Namor, The Sub-Mariner vs Wolverine

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You never really explained to me how the same would not apply to Wolverine.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And when Namor hit Wolverine, he was not chucked away, even though he weighs three times less then Hulk.

so you ASSUME he was holding back.. but ignore the FACT that he used a plot device to fight wolverine with on both occassions... hmmm

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor is not faster in water in anything else then swimming speed...
I know it, I have read quite a lot comics with Namor on them. .

so I have to go on good faith...

do you have detailed info that describes this.. descriptions taking into consideration the upgrades and downgrades he goes through in and out of water?

But can sometimes.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
A question. If there would be a forum fight with Captain Cold VS Flash, would you say that Cpt. Cold wins? Because he has hit flash before....

no.. but I have to leave open the possibility that captain cold can hit flash..

if captain cold has done so consistently it's harder to argue against... but that's an extreme difference in speed between flash and namor...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Not speculation. Full power hit from Namor sends Hulk flying,
Hulk's weight >> Wolverine's weight
Wolverine is not sent flying by the force of punch,
Conclusion: Namor was not hitting him with near to full power.
It's strange that you can't grasp simple concepts like these.......

amazing that you can't grasp simple concepts like the fact that people are not sent flying in brick fights ALL THE TIME.... you have a couple scans of hulk airborne and you think that changes the fact that people don't go airborne all the time? pffft.. hell anytime thanos fights people SHOULD be sent flying literally miles and miles.. but hey whatyaknow.. ss isn't going anywhere... hmmm odd.. I bet thanos is holdin back> 😱 or not...
the fact is that namor resorted to grab a bat to hit wolverine with... was he still holding back even though he was forced to resort to using a weapon? that doesn't sound very valid at all....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6735/namornotdodging6ks.gif
If that looks like a man trying to dodge, you need to check your eyes.

you act as if he didn't try.. but evidence suggests otherwise.. in both fights namor suffers glancing blows that cut his skin but don't gut him.. we KNOW wolverine can gut namor, and things of equal or greater durability... so his durability wasn't deflecting the blades or reducing the cut.. thus it must have been namor getting partially out of the way.. thus he WAS trying to avoid the claws strikes... it just didn't help much when in brawl mode with wolverine...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Funny...for some reason Namor felt like he could take a full stab from Wolverine's claws...even though he has faced him before....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[url]"It's not stated anywhere it's not there".
Hey, that grass is green!
"Sorry, captions don't state it, it's not there."
"Hey, Namor has black jacket!"
"Sorry, captions don't state it, it's not there."
"Hey, Wolverine is not flying back from that punch, even though Namor's punches have sen Hulk fly back easily! He must not be hitting Wolverine with full power!"
"Sorry, captions don't state it, it's not there."....

you're trying to evade the point...

not only do captions not state it.. but namor does an action that completely contradicts the very idea of holding back.. again.. would you grab a bat to fight someone if you wanted to hold back? 🤨

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[url]Been here a year longer then you...yes, yes I am....

"you can practice martial arts all your life but if you never practice the right way"

no DC, I know you can argue.. but are you not familiar with the various methods of debate and philosphy? your questions would seem to imply you not to be..

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[url][url]http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1018/namordodgingwolv0hq.gif....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Your observation is not correct....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Just came back fighting Hylth'ri and saving Iron Fist...plus was suffering from anti-mutant virus that robbed him of his wings among other things...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And had their skill to do anything with it?

Was it classic (175 mph) or upgraded Quicksilver?

yes actually... to both but wolverine.. that was classic...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Alright, Namor can move his fists/legs faster then human eye can register...

Or can it register Mach speeds?

can you register a jet?

Maybe six-ten hours...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The rifle bullet speed, or Namor's hand/leg moving speed?
Is the Weapon X rifle bullet speed documented?

namor's hand and leg speed..

and no...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor hasn't really tried, to be honest.

On their first encounter, he didn't even hit near full power...

