Orochimaru vs Hitsugaya

Originally posted by Haruhi
False statements? Is that why everything Accel has stated has actual canon proof with scans that support it? And is that why everything you stated is obviously contradicted by manga scans? Uh, right.

You can think all you want to, sugar. But in the end.... Whitey wins. And hard.

lmao. still hiding behind other people? the scans posted themselves quite explicitly agree with my point. but ofcourse, u havent read them. furthermore, it can also be seen explicitly in the exact same scenes in the manga. so i guess kishimoto who is involved in it is prbably an idiot too and accel's oppinion which the manga contradicts is right?

but what am i saying, this isnt about me and accel, its about u n ur personal enemities.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
enma's statement = ON PANEL EVIDENCE. your oppinion that in spite of the statement he didnt get hurt = CONJECTURE

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and most of the examples are of characters UNDERESTIMATING their opposition. and marvel as about as consistant as the bible so that is a bad example to generalise from.

We’ve seen the Third Hokage take on Orochimaru and two other Hokages and almost win. We’ve seen Naruto keep up with Sasuke in a fight, despite Sasuke learning how to move as fast as Rock Lee and Naruto never showing any kind of speed like that. We’ve seen Gaara’s sand shield be penetrated by bone fragments when it’s shown to be capable of blocking a city-nuking bomb.

My example still stands. Statements mean little when contradicted by on-panel evidence. And you obviously can’t prove it hurt him.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol. your logic is circular. he flew because he had the snakes. the snakes were wings because they came out after he {supposedly} flew{never stated on panel}. ur forgetting that SNAKES are not WINGS, your also forgetting the major fact that he JUMPED and used body flicker to gte their. and the most major thing your CONSISTANTLY being unable to reply to is the fact that sasuke used the snakes as GRAPPLE to grab onto a tree trunk and PULL himself away from the explosion when infact it wudnt be necessary if they cud help him fly as he wudv just flown away.

Any ways, we’ve seen Nico Robin create wings using nothing but hands. We’ve seen Eve form Black Cat create wings from nanites. We’ve seen Spider-Man create wings out of webbing. There’ absolutely no reason to believe that Sasuke couldn’t just use a wing made of snakes when it’s shown on panel.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
to balance the projection of his remaining wing. to cover the reveales wound of his broken wing. to have some kind of protection that previously the wing offered. but THE MOST easy and understandable definition is he used them as GRAPPLING TOOLS in the absense of his wing.{he grappled with in on panel}.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, now what did i say? evident in the MANGA, PROVEN by crosschekcing in the anime. u have no case.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol. he was commenting on how ANY chakra cud deflect or keep the kusanagi at bay. if u look at the scan, it first pierces him but later naruto resists it by grabbing it in his HAND, and it is that which uro think is so great, naruto being able to grab it and puch it back at all.

Go ahead, prove it pierced him. We clearly don’t see it penetrate him. There aren’t even any sound effects or any indications whatsoever to show it piercing him.

And of course, there’s Orochimaru himself stating:

Originally posted by leonheartmm
didnt i already explain it. it was PIS, plot device, stupidity. but it HAPPENED. he moved at the speed of REFLECTION between mirrors which is lightspeed.

His reflection is in each one. Makes sense that he could transfer to any of them. And no such statement that he was moving any where near mach speed, much less light speed.

Again, prove he moved at lightspeed, ‘cause his inability to completely avoid Sasuke and Naruto pretty much proves that he wasn’t any where near that speed.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
being stubborn again?

I didn’t think it was possible, but I’ actually getting bored constantly proving you wrong.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao. still hiding behind other people? the scans posted themselves quite explicitly agree with my point. but ofcourse, u havent read them. furthermore, it can also be seen explicitly in the exact same scenes in the manga. so i guess kishimoto who is involved in it is prbably an idiot too and accel's oppinion which the manga contradicts is right?

but what am i saying, this isnt about me and accel, its about u n ur personal enemities.

Problem is, everything you state is contradicted by what Kishimoto himself wrote and drew. You're either illiterate or blind, if you actually believe half the crap you're spewing.

And again, what's to be personal about? Last I checked, Bleachers >>> Naruto. So, tough break for Naruto fanboys like you, huh? Haha. I can tell, however, that you're taking this personally, because you're the one touching that subject.

Phail.

Your statement that he was hurt is conjecture. I could just as easily say he wasn’t feeling confident in his own abilities and I would at least have several examples of how often we’ve seen that type of scenario.

lmao, it isnt my statement, it is ENMA'S ON PANEL STATEMENT WHICH WASNT SPECIFICALLY CONTRADICTED. again, the example of kisame vs jiraya remains.

And Naruto isn’t inconsistent? Please.

nowhere NEAR as inconsistant as marvel for heaven's sake.

