Namor, The Sub-Mariner vs Wolverine

Started by jinzin163 pages
Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so a keyhole has enhanced reflexes and a pair of legs? Great comparison. I think im done now.

you missed his point entirely.. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
you missed his point entirely.. 😐

O god here we go again! Cap is a moving target, you need fast reflexes to hit a target with fast reflexes. What so you dont need fast reflexes to punch a fast opponent either?

A: hey namor is fast because he can punch Cap.
B: That doesnt prove anything *punches a wall* look im Captain America!

Originally posted by Alfheim
O god here we go again! Cap is a moving target, you need fast reflexes to hit a target with fast reflexes.

Not if you're throwing something at them... you just need to be accurate.. which was again.. the point. 😐

Originally posted by Alfheim
What so you dont need fast reflexes to punch a fast opponent either?

A: hey namor is fast because he can punch Cap.
B: That doesnt prove anything *punches a wall* look im Captain America!

Punching someone up close would equate to a number of different factors including skill, set ups and sheer speed... so no you don't have to have fast reflexes to hit an opponent with a punch...

But you weren't talking about punching Cap.. at least not in relation to Cresh's argument.. He's belittling you because you're talking about throwing things at Cap.

Originally posted by jinzin
Not if you're throwing something at them... you just need to be accurate.. which was again.. the point. 😐

And what skills does accuracy consist of when trying to hit a moving target which is trying to dodge you?

Originally posted by jinzin

Punching someone up close would equate to a number of different factors including skill, set ups and sheer speed... so no you don't have to have fast reflexes to hit an opponent with a punch...

Of course you dont have to have fast reflexes to hit SOMEBODY with a punch, buit you do need fast reflexes to hit somebody who has enhanced reflexes. Who has a better chance of hitting Cap Luke Cage or Spiderman?

Originally posted by jinzin

But you weren't talking about punching Cap.. at least not in relation to Cresh's argument.. He's belittling you because you're talking about throwing things at Cap.

Im relating punching to throwing both actvities involve trying to hit a target with enhanced reflexes. Let me guess your going to tell that their both different and not see the similarity.

Originally posted by Alfheim
And what skills does accuracy consist of when trying to hit a moving target which is trying to dodge you?
Predicting where the target is going to be and throwing it there so they moveinto the path of th e thrown object. It doesn't require speed. Just accuracy.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Of course you dont have to have fast reflexes to hit SOMEBODY with a punch, buit you do need fast reflexes to hit somebody who has enhanced reflexes. Who has a better chance of hitting Cap Luke Cage or Spiderman?
No, again you don't need "fast reflexes" to hit someone with "fast reflexes" just need to predict where they're going to move and move your fists to where they're going to be. Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about fighting?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im relating punching to throwing both actvities involve trying to hit a target with enhanced reflexes. Let me guess your going to tell that their both different and not see the similarity.
No, hitting something doesn't require speed. Comic book characters dodge bullets. You need acuracy. Comic book characters with skill hit other comic book characters who are fast due to skill, its how slower characters can hit the faster moving ones, by predictingwhere they're going to be and getting the attack there in time.

Being able to throw an object well doesn't require any more speed than it takes to launch the object.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Predicting where the target is going to be and throwing it there so they moveinto the path of th e thrown object. It doesn't require speed. Just accuracy.

It doesnt require speed? Oh right so if it was travelling at 1 mile per hours do you think the object would hit Captain America????

Oh I see. So just because you know that something is going to move in a certain dircetion guarantees that your going to hit the target?

Thats funny I remember DD saying that "I knew what Spiderman was able to do but I wanst able to doge his punch"

Originally posted by Creshosk

No, again you don't need "fast reflexes" to hit someone with "fast reflexes" just need to predict where they're going to move and move your fists to where they're going to be. Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about fighting?

That can work in some circumstances but so that means that everytime somebody throw a punch at somebody and it connect its ONLY because he knew where his opponet was going to be its not because he had faster reflexes? I guess the reason why Mohammed Ali was able to hit Foreman so many times is because he knew where Foreman was going to go? Have you seen that fight Mohamed Ali hit Foreman because he was faster.

Have you actually do any sparring before?

Originally posted by Creshosk

No, hitting something doesn't require speed. Comic book characters dodge bullets. You need acuracy. Comic book characters with skill hit other comic book characters who are fast due to skill, its how slower characters can hit the faster moving ones, by predictingwhere they're going to be and getting the attack there in time.

What does namor have slower reflexes than Cap, no. Ok thats the end of that.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Being able to throw an object well doesn't require any more speed than it takes to launch the object.

Well anyway your point has been refuted anyway.

Furthermore using your argument I could say the samething about dodging. You dont need fast reflexes to dodge just be able to predict when the the person is going to fire or throw a punch. Hell Cap can see bullets in slow motion...so yeah he'll be able to predict when a bullet is coming.

Hell when DD comes up against top tier fighters and he knows what they're going to do that doesnt stop his opponents from blocking or doding his punches that because despite the fcat he has radar sense he doesnt have superior reflexes.