On the second, he attempted to talk peacefully to a man who had just murdered one of his friends...😕

first he grabs a tree to hit wolverine with.. there was NO indication that he was holding back..

second same damned thing.. and ermmmm he seemed to let his fists do the talking there... 😕

Originally posted by Warmonger
Travel speed doesn't neccasrily transfer to fighting speed in comics, otherwise cannonball would be a speedster too.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He leapt from meteor to meteor. Meteors move with Mach 32-Mach 221...Namor can't fly THAT fast.

And still, you need to move your hands with VERY fast speeds to catch missiles.

I can anticipate where a bullet is going...am I fast enough to catch it...

No.

Just pictures of Namor's speed...

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5183/namorfeat660vq.gif
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/9686/namorspeedfeat361ma.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/7674/avengers003173hf.jpg
http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/8904/namorfeat266tn.gif
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3664/namorfeat31lb.gif
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6544/namorfeat302xn.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1133/namorfeat341pp.gif
http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat795ut.gif
http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat808ne.gif
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8859/namorspeedfeat304sm.gif
http://s7.imagehosting.us/uploadpoint/imagehosting_upload_storage/nouser_1012/T0_-1_1012481.gif
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8356/namorspeedfeat326rf.gif
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1905/namorspeedfeat339wr.gif
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5295/namorspeedfeat342ky.gif
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7492/namorspeedfeat352fg.gif

Don't know about your meteor traveling speeds, but soundslike a case of bad writing. Either way he would have to be moving exponentially faster than the moving meteor it self and muhc faster than any speed he has ever displayed since or then.

Also you aren't a comic book character. Even the human ones do thigns that are pretty much impossble by real world standards. Look at daredevil, he can bat away abullet. Like I said give him super stength and he can catch one.

All treavleling speeds. Except for the ones with the rays, which doesn't seem like something an exceptionally trained "comic book human" could dodge.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Catching missles conisdering that most are going in a predictable line. That sounds like it had more to do with strentgh and duravility and the ability to fly. I mean guys like Cyclops and Wolverine dodge bullets and laser fire by anticipating where they are going to shoot and moving. If they were as strong and durable as Namor they could probalby catch em.

Also Namor cna fly rather fast so going form meteor to metor probably displays his flying speed more than anything.

✅

Originally posted by Warmonger
Yes but Namor isn't Human and real world physics only go so far, I mean hell for all we know those little wings o his feet are the reason he swims so fast. Conisder his flight speed and his massive strentgh and his quasi mystical nature I do't think namor swims purely on phyiscs alone.

punk

I like this guy.. 🙂

I mean the ability to travle through water seems to be no different thatn the ability to travle through air. In Most of the pics namor isn't evne moving his body that much. I mean superman sticks out his hands when he flies forwards but I doubt that has anything to do with it.

Originally posted by Warmonger
I mean the ability to travle through water seems to be no different thatn the ability to travle through air. In Most of the pics namor isn't evne moving his body that much. I mean superman sticks out his hands when he flies forwards but I doubt that has anything to do with it.

Faster then any Atlantean before he had wings:

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/2033/swimmingfaster4rg.gif

They appeared later:

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/3946/newfoundpower7wl.gif

The thing about the wings was joke merely to illustratethat we don't understand what it is that make Namors swim fast. And form the looks of the scans neither does he...

Originally posted by Warmonger
The thing about the wings was joke merely to illustratethat we don't understand what it is that make Namors swim fast. And form the looks of the scans neither does he...

I understand what makes Namor swim faster...

Normal Atlanteans are adapted to undersea life...they are stronger and faster then normal humans and can swim with 30 MPH...about six times faster then fastest human swimming speed. Namor is mutated Atlantean, one to the extreme, and can swim MUCH faster then normal Atlantean. The normal laws of physics still apply to both Atlanteans and Namor, they can just do everything better then humans.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Don't know about your meteor traveling speeds, but soundslike a case of bad writing. Either way he would have to be moving exponentially faster than the moving meteor it self and muhc faster than any speed he has ever displayed since or then.

He gained momentum from jumping from a water tank...I think I posted the pictures for jinzin, but here they are again:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614044285.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614061841.jpg&s=x11
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat816ym.gif

He was able to keep that momentum going and leap from meteor to meteor.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Also you aren't a comic book character. Even the human ones do thigns that are pretty much impossble by real world standards. Look at daredevil, he can bat away abullet. Like I said give him super stength and he can catch one.