We’ve seen the Third Hokage take on Orochimaru and two other Hokages and almost win. We’ve seen Naruto keep up with Sasuke in a fight, despite Sasuke learning how to move as fast as Rock Lee and Naruto never showing any kind of speed like that. We’ve seen Gaara’s sand shield be penetrated by bone fragments when it’s shown to be capable of blocking a city-nuking bomb.

the third hokage was losing. urochimaru didnt fight all out at all seeing from his later appearances against tsunde+jiraya and against the 4 tails{and he still wasnt going all out against naruto}. the ONLY reason the aging thrid hoikage stood a chance of winning was because he used shiki fuujin which is as good as a suicide jutsu with almost unbeateable affects. hence the hefty price of one's soul. naruto wasnt keeping up with sasuke at all. he was getting beaten, it was after he decided to use the chidori vs raasengan head on that they were almost equal. even then sasuke held naruto nythe neck and almost killed him wiht chidori. it was only after THAT that naruto started beating him at speed and that was when the KYUUBI CHAKRA took over. even without the tail narutto was running so fast that the plank sasuke threw at him burst into flames and burnt to ashes before it even made contact with him just by the air friction surrounding him. and later on the tail took over. duh, its simple.
gaara's sand shield was NOT penetrated by bonde fragments, just his sabako kyuu {desert coffin} was overpowered. his shield of shukaku took the attack. and u are severely underestimating kimimaru, he was nearly as powerful as sasuke is now. plus if u noticed, later even kimimaru's last dance of the klimt created super dense chakra bones the size of a fair few stories in the field as far as the eye can see. also, all the characters are MUCH STRONGER IN SHIPPUDEN, and gaaras is kazekage, aka, strongest in the sand village. so ther u go, consistant.

My example still stands. Statements mean little when contradicted by on-panel evidence. And you obviously can’t prove it hurt him.

i can prove he said it on panel. and i can prove it wasnt specifically contradicted. i can also prove that there was no reason to him to state the obvious and anythin less than a sever injury. your point is off panel conjecture that contradicts on panel evidence.

Apparently using snakes to grapple means one can’t use snakes to create wings; in a world where people can summon acid-spewing slugs and oil-spewing toads, I guess snakes being wings requires too much suspension of disbelief. Go figure… srug

right right, simply because peple can do amazing things and summon acid spewing slugs means that urochimaru uses the kusanagi as a sex toy and naruto is actually a hermaphrodite while diedara is just playing dead after his fight with sasuke because every1 is SOOOO amazing. what bull. the fact is that sasuke used them to GRAPPLE and NOT fly, when infact he cud have easily avoided the blast if he FLEW and wudnt HAVE to grapple. thats enough evidence that snakes were not acting as a wing. oh wait hey, if they were, wudnt that support the idea that people like urochimaru without wings can used chakra and chakra based jutsu to change direction in mid air and FLY to keep uo with hitsygaya??? lol, ud better make sure where u stand.

Any ways, we’ve seen Nico Robin create wings using nothing but hands. We’ve seen Eve form Black Cat create wings from nanites. We’ve seen Spider-Man create wings out of webbing. There’ absolutely no reason to believe that Sasuke couldn’t just use a wing made of snakes when it’s shown on panel.

riiiight, and those examples are significant here HOW? it is NOT SHOWN ON PANEL THAT HE WAS USING THE SNAKES AS WINGS, HE WAS USING THEM AS "GRAPPLES" ON PANEL.

A simple, “I don’t know” would have done just fine.

but i do know, they were to cover up the wound and were used on panel as grapples.

Anime doesn’t prove any thing because it isn’t cannon. I don’t care if it looked like he did it a hundred times in the anime, it didn’t happen in the manga, so it never happened at all.

correction, fillers are not cannon. the anime pretty much is. besides, i proved it in the manga and THEN resorted to the anime of the exact same scan to support it. u have no argument. oh hey, wasntr haku changing direction mid air with chakra ? 😛

I assume you mean this scan:

Go ahead, prove it pierced him. We clearly don’t see it penetrate him. There aren’t even any sound effects or any indications whatsoever to show it piercing him.

LOL, it didnt go THROUGH him, but he felt the brunt of the attack, and it blasted him back which katon etc cudnt do. it was LATER that he held it with his hand and pushed it away AFTER which uro made the comment. ur giving incomplete scans on purpose rent u?

And of course, there’s Orochimaru himself stating:

read above. incomplete scan.

Haku stated that he used to the reflection in each mirror to transport himself and (gasp) look! omg_smilie

His reflection is in each one. Makes sense that he could transfer to any of them. And no such statement that he was moving any where near mach speed, much less light speed.

lmao. he was moving at the speed of REFLECTION. and a lot of the images are illusions. it seems that was because he is moving so ffast from one to the other that he seems everywhere.

Again, prove he moved at lightspeed, ‘cause his inability to completely avoid Sasuke and Naruto pretty much proves that he wasn’t any where near that speed.

circular logic. ur assuming sasuke and naruto are weak. sasuke's shaaringan cud see him. and naruto had kyuubi chakra when he blasted the whole contruct away. it just goes to show how powerful narutoers are if you are gonna look at high end showings.