So basically even if you know something is going to happen you still need good reflexes if your reflexes are vatsly superior you still wont hit them.

Originally posted by Alfheim
It doesnt require speed? Oh right so if it was travelling at 1 mile per hours do you think the object would hit Captain America????
A strawman is an invalid argument.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh I see. So just because you know that something is going to move in a certain dircetion guarantees that your going to hit the target?
I never said anything about guarantees. But it helps to improve your chances of hitting them.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats funny I remember DD saying that "I knew what Spiderman was able to do but I wanst able to doge his punch"
Yeah, cause there's also a difference between knowing something and being able to do something about it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
That can work in some circumstances but so that means that everytime somebody throw a punch at somebody and it connect its ONLY because he knew where his opponet was going to be its not because he had faster reflexes?
Again with the strawman argument. You must be getting desperate that's three times now. Can you not argue without exagerating the other person's claims?

Originally posted by Alfheim
I guess the reason why Mohammed Ali was able to hit Foreman so many times is because he knew where Foreman was going to go?
It certainly help, don't you think?

Fighters learn to predict their opponents movements. It's not about swinging randomly as fast as you can and hope you hit.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Have you seen that fight Mohamed Ali hit Foreman because he was faster.
Have you seen that fight wolverine hit speed freak cause he was faster... oh wait...

Originally posted by Alfheim
Have you actually do any sparring before?
Yes, and it's obvious you don't.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What does namor have slower reflexes than Cap, no. Ok thats the end of that.
begging the question isn't it?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well anyway your point has been refuted anyway.
No it hasn't. Yours has. It's clear you're no fighter, and don't know a thing about fighting.

Swing as fast as you can and hope you hit... cause we know that aim and predicting the other person has nothing to do with it. 🙄

Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore using your argument I could say the samething about dodging. You dont need fast reflexes to dodge just be able to predict when the the person is going to fire or throw a punch.
So people who dodge lasers are as fast as lasers, and people who dodge bullets are as fast as bullets. 🙄

Yeah, your arguments are pure unadulterated crap.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Have you actually done any sparring before?

thinking the same thing

Originally posted by Creshosk
So people who dodge lasers are as fast as lasers, and people who dodge bullets are as fast as bullets. 🙄

Yeah, your arguments are pure unadulterated crap.

if they dodge after the laser or bullet is fired, then yes, they are faster....in fact, they have to be faster

Originally posted by masterbruce
if they dodge after the laser or bullet is fired, then yes, they are faster....in fact, they have to be faster
And everyone who dodges bullets is doing so after they are fired?

By this same reasoning Wolverine has superspeed as he's tagged speedsters and cut bullets out of the air... AFTER it was fired.

Do you really want Wolverine to be faster than a speeding bullet?

Originally posted by Creshosk
And everyone who dodges bullets is doing so after they are fired?

By this same reasoning Wolverine has superspeed as he's tagged speedsters and cut bullets out of the air... AFTER it was fired.

Do you really want Wolverine to be faster than a speeding bullet?

no, I don't

personally I think all the feats of Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, etc dodging bullets after they're fired are just instances of writers not taking laws of physics and their character's abilities seriously and should not be used as feats...but most disagree with me

Originally posted by Creshosk
Do you really want Wolverine to be faster than a speeding bullet?

Of course. awesome

Originally posted by Creshosk
A strawman is an invalid argument.

Its not a strawman you said that you dont need speed to hit a target accurately. If you cant see how illogical that is I cant help you.

Originally posted by Creshosk

I never said anything about guarantees. But it helps to improve your chances of hitting them.

Nah...you dont say but obvoulsy you still need reflexes.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Yeah, cause there's also a difference between knowing something and being able to do something about it.

Yes and the reason why DD wasnt able to dodge Spiderman was because his reflexes werent fast enough.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Again with the strawman argument. You must be getting desperate that's three times now. Can you not argue without exagerating the other person's claims?

Well the reason why im exaggerating is because im wondering why you are bringing this point up. You are making it sound like reflexes are not important, now agree predicting helps but you still need reflexes because even if you know what you're opponent is going to do you still need to be fast enough to hit them. DD knows what his opponent is going to do next but he still needs fast reflexes.

Originally posted by Creshosk

It certainly help, don't you think?

No, no, no, no, no, no. Mohammed ali hit Foreman so many times beacuse he was faster. When you're faster you dont need to predict anything.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Fighters learn to predict their opponents movements. It's not about swinging randomly as fast as you can and hope you hit.

Now you're exaggertaing what im saying. If you have good reflexes you dont swing widly you are able to hit your opponent accurately. Oh so the alterantive to not ebing able to predict your opponet is swinging widly? 🤨

Originally posted by Creshosk

Have you seen that fight wolverine hit speed freak cause he was faster... oh wait...

Yes I think I have actually. Where Wolverine predicting where he was going to go so he hit him , that does not apply to every single case. Hell thats the argument I use for Punisher hitting superhumans.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Yes, and it's obvious you don't.

No its not obvious and of course ive bloody done sparring or I woulndt have asked you. Oh I see everytime you tried to go for a punch you were able to predict were your oppponet was going next....wow.