Daredevil is not normal human. His senses probably give him ability to react to an bullet.

Originally posted by Warmonger
All treavleling speeds. Except for the ones with the rays, which doesn't seem like something an exceptionally trained "comic book human" could dodge.

And Namor can dodge things like that under incredible pressure.

Originally posted by jinzin
why should I have to? I never said it didn't apply to wolverine.. 🤨

But you seem to think so, since you constantly argue that Wolverine could not be sent by by Namor's punches.

It's simple. If he can send Hulk flying, he can do the same to Wolverine.

If Hulk, who is three times heavier then Wolverine flys back etc. twenty meters, Wolverine, when hit with the same force, flys back sixty or so.

Basic laws of physics...which do apply in the boards.

Originally posted by jinzin
so you ASSUME he was holding back.. but ignore the FACT that he used a plot device to fight wolverine with on both occassions... hmmm

Didn't send Wolverine flying = Didn't hit him at full power = Was holding back.

Silver Surfer could easily beat down people he fights with hands, but he uses his blasts. Sasquatch could do the same, but he still resorts using trees. Hulk does the same against people he could easily defeat by punching them alone.

Just because Namor uses trees, it means that he could not defeat Wolverine without them?

...despite the fact that one kick from Namor put him on the ground...

Maybe he wanted to finish it fast.

Originally posted by jinzin
so I have to go on good faith...

do you have detailed info that describes this.. descriptions taking into consideration the upgrades and downgrades he goes through in and out of water?

But can sometimes.

If he can hit fast in the pressure, he can hit faster when there is no pressure. Once again, simple laws of physics. Now, that he is straight out of water, he should hit pretty damn fast.

Originally posted by jinzin
no.. but I have to leave open the possibility that captain cold can hit flash..

if captain cold has done so consistently it's harder to argue against... but that's an extreme difference in speed between flash and namor...

Captain Cold has done it consistently. Flash has moved with speeds beyond human tracking consistently, in fact, about every comic he is in. That is exactly why we shouldn't take direct fights between two characters in here...the stronger ones are usually downplayed there.

Originally posted by jinzin
amazing that you can't grasp simple concepts like the fact that people are not sent flying in brick fights ALL THE TIME.... you have a couple scans of hulk airborne and you think that changes the fact that people don't go airborne all the time? pffft.. hell anytime thanos fights people SHOULD be sent flying literally miles and miles.. but hey whatyaknow.. ss isn't going anywhere... hmmm odd.. I bet thanos is holdin back> 😱 or not...
the fact is that namor resorted to grab a bat to hit wolverine with... was he still holding back even though he was forced to resort to using a weapon? that doesn't sound very valid at all....

On this fight, where laws of physics apply, Wolverine is, I'm afraid, sent back by a force that topples ships and knocks out the Hulk. He only weighs three hundred pounds, not three thousand hundred pounds. 😬

A force that can move multi-thousand ships, will move Wolverine.

Namor can and has hit with force that moves etc. fifty ton tanks, Hulk, battleships, fighter jets...

He was hitting Wolverine, and Wolverine was not moved back.

Conclusion: He was not hitting Wolverine with the same force, thus, holding back...

Simple laws of physics. Can you grasp them?

Originally posted by jinzin
apparently so do you... there's no clear indication that he wasn't trying to move out of the way. we do see him in a fighting stance so he was preparing for a fight... he still gets stabbed but...

you act as if he didn't try.. but evidence suggests otherwise.. in both fights namor suffers glancing blows that cut his skin but don't gut him.. we KNOW wolverine can gut namor, and things of equal or greater durability... so his durability wasn't deflecting the blades or reducing the cut.. thus it must have been namor getting partially out of the way.. thus he WAS trying to avoid the claws strikes... it just didn't help much when in brawl mode with wolverine...

assuming he wasn't trying.. you can't know one way or the other.. but evidence seems to suggest otherwise...

He was not trying to move out of way. He was still standing in the same place when Wolverine stabbed him. Wolverine did not even stab him at first, he ripped open the oil tank. When he stabbed Namor, he was still on same place.