So, once again, you have nothing. C’mon you could at least make this a little challenging.

lmao, i think ur already doing a fine enough job of being beaten at every argument, i dont have to make it harder for you.

I didn’t think it was possible, but I’ actually getting bored constantly proving you wrong.

correction, delusions do not constutue reality.

Originally posted by Haruhi
Problem is, everything you state is contradicted by what Kishimoto himself wrote and drew. You're either illiterate or blind, if you actually believe half the crap you're spewing.

And again, what's to be personal about? Last I checked, Bleachers >>> Naruto. So, tough break for Naruto fanboys like you, huh? Haha. I can tell, however, that you're taking this personally, because you're the one touching that subject.

Phail.

lmao, ur the one who poked ur nose into a thread which u had no part in to begin with. ur the one who hasnt posted a single argument concerning the topic here. ur the one who's posts have started and continue uptil now to only serve as flaming against me with no other evidence either way. ur also the one who is hiding behind other posters who are on the opposite side from me when you urself are not debating.

hmmmm, and IM taking this personally? seeing the above facts, what motivation exactly do YOU have for continuing on with this childish game? lol, sum wud still say your bitter 😄 .

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, it isnt my statement, it is ENMA'S ON PANEL STATEMENT WHICH WASNT SPECIFICALLY CONTRADICTED. again, the example of kisame vs jiraya remains.

Otherwise, we’ve got Superman saying he wouldn’t want to fight Martian Manhunter, yet he owns MM every time they tangle.

We’ve got Thanos saying he wouldn’t want to fight Hulk, even though he’s manhandled him every time.

We’ve got Vash the Stampede saying he couldn’t beat Legato, even though he does beat him when they fight.

We’ve got Daredevil saying he couldn’t up with Spider-Man when he has almost every time they’ve fought.

We’ve got Kid Muscle saying he couldn’t beat almost any wrestler he proceeded to beat in the ring.

We’ve got Batman saying he could never best Lady Shiva in H2H combat, yet he has.

And the list goes on. Enma’s statement doesn’t hold any more ground than those, especially since it cannot be proven that he was hurt.

If Enma made his statement after the fight, you’d have a case. But he didn’t, so you don’t.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
nowhere NEAR as inconsistant as marvel for heaven's sake.

I doubt you’ve even read more than a handful of Marvel comic books.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the third hokage was losing. urochimaru didnt fight all out at all seeing from his later appearances against tsunde+jiraya and against the 4 tails{and he still wasnt going all out against naruto}. the ONLY reason the aging thrid hoikage stood a chance of winning was because he used shiki fuujin which is as good as a suicide jutsu with almost unbeateable affects. hence the hefty price of one's soul.

If that’s not inconsistent, I don’t know what is.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
naruto wasnt keeping up with sasuke at all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
gaara's sand shield was NOT penetrated by bonde fragments, just his sabako kyuu {desert coffin} was overpowered.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i can prove he said it on panel. and i can prove it wasnt specifically contradicted. i can also prove that there was no reason to him to state the obvious and anythin less than a sever injury. your point is off panel conjecture that contradicts on panel evidence.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
right right, simply because peple can do amazing things and summon acid spewing slugs means that urochimaru uses the kusanagi as a sex toy and naruto is actually a hermaphrodite while diedara is just playing dead after his fight with sasuke because every1 is SOOOO amazing. what bull. the fact is that sasuke used them to GRAPPLE and NOT fly, when infact he cud have easily avoided the blast if he FLEW and wudnt HAVE to grapple. thats enough evidence that snakes were not acting as a wing. oh wait hey, if they were, wudnt that support the idea that people like urochimaru without wings can used chakra and chakra based jutsu to change direction in mid air and FLY to keep uo with hitsygaya??? lol, ud better make sure where u stand.

Here, we see Sasuke ejecting two snakes out of his arm to grapple (since he clearly doesn’t have enough time to simply create another wing and fly away before the explosions go off)…

And here, we see a lot more snakes sticking out of Sasuke’s back in the exact same spot in the shape of a wing, and coincidentally he also happens to be in the air, despite not being able to just go up there before.

Now, you’re honestly telling me that Sasuke just happened to randomly stick a bunch of snakes out of his back like that at the same moment he appears behind Deidara and that he jumped up there even though no one in Naruto has been shown to jump that high before?

You must make your friends feel so smart when they hang out with you.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
riiiight, and those examples are significant here HOW? it is NOT SHOWN ON PANEL THAT HE WAS USING THE SNAKES AS WINGS, HE WAS USING THEM AS "GRAPPLES" ON PANEL.

Good God, man, you’re willing to except that a ninja can move at light speed and another can jump higher than mountains, but you aren’t wiling to except that Sasuke could create a wing made out of snakes?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but i do know, they were to cover up the wound and were used on panel as grapples.

