running towards him. If he would have gone with speed, he would have flew...
Actually, on the next page he did. What happened?
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica181030ey.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
not namor?you're about that he was far better than namor, he put down torch and namor in a matter of seconds... and he sapped namors very own strength not to mention the fact that he was using his electrical currents against cap.. and we only see three hits but the story implies that the fight was longer than that.
Sucking out Namor's water and blasting Human Torch with it hardly puts him above Namor in anything else then vampirism.
And he didn't use electricity...he used the water he had absorbed earlier.
And the story still doesn't imply particularly long timespan and even if it would, N2 was clearly much, much, much weaker then Namor.
Originally posted by jinzin
you mean like sorceror supreme doesn't fight like the hu--- oh my bad i didn't mean to kill your argument on that one lol.
Because you need hell of a lot of fighting skill to fight as Hulk...
I could fight BETTER then Hulk.
Originally posted by jinzin
avengers 117 I think.
The issue where Namor didn't even want to fight against Cap but let Cap decide what it would be...? 🤨
The same issue wher Cap said that his only advantage was surprise and battle skill?
And where Namor could have killed Cap (twice) but instead left him by himself...
Yeah, totally going all out again.
Originally posted by jinzin
underwater, not the same as on the land.. you know.. where namor fought them 3 more times.. and DIDN'T outspeed them whatsoever. ?
Because it's not like LAVA men can cause dehydration at all...🤨
Originally posted by jinzin
when he was adult, he still got grounded by cap (idn't namor start that by the way) and then after that it wasn't a hand to hand really... when he was young.. uhhh yeah.. it was caps first noteable with a superhuman on namor's level... cap threw everything he had at namor and namor didn't feel it, 1 hit from namor hurts cap severely. it's logical to assume that he can land more blows once he has momentum... since cap couldn't build any with his fists alone.... but the fact still reamins.. he got hit.
He got hit because he didn't use speed at all because he was young. He was cocky. He can think now. He is 85 years old. Supreme Commander. He will dodge if neccessary, and again...he has already done so. Against threats that can actually kill him, unlike Cap. I don't really see why he ever would go all out against Cap, or even bother to use his speed against him. He doesn't need to.
Originally posted by jinzin
another avengers issue..don't remember the issue number off hand but I'll find it this weakened.
Ok.
Originally posted by jinzin
wrong.. the claws will be effective anywhere they land.. whereever they land will do damage and namor loses blood, strength and the functions of his hands, arms, legs.. etc etc etc...
And it would take Wolverine very long time to get him in state where it would hinder him unless he hits places like stomach...and in order to do that it would require Namor to not fight back at all...
Originally posted by jinzin
no I'm not.. but again. flight hasn't been that big a deal against daredevil, or cap, or bp, or hey WOLVERINE... all it does is make namor a gambler.
Because only time he has used flight ever against any of those opponents, he has hovered above them.
Originally posted by jinzin
did I respond directly to you? no... people were saying "wolverine fanboys" need to shut up in this threa, all I was doing was showing them that you don't need to be a wolverine fanboy to think that wolverine can win this fight hand to hand..
No you don't...you just need to really underestimate Namor and focus on his low showings...
Originally posted by jinzin
now again... I'm tired of having to dance this dance with you.. unless you can show me clear cut examples of namor being able to be completely unscathed or untouched when fighting somebody on wolverine's level, and you can show me this a number of times, I simply am not going to give any majority to namor in a hand to hand confrontation.. he needs to prove himself capible of doing that to be able to do it.. wolverine's proven himself capible of taking down and hanging with bricks ALL THE TIME... namor doesn't have proof that he can manhandle street levels ALL THE TIME, he hasn't proven he can reamain untouched ALL THE TIME... and he certainly hasn't proven he could take out logan ANY OF THE TIME... so where I'm concerned it's that simple.. and obviously agreeing to disagree is really the only choice we have considering you or I will never sway the other's opinion.. 😬
Actually, Namor can manhandle street levels when he wants to, and he has done so. In most of their fights, he is playing with them. Read the speech bubbles.
And he doesn't need to be completely unscathed, he just needs to protect couple of vital areas. Wolverine has no way of doing anything against any attack of Namor. One punch, and he is done if Namor continues straight away, etc, like this.
http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat844js.gif
http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat853hz.gif
And apparently, since we are only using fights against other characters, Wolverine is at the level that he gets hit by Hulk even more times then Namor (thus making him slower if we are using your logic).
Hey, let's compare their fights, just for fun.
Wolverine VS Hulk - Wolverine #145
Pages: 10
Hits Hulk lands on Wolverine: 9 (no sneak attacks, one hit used with object)
Hits Wolverine lands on Hulk: 5 (One sneak attack, two with Hulk's own momentum used against him)
Condition of Hulk's opponent: Losing conciousness on the last points of battle, only winning because Hulk uses his own momentum to stab himself in neck accidentally.
Then,
Namor Vs Hulk - Defenders #52
Pages: 6
Hits Hulk lands on Namor: 5 (Two sneak attacks used in the beginning of the fight)
Hits Namor lands on Hulk: 5 (No sneak attacks, no objects, one electricity hit)
Condition of Hulk's opponent: No damage at all. Only using his speed in the last moment, as stated on panel.
I can scan the pages too if you want.
Originally posted by riceroost
Ha!!! Wolverine killed the hell out of Namor in What If?: AOA. Stabbed him right through the head and out the eye sockets. Priceless. Even better than the time USAgent had to come save the day.
I pity the fools who are still arguing on Wolverine's ability to keep up with Class 100 guys with invulnerability when it's well knowed he's backed up from the writers major need of PIS and CIS for granting him good showings.
It's a pity seeing someone like jinzin arguing like this for a character who nowdays has become a pushover who goes beyond any logic.
Firelord is above Spider-Man, who defeated him cause the writer wanted a good show from Spidey, just that.
Wolverine, can't beat Namor.Namor has strength, durability, reflexes and speed above him.Namor can punch out Logan with one blow.Hercules can do the same.Same can WM.Wolverine is just a walking pushover.The Wrecker while fighting the NA throwed him away like a rag doll, and that's what should happen when Logan fight someone with over Class 40 strength and a decent amount of superhuman durability.
Wolverine's claws and their ability to slice or pierce are one of the major bullshit in history of comics.