Again, it's pretty clear the he was not even trying...

Originally posted by jinzin
you're trying to evade the point...

not only do captions not state it.. but namor does an action that completely contradicts the very idea of holding back.. again.. would you grab a bat to fight someone if you wanted to hold back? 🤨

The first blow might have been a warning blow. You can see that Namor is not really not fighting near full rage there...it seemed that he was trying to not hurt Wolverine much.

First, Wolverine attacks. Namor tries to hold his hands off (you can see that in the first page).

Namor is fed up, and hits Wolverine with minimal force, to get him off him.

Wolverine slashes him, Namor dodges so he won't suffer bad wounds, and instead of punching Wolverine back, moves out.

He grabs the wooden rope and throws Wolverine around with him, but Wolverine gets free and attacks Namor again.

Namor gets angry. Wolverine is dropped by one kick.

Namor gets an tree and tries to hit Wolverine with it, Wolverine dodges.

The fight is stopped. On the first three pages, Namor didn't relly do anything agressive that would have showed that he was trying to put Wolverine down for good...on fourth page, he does, and puts down Wolverine with a simple kick and is about to hurt him more radically.

Originally posted by jinzin
"you can practice martial arts all your life but if you never practice the right way"

no DC, I know you can argue.. but are you not familiar with the various methods of debate and philosphy? your questions would seem to imply you not to be..

But I am...

Originally posted by jinzin
you have two pics there that are of contiunous action... and namor was hit.. you have ONE example... compared to the consistency of the rest.. that ain't a good thing... 😕

Wolverine hit Namor one time on their first encounter. It was a hit that caused no damage, and Namor barely seemed to feel it.

Second time he got one slash. Somehow, it caused him incredible pain, even though he has taken MUCH worse things without shouting much. And the stab...was clear PIS, since Namor was not even attempting to dodge there for some odd reason...was somehow, once again put down by pain, even though he has had a gaping sword wound on him before and was able to talk and move normally. Do Wolverine's claws carry poison which magnifies the damage? Has Namor's pain tolerance somehow lessened through the years? Hmm...what could the reason be...that's right, bad writing from a writer who doesn't bother to check a character before writing a comic.

Wolverine was not overrated in that fight. Namor was underrated.

Originally posted by jinzin
so you assume without any conclussive evidence to back it up and evidence that acutally supports the observation.

Evidence? Him still standing in same place is evidence that he wasn't even trying...

Originally posted by jinzin
how week was he?

Well, when the virus robbed him, and he tried to fly and dropped down, he grabbed an flag pole to save him. He said that the impact almost ripped his armos off his sockets. Also, the Hlythri had beaten him:

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/2761/hylthri1uq.gif

Originally posted by jinzin
yes actually... to both but wolverine.. that was classic...

Issue numbers? 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
can you register a jet?

Maybe six-ten hours...

Can you register it if it would fly with same speed from a feet's distance?

Originally posted by jinzin
namor's hand and leg speed..

and no...

Hand speed: he swam 15,000 feet in few seconds...

Leg speed: Jumping from meteor to meteor and be able to keep the momentum on.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I understand what makes Namor swim faster...

Normal Atlanteans are adapted to undersea life...they are stronger and faster then normal humans and can swim with 30 MPH...about six times faster then fastest human swimming speed. Namor is mutated Atlantean, one to the extreme, and can swim MUCH faster then normal Atlantean. The normal laws of physics still apply to both Atlanteans and Namor, they can just do everything better then humans.

Namor doesn't even know why he swims that fast as smart as he is don't you think that he would have figured out that it was his speed and strentgh that allowed him to swim so fast if it was them? You say that it is because he is so fast and strong but he says he doesn't even know why.

His fast swimming is no differnt than the ability to fly in other characters.

Also there reallyr aren't any feats of him being superfast on land.

I kinda see Namor swimming so fast the same way he flies, TK.

Limited TK, but still TK. But, he's still 10x faster than Wolverine.