Since when did using something for grappling automatically mean it couldn’t be used for flying?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
correction, fillers are not cannon. the anime pretty much is. besides, i proved it in the manga and THEN resorted to the anime of the exact same scan to support it. u have no argument. oh hey, wasntr haku changing direction mid air with chakra ? 😛

Originally posted by leonheartmm
LOL, it didnt go THROUGH him, but he felt the brunt of the attack, and it blasted him back which katon etc cudnt do. it was LATER that he held it with his hand and pushed it away AFTER which uro made the comment. ur giving incomplete scans on purpose rent u?

But , just so you don’t end up whining about me not showing the whole picture…

Now show me where it pierced him.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
read above. incomplete scan.

But again I’ll be generous and, oh, look…

It didn’t pierce him. Guess Orochimaru wasn’t lying after all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao. he was moving at the speed of REFLECTION. and a lot of the images are illusions. it seems that was because he is moving so ffast from one to the other that he seems everywhere.

Again, prove he was moving at those speeds, ‘cause for some one who uses a character’s words as law, you sure are ignoring the fact that he doesn’t even mention so-called “speed of reflection.”

Originally posted by leonheartmm
circular logic. ur assuming sasuke and naruto are weak. sasuke's shaaringan cud see him. and naruto had kyuubi chakra when he blasted the whole contruct away. it just goes to show how powerful narutoers are if you are gonna look at high end showings.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, i think ur already doing a fine enough job of being beaten at every argument, i dont have to make it harder for you.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest boy in the world.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
correction, delusions do not constutue reality.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, ur the one who poked ur nose into a thread which u had no part in to begin with. ur the one who hasnt posted a single argument concerning the topic here. ur the one who's posts have started and continue uptil now to only serve as flaming against me with no other evidence either way. ur also the one who is hiding behind other posters who are on the opposite side from me when you urself are not debating.

Actually, I did post my thoughts on it. Whitey wins because of the many things everybody else said already. Do I really have to repeat what they said to post an argument? No. The difference here is, you're posting an argument, because you're the ONLY one who believes that crap. Everybody else posting knows how full of crap and untrue your statements are. I'm merely coming in here and telling you that's what they are. Full of crap and untrue. If you think this is personal, then you're not looking at anything objectively. You're TRYING to make it personally by pointing in that direction, when all I've been doing is stating the truth... which is, again, that your arguments are full of crap and not true.

hmmmm, and IM taking this personally? seeing the above facts, what motivation exactly do YOU have for continuing on with this childish game? lol, sum wud still say your bitter 😄 .

Because I like pointing a finger at the thread dunce and telling everybody else about it. Is it personal? Nope. I do that with every fanboy that I know are wrong. =)

So, yeah. Whitey wins, phailure. You can keep posting fabricated crap, but that's how it ends. Whitey freezes Oro, chops up the icicle, calls it a day. All that crap about "So and so can't be frozen" = not true, because it's never been displayed.

It also wasn’t specifically proven; therefore, it holds no ground. No signs of pain, hurting, whatever at all.

it was said on panel. it wasnt specifically DISPROVEN, and theres reason enough to beleive why it wasnt specifically PROVEN. it holds ground. your views =off panel conjecture

Otherwise, we’ve got Superman saying he wouldn’t want to fight Martian Manhunter, yet he owns MM every time they tangle.

We’ve got Thanos saying he wouldn’t want to fight Hulk, even though he’s manhandled him every time.

We’ve got Vash the Stampede saying he couldn’t beat Legato, even though he does beat him when they fight.

We’ve got Daredevil saying he couldn’t up with Spider-Man when he has almost every time they’ve fought.

We’ve got Kid Muscle saying he couldn’t beat almost any wrestler he proceeded to beat in the ring.

We’ve got Batman saying he could never best Lady Shiva in H2H combat, yet he has.

ahan, and how many of those examples are from naruto? fail. you are talking about marvela and dc comics where at one time a character is beat down by enemies not even on the city destroying level and at other times can take the megido warhead which cud have destroyed galaxies. again, this just goes to show that despite small retcons and uniform powerfups, naruto remains FAR more consistant than marvel and dc.

And the list goes on. Enma’s statement doesn’t hold any more ground than those, especially since it cannot be proven that he was hurt.

and how many of those statements deny what enma said? fail. he said it, grounds for beleif. it wasnt disprven, beleif persists. theres reason to beleive that good reasons exist for lack of on panel ACTIONS to further support the beleif, beleif is reinforced.

If Enma made his statement after the fight, you’d have a case. But he didn’t, so you don’t.

Bull. Shit.

I doubt you’ve even read more than a handful of Marvel comic books.

lmao. and u claim this based on WHAT?

