Re: Re: Is there a PURGATORY?
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's called "free thinker" try it sometime.
Lol, I wasn't implying that you were in the wrong or anything! I don't have any problem with exploring theological and philosophical concepts. I was simply observing that your new idea, however plausible or sensible, has managed to contradict two churches at the same time.
Keep it up though.
Purgatory - perhaps the greatest farce ever concocted.
(BTW: In case you couldn't tell from that remark, I do not believe that there is a Purgatory. It isn't that I find the idea of Purgatory necessarily a bad one; I just don't believe there to be any Scriptural evidence in support of it, and see it as a fictional element - as fashioned by Dante - adopted into the mainstream dogma in order to provide hope/justification for said dogma.)
The Catholic church teaches that salvation is a gradual process of sanctification over time. Few people can be accepted directly into Heaven at death. Purgatory cleanses them from the temporal consequences of the sins that they have collected during their lifetime on earth. Eventually, a person will be eligible to be transferred to Heaven.
The heretics of Arianism in the 4th Century believed that praying for the dead was immoral. Their reasoning behind this is that by doing so a person could commit any sin they wished and count on others praying for their soul in Purgatory.
Originally posted by debbiejo
The Catholic church teaches that salvation is a gradual process of sanctification over time. Few people can be accepted directly into Heaven at death. Purgatory cleanses them from the temporal consequences of the sins that they have collected during their lifetime on earth. Eventually, a person will be eligible to be transferred to Heaven.The heretics of Arianism in the 4th Century believed that praying for the dead was immoral. Their reasoning behind this is that by doing so a person could commit any sin they wished and count on others praying for their soul in Purgatory.
This furthers my condemnation of the theory of Purgatory.
(BTW: I also disagree with the interpretations of heaven and hell that are commonplace.)
I am familiar with the Arians, and cannot help but think that if I were to ever be in any way a Christian, I would undoubtedly be influenced by their beliefs.
*["...Its about you SACRIFICING something to show faith, to take on a small portion of their burden."]
***"For Christ is NOT entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into HEAVEN itself, now to appear in the presence of God FOR US: Nor yet that He should offer Himself OFTEN, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must He OFTEN have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now ONCE in the END of the world hath He APPEARED to PUT AWAY sin by the SACRIFICE of HIMSELF. And as it is APPOINTED unto men ONCE to die, but AFTER THIS the JUDGMENT: So Christ was ONCE offered to BEAR the sins of MANY; and unto THEM that LOOK for Him SHALL He APPEAR the SECOND time WITHOUT sin unto salvation" [Hebrews 9:24-28].
It is Jesus Christ ALONE that DID the sacrificing...and He did it ONCE in the end of the world. He does NOT have to die DAILY (in an unbloody manner) on any MAN-MADE altar of the WHORE OF BABYLON which could NEVER take away sin [Hebrews 10:10-12]. He ALONE took the burden for your sin...for salvation is ALL of GRACE and a GIFT of God to those who BELIEVE...NOT of WORKS least a man should boast [Ephesians 2:8-9].
Marchello
*["See, your thinking that you can buy your way into Heaven, that's not what its about..."]
***You are in error. The doctrine of purgatory is referred to as "the gold mine of the priesthood" since it is the SOURCE of such LUCRATIVE income.
In general it is held that the period of suffering in purgatory can be shortened by GIFTS of MONEY, PRAYERS by a priest, and MASSES, which gifts, prayers, and masses can be provided by the person BEFORE death or by relatives and friends AFTER death. The MORE SATISFACTION one makes while living, the LESS remains to be ATONED for in purgatory.
At the time of death the priest is summoned to the bed of the dying person. He administers EXTREME UNCTION, and solemnly pronounces absolution. Yet AFTER death occurs money is EXTRACTED from the mourning relatives and friends to PAY for MASSES to be said in order to SHORTEN the PERIOD of TORMENT in purgatory. The result...particularly among the IGNORANT and UNEDUCATED people, has been that the Catholic Church SELLS salvation for MONEY, not outwardly and directly, but nevertheless in REALITY. ALL understand that the service of the church in SECURING the SALVATION of a soul in purgatory is to be REWARDED with APPROPRIATE gifts or services.
***********************************************
*["Its about you SACRIFICING something to show faith, to take on a small portion of their burden."]
***The Scriptures do NOT support the Papist doctrine of Purgatory. The Bible tells us "For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23]. When you die you go to one of two places...Heaven or Hell!!! Too, Jesus Christ PAID the PENALTY for ALL sinners who trust HIM ALONE for salvation and He does NOT have to DIE on any man made altar again...to wit: "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. And every priest standeth DAILY ministering and OFFERING oftentimes THE SAME SACRIFICES, which can NEVER TAKE AWAY SINS: but this man, after He had offered ONE SACRIFICE for sins FOR EVER sat down on the right hand of God" [Hebrews 10:10-12].
Marchello