Originally posted by jinzin
less healing factor- easily KOed
crazy- not wolverine- easily koed

there were a number of circumstances that led up to the low end feat.. they were even literally described to explain why it happened in the first place.. your failure to realize that doesn't change the fact..

and it's not a matter of frequent "snacking" it's a matter of keeping his energy up for his healing factor to work the way it usually does.. 🙄

A "healing factor" implies that it recovers from injury after the fact. Or in other words, you cannot heal if you are not yet injured. That seems obvious to me.

Therefore, how does a "healing factor" prevent one from being knocked out? Does one not have to become knocked out first in order to recover from it, as one would from every other type of injury?

Originally posted by jinzin
in spite of him retaining conciousness the entire time? 😕
I'd say it was a loss of balance and the jumbling of the mind control that did it more than anything.. you are aware there were two downed ninjas in the basement, not just the one with the sword...

he retained conciousness.. didn't even lose it when he fell... just balance.. that's not a KO....

Originally posted by jinzin
sasquatch pulling a punch STILL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elk kick....

Originally posted by jinzin
other peices of evidence? okay.. why don't you provide them?
and there you go being selective again... it's okay for wolverine to get KOed to advance the story.. but it's not if he's not KOed... pfffft...

I gave the other pieces of evidence. You dismissed them out of hand, and are proceeding as though they did not exist.

Originally posted by jinzin
I've never said he couldn't be KOed by namor...

Okay...

Originally posted by jinzin
just that namor has failed to do so... and wolverine's more consistently NOT been KOed by heavy hitters.. so while he CAN knock wolverine out.. it's just not more likely to happen than wolverine not being KOed....

In any case, provided that Namor keeps hammering away, eventually Wolverine would have to fall. Out of 10 or so good hits, all it would take is 1 to knock him out...and given their relative feats, I have little doubt that Namor would be able to score his 10 before Wolverine could do similar fight-ending injury to him.

And again, that's assuming Namor doesn't just crush him with a bus. 😉

Originally posted by Melnorme
A "healing factor" implies that it recovers from injury after the fact. Or in other words, you cannot heal if you are not yet injured. That seems obvious to me.

Therefore, how does a "healing factor" prevent one from being knocked out? Does one not have to become knocked out first in order to recover from it, as one would from every other type of injury?

lose healing factor, lose more blood..
lose more blood.. lose consciousness...

the bullets didn't knock him out by concussive force or anything... that seems obvious to me...

Originally posted by Melnorme
In boxing, and many other fighting sports, it is a far more rare occurance for a fighter to be knocked completely unconscious, as opposed to staying conscious and still being "knocked out". Such is the case here. He was conscious, but still clearly hit hard enough that he lost control of his body to the point where he could no longer stand up. Or, perhaps he lost consciousness for a second, or even a couple, or a fraction, which also can frequently happen. Regardless, I don't think you can argue that he maintained the ability to stand, because he didn't.

how are you certain.. there is a body drawn beneath his feat.. is it the ninja holding the sword.. or the other ninja who got downed in the basement? it isn't clear and is open to either interpretation...

in either case you're arguing a KO on a technicality I'm not buying it.. wolverine didn't appear to lose consciousness for any of that.. balance maybe.. but consciousness? no...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Not necessarily. In fact, the evidence here suggests otherwise. I didn't see Wolverine bloodied by that blow, as he clearly was after being kicked by that elk.

apparently getting embedded into the ground requires less force than an elk kick 🙄

And there you go with the spurious accusations again.

Originally posted by Melnorme
I gave the other pieces of evidence. You dismissed them out of hand, and are proceeding as though they did not exist. .

you said other pieces existed but have yet to provide them...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Those probabilities are not based on logic, they are based on observations based on comics wherein it better worked for the story to keep Wolverine in the fight. That won't help him here.

comic books have their own set of principles to work with in terms of logic..

real world logic- wolverine gets hit by super powered punch in head and his brain sloshes around, he gets KOed..

comic book logic- wolverine's taken dozens and dozens of class 100 punches and poundings... he doesn't get KOed...

comic book logan exists..
real world logan does not...

it does help here. this is a comic book debate in case you forgot..

Originally posted by Melnorme
In any case, provided that Namor keeps hammering away, eventually Wolverine would have to fall. Out of 10 or so good hits, all it would take is 1 to knock him out...and given their relative feats, I have little doubt that Namor would be able to score his 10 before Wolverine could do similar fight-ending injury to him.