The fact is that he still almost won, despite going up against two friggin Hokages and then besting Orochimaru in a fight by knocking the blade out of his hands, means more than your excuses ever will.

right, thats his big achievement? knocking a blade out of urochi's hand when he wasnt expecting it? 😆 . the only reason he won was because of using a forbidden technique which cost him his LIFE. it was like a suicide bomber. he cudnt have countered the edo tensin without the shiki fuujin. and guess who walked away from the fight, urochi.

e sure was doing a good enough job of keeping up with him on the hospital rooftop.

reflexes =/= speed. and sasuke wasnt seen to e using his super speed or body flicker. and lets admit it, neither were going all out. and if i remember correctly, the naruto clones were being easily beaten by sasuke. and ur quoting the least powerful example of both characters in the entire manga btw. except perhaps the beginning of zabuza arc.

Really now? Some one should have told Gaara that.

.

LMAO. 😆 . that was gaara using a partial guard. the same one overcome by lee without his wieghts. and if u posted the next scan, kimimaru's hassendan just rotated and fell down harmlessly and gaara didnt even flinch. gaara wan putting chakra in his shield, he was basically acting cool, and went on to say "ur a hasty one" the next hassedan DIDNT pierce through the sand shield either. and again you are forgetting, the gaara who stopped the explosions was a gaaras AFTER TIME SKIP! why do u simply reply to the part of the post which seems simplest to you and not reply to the wrest and leave it?

You can’t prove that he wasn’t just wrong in his statement regarding his abilities, like so many have in those examples I mentioned. If something can’t be proven one way or the other, it’s useless to use as evidence in any thing.

dealt with. kishimoto is not that stupid. look up.

Since this is so hard for you to comprehend, I’ll try and make it easier for you.

Here, we see Sasuke ejecting two snakes out of his arm to grapple (since he clearly doesn’t have enough time to simply create another wing and fly away before the explosions go off)…

And here, we see a lot more snakes sticking out of Sasuke’s back in the exact same spot in the shape of a wing, and coincidentally he also happens to be in the air, despite not being able to just go up there before.

Now, you’re honestly telling me that Sasuke just happened to randomly stick a bunch of snakes out of his back like that at the same moment he appears behind Deidara and that he jumped up there even though no one in Naruto has been shown to jump that high before?

You must make your friends feel so smart when they hang out with you.

Those examples show that it’s obviously not so outrageous as you would like to believe that a wing can be made out of snakes. If a person can make wings out of hands, hen Sasuke can make them out of snakes.

let me ask u, where do u get the "he clearly didnt have time to create a wing" argument. it definately wasnt hinted on panel. rent u just making that up to support ur argument?
as far as the technique went, he FINISHED it afteward by producing all the snakes. and they do not at ALL resemble a wing, they are going all over the place. the hands which acted as wings, had membranes in between fingers spread out and FLAPPED when flying. plus they were stated on panel as GOD DAMN WINGS! not present for the snakes. he was merely jumping and using body flicker.

Good God, man, you’re willing to except that a ninja can move at light speed and another can jump higher than mountains, but you aren’t wiling to except that Sasuke could create a wing made out of snakes?

did i say i thought it was SENSIBLE that a ninja cud move at lightspeed?? no i said it was PIS but if u wanna look at high end bleach feats then also look at high end naruto feats. again, ur missing a great part of the originally posted material. im not willing to accept anything that isnt hinted upon or stated on panel. i have no problem beleiving it COULD happen in a magical world. it just DIDNT.

pider-Man uses his webbing to grapple onto ledges all the time. He’s also used that same webbing to create wings before.

ahan, and he is stated on panel to be gliding/flying with those wings. no such thing for sasuke. besides, his web actually RESEMBLE wings, sasuke's snakes do not.

Since when did using something for grappling automatically mean it couldn’t be used for flying?

can means nothing if it wasnt stated or hinted on panel. it wasnt.

Nope, anime in general isn’t canon if it’s based off an anime. 🙂

in general maybe. not naruto. place manga and anime side by side and see. it is mostly cannon in non filler episodes{pre chippuden} as far as the manga is their for context.

Right. That’s ALL it did. Not once does it show it piercing him, so where the hell are you getting your so-called facts from?

But , just so you don’t end up whining about me not showing the whole picture…

Now show me where it pierced him.

Irrelevant. Not like he suddenly says in the next panel, “Oh, wait, it actually did penetrate him.”

But again I’ll be generous and, oh, look…

It didn’t pierce him. Guess Orochimaru wasn’t lying after all.

hmmm, if it didnt pierce the chakra field, then how was it able to exert force enough to bash him into the ground. his hand certainly wasnt hlding it off in the beginning as all his limbs can be seen. srry u dont have an argument. pierced =/= impale.

He doesn’t even mention moving at the “speed of reflection” (wtf?). All he mentions is transferring to in-between reflections which are all located on each ice mirror.

Again, prove he was moving at those speeds, ‘cause for some one who uses a character’s words as law, you sure are ignoring the fact that he doesn’t even mention so-called “speed of reflection.”
[QUOTE]

he doesnt mention "speed" of reflection. but he mention moving THROUGH reflections. inside reflection. that is lightspeed. moving on.

[QUOTE]
Please. You’re assuming a person was moving at light speed when no such statement was made in the actual manga.

read above. ur wrong.