Originally posted by Creshosk

begging the question isn't it?

Namor is at least as fast as Cap or Wolverine.

Originally posted by Creshosk

No it hasn't. Yours has. It's clear you're no fighter, and don't know a thing about fighting.

What so you're a martial art expert now? Dont you have some illness where your really weak and thin.?

Originally posted by Creshosk

Swing as fast as you can and hope you hit... cause we know that aim and predicting the other person has nothing to do with it. 🙄

Yeah because of if you cant predict where your opponent is going to go next the alternative is swinging wildly is not because your reflexes make you fast enough to hit your opponent. 🙄

Even if you can predict where yoour opponet is going next you still need to have fast reflexes so your point doesnt change anything. If DD had crap reflexes he woulndt be able to bat bullets.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So people who dodge lasers are as fast as lasers, and people who dodge bullets are as fast as bullets. 🙄

Thats not even the point I was trying to make. They can dodge becauser they have fast reflexes hell the reason why Cap sees bullets in slow motion is because of his reflexes.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Yeah, your arguments are pure unadulterated crap.

You didnt even get the point I was trying to make.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its not a strawman you said that you dont need speed to hit a target accurately. If you cant see how illogical that is I cant help you.
an exageration of another person's argument is strawman. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Nah...you dont say but obvoulsy you still need reflexes.
I think you might be using the wrong term.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes and the reason why DD wasnt able to dodge Spiderman was because his reflexes werent fast enough.
Which has what to do with the aim of throwing an object? Oh that's right none.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well the reason why im exaggerating is because
You can't counter the actual point, so you have to change my words, thus making them not my words, in order to counter them.

Originally posted by Alfheim
im wondering why you are bringing this point up. You are making it sound like reflexes are not important, now agree predicting helps but you still need reflexes because even if you know what you're opponent is going to do you still need to be fast enough to hit them. DD knows what his opponent is going to do next but he still needs fast reflexes.
Is DD namor or wolverine?

Originally posted by Alfheim
No, no, no, no, no, no. Mohammed ali hit Foreman so many times beacuse he was faster. When you're faster you dont need to predict anything.
Yeah just randomly swing and hope you hit. 🙄

"you dont need to predict anything."

Originally posted by Alfheim
Now you're exaggertaing what im saying.
No I'm not:

"you dont need to predict anything."

Originally posted by Alfheim
If you have good reflexes you dont swing widly you are able to hit your opponent accurately. Oh so the alterantive to not ebing able to predict your opponet is swinging widly? 🤨
🤨 ios right you're making no sense mr "you don't need to predict anything."

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes I think I have actually. Where Wolverine predicting where he was going to go so he hit him , that does not apply to every single case. Hell thats the argument I use for Punisher hitting superhumans.
Right which is why "you don't need to predict anything"
Originally posted by Alfheim
No its not obvious
Yeah it is obvious.

Originally posted by Alfheim
and of course ive bloody done sparring
Oh, now you're going to lie to me. Great!

Originally posted by Alfheim
or I woulndt have asked you. Oh I see everytime you tried to go for a punch you were able to predict were your oppponet was going next....wow.
🙄

Originally posted by Alfheim
Namor is at least as fast as Cap or Wolverine.

What so you're a martial art expert now? Dont you have some illness where your really weak and thin.?

Don't you have one where you're really stupid?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah because of if you cant predict where your opponent is going to go next the alternative is swinging wildly is not because your reflexes make you fast enough to hit your opponent. 🙄
You fail at sarcasm mr "you don't need to predict anything".

Originally posted by Alfheim
Even if you can predict where yoour opponet is going next you still need to have fast reflexes so your point doesnt change anything. If DD had crap reflexes he woulndt be able to bat bullets.
🙄

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not even the point I was trying to make. They can dodge becauser they have fast reflexes hell the reason why Cap sees bullets in slow motion is because of his reflexes.
And this has what to do with throwing a sheild?

Funny how he can see bullets in slow motion but a thrown sheild which is slower gives him trouble.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You didnt even get the point I was trying to make.
That's cause you suck at making points. It's probably that illness that makes you stupid.

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's cause you suck at making points. It's probably that illness that makes you stupid.

😆 🤣

Originally posted by Creshosk

Oh, now you're going to lie to me. Great!

Wow so because you tell me that I havnet done any sparring and I told you I have means im lying? Wow.

Yes but you actually said that you have illness that makes you really frial and so I dont see how you got to to have so much sparring experience when your not even in physical conidtion to so...hell you even said in one thread you dont even have the strength to throw some women. Maybe it happened after you did your sparring. 😐

Anyway even if you can predict where your opponent is going you still need fsat reflexes.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes but you actually said that you have illness that makes you really frial and so I dont see how you got to to have so much sparring experience. Maybe it happened after you did your sparring. 😐
Or maybe I never said I had a sickness that makes me frail... Well it's nice that you admitted you have an illness that makes you stupid

This has turned into bashing on both ends. I am going to ask it to be closed for a day or two.