And again, that's assuming Namor doesn't just crush him with a bus. 😉

in other words.. namor's feats count.. wolvie's don't...

typical...

Originally posted by jinzin
no.. because you obviously don't understand the criticism...

if namor is NEVER written correctly.. than darkcrawler can claim ANY feat that shows namor being hurt, beaten, etc etc.. to simply "not count" because it isn't the "correct" representation of him..

his high end feats could also be claimed to not be high enough to correctly represent namor..

if he's never written correctly, then there's no way to tell how his character really is.. no applicable feats to speak of... thus to argue for him would be an argument on how the character SHOULD be represented and not how he really is...

I understood the criticism, but you apparently failed to understand my position. We understand how a character is able to operate, and we recognize what their feats are, and we know when someone is "jobbing" or when and where PIS comes into play.

What you appear to be claiming is that DarkCrawler will never be satisfied with any representation of Namor, which is obviously false and an unfair accusation. He isn't claiming that Namor is never shown to be strong enough. He isn't suggesting that Namor should be able to take down Galactus (at least not to my knowledge). He is criticizing a very specific representation of a fight, and from what I have seen, with good reason. Surely you aren't arguing that all comic representations are always accurate and fair portrayals of a character's abilities. Must we always accept all representations in the comics as flawless portrayals of characters who always fight at 100% of their abilities, or we are being subjective? That doesn't sound right to me.

Originally posted by jinzin
cause he... did....

you're making an incorrect inference for me right now...
I thought you would be intelliegent enough to understand that I was implying wolverine's ability to pierce > namor's durability.. rather than setting up an argument for whether or not he can hit namor...

Originally posted by Melnorme
What you appear to be claiming is that DarkCrawler will never be satisfied with any representation of Namor, which is obviously false and an unfair accusation. He isn't claiming that Namor is never shown to be strong enough. He isn't suggesting that Namor should be able to take down Galactus (at least not to my knowledge). He is criticizing a very specific representation of a fight, and from what I have seen, with good reason. Surely you aren't arguing that all comic representations are always accurate and fair portrayals of a character's abilities. Must we always accept all representations in the comics as flawless portrayals of characters who always fight at 100% of their abilities, or we are being subjective? That doesn't sound right to me.[B]

the guy said namor's never written correctly.. if that's true what's he basing his position on? it's as simple as that..

and as for being unfair.. you nitpick every damn post I make, almost all your arguments against me are due to semantics... don't tell me about unfair accusations you ****ing hypocrite...

Originally posted by Melnorme
[B]Yes, but again, what depiction are you basing this on? Is your knowledge of this from the comic that DarkCrawler reprinted with some creative dialogue additions?

the one where wolverine gutted him perhaps.. 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
lose healing factor, lose more blood..
lose more blood.. lose consciousness...

the bullets didn't knock him out by concussive force or anything... that seems obvious to me...

Originally posted by jinzin
how are you certain.. there is a body drawn beneath his feat.. is it the ninja holding the sword.. or the other ninja who got downed in the basement? it isn't clear and is open to either interpretation...

Originally posted by jinzin
in either case you're arguing a KO on a technicality I'm not buying it.. wolverine didn't appear to lose consciousness for any of that.. balance maybe.. but consciousness? no...

Originally posted by jinzin
apparently getting embedded into the ground requires less force than an elk kick 🙄

Originally posted by jinzin
you said other pieces existed but have yet to provide them...

Originally posted by jinzin
comic books have their own set of principles to work with in terms of logic..

real world logic- wolverine gets hit by super powered punch in head and his brain sloshes around, he gets KOed..

comic book logic- wolverine's taken dozens and dozens of class 100 punches and poundings... he doesn't get KOed...

comic book logan exists..
real world logan does not...

it does help here. this is a comic book debate in case you forgot..

Originally posted by jinzin
in other words.. namor's feats count.. wolvie's don't...

typical...

Disappointing...

So mel do you have anything called proof.... to back up your claims..perhaps some scans or you know proof of some sort. I must of missed some....so what was your arguement again mel ?