Despite the fact that I’ve been the one posting evidence this whole time while you’ve just been stating what you so desperately want to believe?

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest boy in the world.

no, u have been posting incomplete scans. wrong interpretation of your OWN scans, partial repliues to segmented parts of my post while ignoring the rest, and circular argumentation.

oh n btw, im not the person whos putting cnjecture over on panel evidence and attributing the brain power of a six year old to kishimoto.guess im not so ignorant.

…said the boy who still couldn’t prove his statement of Naruto clones jumping higher than mountains. 🙂

right, because the mountain of evidence already given isnt enough for you to work on with your next devious refusal? puhlease 🙄 🙄

Actually, I did post my thoughts on it. Whitey wins because of the many things everybody else said already. Do I really have to repeat what they said to post an argument? No. The difference here is, you're posting an argument, because you're the ONLY one who believes that crap. Everybody else posting knows how full of crap and untrue your statements are. I'm merely coming in here and telling you that's what they are. Full of crap and untrue. If you think this is personal, then you're not looking at anything objectively. You're TRYING to make it personally by pointing in that direction, when all I've been doing is stating the truth... which is, again, that your arguments are full of crap and not true.

no, u started off by your futile attempts at personal insults and gave your THOUGHTS{hardly qualifying as higher mental processes} on the subject with no evidence whatsoever simply to antagonise against my viewpoint and vex me. the wrest of it is the same baby bawling thats always been bawling.

[/QUOTE]
Because I like pointing a finger at the thread dunce and telling everybody else about it. Is it personal? Nope. I do that with every fanboy that I know are wrong. =)

So, yeah. Whitey wins, phailure. You can keep posting fabricated crap, but that's how it ends. Whitey freezes Oro, chops up the icicle, calls it a day. All that crap about "So and so can't be frozen" = not true, because it's never been displayed. [/QUOTE]

lol, u like pointing your finger at people with no apparent ulterior motivation or reason? well then psychologically, that is defined as being personal lost soul. and really, have you noticed how for the greater part even the people u seem to be supporting to try n get at me dont reply to u? 😆 .
as for the second paragraph, "WAKE UP HARUHI! wet dream's over boy"

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, u started off by your futile attempts at personal insults and gave your THOUGHTS{hardly qualifying as higher mental processes} on the subject with no evidence whatsoever simply to antagonise against my viewpoint and vex me. the wrest of it is the same baby bawling thats always been bawling.

Wrong. I started the thread with my input. You came in with your usual "Naruto character curbstomps Bleach character" I told the truth - that you bullshit your argument because NOTHING you saw is true and because canon DISPROVES everything you say. It's one thing to insult you, it's completely another to call you out on it.

[/QUOTE]
Because I like pointing a finger at the thread dunce and telling everybody else about it. Is it personal? Nope. I do that with every fanboy that I know are wrong. =)

So, yeah. Whitey wins, phailure. You can keep posting fabricated crap, but that's how it ends. Whitey freezes Oro, chops up the icicle, calls it a day. All that crap about "So and so can't be frozen" = not true, because it's never been displayed. [/QUOTE]

lol, u like pointing your finger at people with no apparent ulterior motivation or reason? well then psychologically, that is defined as being personal lost soul. and really, have you noticed how for the greater part even the people u seem to be supporting to try n get at me dont reply to u? 😆 .
as for the second paragraph, "WAKE UP HARUHI! wet dream's over boy" [/QUOTE]

I told you my ulterior motive and/or reason. It's that I enjoy calling out wankers like you, because I know everything you say is full of crap. Need somebody to support me? Not even. Everybody here knows how full of crap your arguments are. They've called you out on it.

What's amazing here is that you STILL continually post, despite the NUMEROUS times you've been proven wrong by actual canon material. Here's an important tip : When you're caught in a lie, it doesn't mean you should try harder to cover it up!

So, yeah. You phail. Keep posting, though! I enjoy picking on you. =D

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it was said on panel. it wasnt specifically DISPROVEN, and theres reason enough to beleive why it wasnt specifically PROVEN. it holds ground. your views =off panel conjecture

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ahan, and how many of those examples are from naruto? fail. you are talking about marvela and dc comics where at one time a character is beat down by enemies not even on the city destroying level and at other times can take the megido warhead which cud have destroyed galaxies. again, this just goes to show that despite small retcons and uniform powerfups, naruto remains FAR more consistant than marvel and dc.

Just look at Enma. 🙂

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and how many of those statements deny what enma said? fail. he said it, grounds for beleif. it wasnt disprven, beleif persists. theres reason to beleive that good reasons exist for lack of on panel ACTIONS to further support the beleif, beleif is reinforced.

In fact, he was much more affect by Orochiamru’s snakes than the blade. There’s absolutely no evidence to back up Enma’s equivalent of saying “This is going to hurt.”

