Classic Molecule Man vs Ultimator and all of 5d Imps

Originally posted by celestialdemon
It was the LT, the same one who fought against Nebulous, stood up to Warlock and the IG, confronted Protege, and lost to Thanos w/HOTI. And you're right. After the retcon, the LT was never inferior to Beyonder and Molecule Man. But this thread is using the Molecule Man before Marvel decided to downgrade their power.

But the thing is, Thier powers werent' down graded per say. Thier positions where. Which means one can't use the LT as a measuring stick to which classic MM is measured and then say he beats all of the imps.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But the thing is, Thier powers werent' down graded per say. Thier positions where. Which means one can't use the LT as a measuring stick to which classic MM is measured and then say he beats all of the imps.

I don't think it matters which way it is worded. They were written to be above everyone else, LT included. Even after the retcon of MM and Beyonder, LT was shown to not be #2 to the TOAA when Thanos absorbed him.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
It was the LT, the same one who fought against Nebulous, stood up to Warlock and the IG, confronted Protege, and lost to Thanos w/HOTI. And you're right. After the retcon, the LT was never inferior to Beyonder and Molecule Man. But this thread is using the Molecule Man before Marvel decided to downgrade their power.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
It was the LT, the same one who fought against Nebulous, stood up to Warlock and the IG, confronted Protege, and lost to Thanos w/HOTI. And you're right. After the retcon, the LT was never inferior to Beyonder and Molecule Man. But this thread is using the Molecule Man before Marvel decided to downgrade their power.

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Originally posted by Cubicks
I don't think it matters which way it is worded. They were written to be above everyone else, LT included. Even after the retcon of MM and Beyonder, LT was shown to not be #2 to the TOAA when Thanos absorbed him.

IT matters ALOT how it's worded. IF the LT never was lower than the two, than the feats of the LT cannot be used as a measuring stick of how powerful the beyonder and the mm where in that story. The only feats of the LT that I would find acceptible are the feats of the LT with in the story itself. Which are none. Thanos was being used by TOAA. The LT fell to the power of TOAA. That much is evident. The LT was still number 2. As thanos himself admits to being a puppet to TOAA.

Originally posted by Mr Master
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WRONG. The LT has never been lower than the molecule man and the beyonder. Period.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But the thing is, Thier powers werent' down graded per say. Thier positions where. Which means one can't use the LT as a measuring stick to which classic MM is measured and then say he beats all of the imps.

I'm not worrying about all the imps. I have no opinion regarding that.

Both their position and power was downgraded. The Beyonder went from having the power of millions of universes to a cosmic cube, whose power is beneath the abstracts. If there position was just changed but not their power, they would still be greater than everyone else.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
WRONG. The LT has never been lower than the molecule man and the beyonder. Period.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I'm not worrying about all the imps. I have no opinion regarding that.

Both their position and power was downgraded. The Beyonder went from having the power of millions of universes to a cosmic cube, whose power is beneath the abstracts. If there position was just changed but not their power, they would still be greater than everyone else.

And exactly how powerful is the LT? Who sits over the Omniverse. An infinite place of multiverses? He certainly wasn't that powerful in the secret wars arc.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That much is evident. The LT was still number 2.
As thanos himself admits to being a puppet to TOAA.

What about when Protege copied his power?

What about the Ancient One's Amulet actually being used as an external power source by LT?

What about when Scathan proved to be his equal?

What about when Reed's mind got the best of him?

In all these incidents, LT was/is number 2 ... so now what's the excuse?

Pis? Perhaps, but it's Post-Retcon and Canon referenced in LT's 2006 bio.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I think its been proven that in that story he was lower than both those beings hence the preretcon.

Um no. you fail becuz you are limited in your understanding. The LT according to the retcon, was never lower than them. Thus the story is just that to the LT, a story.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um no. you fail becuz you are limited in your understanding. The LT according to the retcon, was never lower than them. Thus the story is just that to the LT, a story.

If we are taking it pre retcon then the retcon didnt happen. The Lt is the same as he was then at that story. So he fails against MM. In that story he wasnt as powerful as the MM. Plain and simple. Next.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IT matters ALOT how it's worded. IF the LT never was lower than the two, than the feats of the LT cannot be used as a measuring stick of how powerful the beyonder and the mm where in that story. The only feats of the LT that I would find acceptible are the feats of the LT with in the story itself. Which are none. Thanos was being used by TOAA. The LT fell to the power of TOAA. That much is evident. The LT was still number 2. As thanos himself admits to being a puppet to TOAA.

I said once before that I did not use LT as the measuring stick. I go by the intent of the writers when they wrote them to be that powerful. Now they are not written to be the most powerful and that is enough to satisfy me.

They were greater than LT in Secret Wars, or any other being or collection of beings in that storyline. I would hope we can agree on that point.

How Classic MM and Classic Beyonder relate to LT in this day and age is where the line is drawn in the sand.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And exactly how powerful is the LT? Who sits over the Omniverse. An infinite place of multiverses? He certainly wasn't that powerful in the secret wars arc.

That's who he is, but that doesn't mean his power can't be equaled or surpassed. Don't mistake power with status. Roma is the guardian of the omniverse. By definition, she should be powerful enough to defeat any threat to it. Yet, she was beaten by MJJ and Abraxas.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What about when Protege copied his power?

What about the Ancient One's Amulet actually being used as an external power source by LT?

What about when Scathan proved to be his equal?

What about when Reed's mind got the best of him?

In all these incidents, LT was/is number 2 ... so now what's the excuse?

Pis? Perhaps, but it's Post-Retcon and Canon referenced in LT's 2006 bio.

Those don't have any bearings upon how powerful the LT is. DIDn't protoge also get absorbed by the LT? Thus wouldn't the LT be twice as powerful if not more due to the geometric rate that infinite powers stack?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
That's who he is, but that doesn't mean his power can't be equaled or surpassed. Don't mistake power with status. Roma is the guardian of the omniverse. By definition, she should be powerful enough to defeat any threat to it. Yet, she was beaten by MJJ and Abraxas.

You still don't get it. The LT is not in the story. According to marvel history, The LT is not weaker than these two. So you can't compare what the LT is able to do outside of that story, to what the two inside can do.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Those don't have any bearings upon how powerful the LT is. DIDn't protoge also get absorbed by the LT? Thus wouldn't the LT be twice as powerful if not more due to the geometric rate that infinite powers stack?

Originally posted by quanchi112
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If we are taking it pre retcon then the retcon didnt happen. The Lt is the same as he was then at that story. So he fails against MM. In that story he wasnt as powerful as the MM. Plain and simple. Next.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You still don't get it. The LT is not in the story. According to marvel history, The LT is not weaker than these two. So you can't compare what the LT is able to do outside of that story, to what the two inside can do.

No, you are the one who isn't getting it. Before the retcon, the LT was beneath Molecule Man and the Beyonder. That is fact. That's the Molecule Man we are using. The LT's power level hasn't changed since Secret Wars happened unless you can prove he received a power upgrade somewhere.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Shut the **** up.