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so whats was the point of the statement? was kishimoto stupid? read above to.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao. and u claim this based on WHAT?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
right, thats his big achievement? knocking a blade out of urochi's hand when he wasnt expecting it? 😆 . the only reason he won was because of using a forbidden technique which cost him his LIFE. it was like a suicide bomber. he cudnt have countered the edo tensin without the shiki fuujin. and guess who walked away from the fight, urochi.

Not much other than that.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
reflexes =/= speed. and sasuke wasnt seen to e using his super speed or body flicker. and lets admit it, neither were going all out. and if i remember correctly, the naruto clones were being easily beaten by sasuke. and ur quoting the least powerful example of both characters in the entire manga btw. except perhaps the beginning of zabuza arc.

Sasuke’s skirmish with Rock Lee wasn’t as serious as that, and Lee clearly showed his superior speed in their fight. Sasuke could have easily done the same.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
LMAO. 😆 . that was gaara using a partial guard. the same one overcome by lee without his wieghts. and if u posted the next scan, kimimaru's hassendan just rotated and fell down harmlessly and gaara didnt even flinch. gaara wan putting chakra in his shield, he was basically acting cool, and went on to say "ur a hasty one" the next hassedan DIDNT pierce through the sand shield either. and again you are forgetting, the gaara who stopped the explosions was a gaaras AFTER TIME SKIP! why do u simply reply to the part of the post which seems simplest to you and not reply to the wrest and leave it?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
dealt with. kishimoto is not that stupid.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
let me ask u, where do u get the "he clearly didnt have time to create a wing" argument. it definately wasnt hinted on panel. rent u just making that up to support ur argument?
as far as the technique went, he FINISHED it afteward by producing all the snakes. and they do not at ALL resemble a wing, they are going all over the place. the hands which acted as wings, had membranes in between fingers spread out and FLAPPED when flying. plus they were stated on panel as GOD DAMN WINGS! not present for the snakes. he was merely jumping and using body flicker.

I didn’t think you were that simple, but I guess I underestimated you. You seriously think Sasuke just randomly sprouted those snakes on his back at the same moment he appears that high in the air.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
did i say i thought it was SENSIBLE that a ninja cud move at lightspeed?? no i said it was PIS but if u wanna look at high end bleach feats then also look at high end naruto feats. again, ur missing a great part of the originally posted material. im not willing to accept anything that isnt hinted upon or stated on panel. i have no problem beleiving it COULD happen in a magical world. it just DIDNT.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ahan, and he is stated on panel to be gliding/flying with those wings. no such thing for sasuke. besides, his web actually RESEMBLE wings, sasuke's snakes do not.

Riddle me this: if Sasuke could have simply jumped up there, why bother transforming and producing his wing and a pile of snakes in place of his missing wing in the first place?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
can means nothing if it wasnt stated or hinted on panel. it wasnt.

Cripes, man, if a character was shown holding up three fingers, would you deny it until it was stated on panel that he was holding up three fingers?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
in general maybe. not naruto. place manga and anime side by side and see. it is mostly cannon in non filler episodes{pre chippuden} as far as the manga is their for context.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, if it didnt pierce the chakra field, then how was it able to exert force enough to bash him into the ground. his hand certainly wasnt hlding it off in the beginning as all his limbs can be seen. srry u dont have an argument. pierced =/= impale.

Orochimaru, the guy who tried to stab Naruto, said so himself that it didn’t pierce him. We see on panel that it didn’t pierce him.

So, what was the point of Orochimaru's statement? Is Kishimoto being a stupid writer for making him lie for no apparent reason? 😐

Originally posted by leonheartmm
read above. ur wrong.

Gotta love that kind of logic.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, u have been posting incomplete scans. wrong interpretation of your OWN scans, partial repliues to segmented parts of my post while ignoring the rest, and circular argumentation.

oh n btw, im not the person whos putting cnjecture over on panel evidence and attributing the brain power of a six year old to kishimoto.guess im not so ignorant.

So, what did I leave out? The fact that Naruto proved Orochimaru right by simply sliding the blade off of him?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
right, because the mountain of evidence already given isnt enough for you to work on with your next devious refusal? puhlease 🙄 🙄

Go ahead. Show me the mountains. I’d love to hear this one. 🙂

Originally posted by Accel
Even though you obviously can’t prove me wrong, you can’t prove he was moving at lightspeed, and you can’t prove that he was even moving at the “speed of reflection” (whatever the hell that is).

Ahem....you sound quite stupid here, you don't know what the speed of reflection is?

right okay, let me break this down for you.

- A reflection is an image being reflected off a surface.

- The reflection itself is merely light reflecting off another surface

- Thus, the speed of reflection is the speed of light.

Also, what do you mean he can't prove you wrong?

Haku appears in all the mirrors at the same time, giving the impression there are many of him, when infact there is only one. The only explanation for this is that he is moving much faster than the eye can see.

Well that's how I see it until it's proven otherwise

Originally posted by Remindme
Ahem....you sound quite stupid here, you don't know what the speed of reflection is?

right okay, let me break this down for you.

- A reflection is an image being reflected off a surface.

- The reflection itself is merely light reflecting off another surface

- Thus, the speed of reflection is the speed of light.

I know perfectly well what the speed of light is and what makes a reflection; however, the “speed of reflection” term would refer more to the movements of an actual reflection, not the light that creates it.

Originally posted by Remindme
Also, what do you mean he can't prove you wrong?

Haku appears in all the mirrors at the same time, giving the impression there are many of him, when infact there is only one. The only explanation for this is that he is moving much faster than the eye can see.

Well that's how I see it until it's proven otherwise

There’s absolutely no evidence, no statements, no any thing to indicate that he was moving at the speed of light and the mere idea that he was is absurd and is based on nothing.

Originally posted by Accel
After reading all of leon’s posts, this is the only thing that you thought was stupid enough to correct? 😐

I know perfectly well what the speed of light is and what makes a reflection; however, the “speed of reflection” term would refer more to the movements of an actual reflection, not the light that creates it.

No, it's just for the Anime/Manga section i feel it's unwise to debate in a thread i myself created

I am in Awe

You think Reflections have their own speed?

Dispite the fact Reflections are the result of light bouncing off a clear surface...

I do feel it is you who needs to prove this, as you are using perhaps an unwise choice of words by the translator as evidence is too weak to claim on.

Originally posted by Accel
His reflection appears in all the mirrors. You can even see the real one sticking out of his mirror here while his reflection is still showing in the mirror next to him. And he stated himself that he could transfer to any of the reflections at a certain level of super-speed.

There’s absolutely no evidence, no statements, no any thing to indicate that he was moving at the speed of light and the mere idea that he was is absurd and is based on nothing.

It appears to be the image of that mirror had not yet faded to the speed of the human eye, that's all.

There is evidence to suggest it strongly, not to prove. However what i find more interesting is there is no evidence to disprove it, unless of course i'm missing something.

The evidence that suggests it you might ask is before Haku steps into the mirrors, there are no images of him in any of the others.

When Naruto knocks him out, the images fade.

Though i will not get involved beyond this simple and to be honest seemlying irrelevent point, i do hope you learn to see when it is you yourself who needs to do the proving.

Originally posted by Remindme
You think Reflections have their own speed?

Originally posted by Remindme
I do feel it is you who needs to prove this, as you are using perhaps an unwise choice of words by the translator as evidence is too weak to claim on.

Does that mean he was moving at the speed of light? Not even close. It seems he can simply transport between each one at a certain level of speed, similar to the 4th Hokage’s ability to teleport where ever his special kunais were.

Originally posted by Remindme
It appears to be the image of that mirror had not yet faded to the speed of the human eye, that's all.

There is evidence to suggest it strongly, not to prove. However what i find more interesting is there is no evidence to disprove it, unless of course i'm missing something.

It’s something that you can’t prove he did, therefore it’s not evident of any lightspeed at all.

At the same time, you can’t even possibly claim he was moving at lightspeed when he doesn’t make any statements referring to that whatsoever. He doesn’t show the ability to move at lightspeed at any art of the fight.

Originally posted by Remindme
The evidence that suggests it you might ask is before Haku steps into the mirrors, there are no images of him in any of the others.

When Naruto knocks him out, the images fade.

Though i will not get involved beyond this simple and to be honest seemlying irrelevent point, i do hope you learn to see when it is you yourself who needs to do the proving.

Haku moving at light speed is bullshit. Are we to believe now, that Sasuke's flame jutsu can move at that speed, too, since it tagged Haku during his attack?

Yeah, right. Not only is that not stated in the manga, it's not mentioned in the anime, but rather a dub. And relying on a dub gets you nowhere.

Last post for me here, Haku was getting slower and slower as Sasuke used fire jutsu's because the hotter the air is, the more friction there is, thus slowing Haku down more and more

I'm not debating Accel so forget it, but how have proven yourself wrong with that link. Also why is it that the needles comes from all dicrections at the same time, if what you say is true?

as i said, you haven't disproved anything, you are using loose wording by a translator as evidence, which is a arguement so weak it's laughable.

So, apparently the heat affected him so much that he went from light speed to a speed able to be tagged by slow moving flames? Right..

Attacking from several directions at once is not a show of light speed, either. In the Naruto-verse, that type of speed is expected. And the nature of the jutsu plays a large part of it as well.

And, if you're going to believe one form of translation, how about one that's translating the manga, and not the anime, in which case, the dubbing is clearly wrong, as I can understand Japanese enough to know that Haku never stated he was moving at light speed.

Originally posted by Remindme
Last post for me here, Haku was getting slower and slower as Sasuke used fire jutsu's because the hotter the air is, the more friction there is, thus slowing Haku down more and more

Originally posted by Remindme
I'm not debating Accel so forget it, but how have proven yourself wrong with that link. Also why is it that the needles comes from all dicrections at the same time, if what you say is true?

There’s nothing about that that screams lightspeed. The guys who attacked Gaara with long needles in the Forest of Death were able to mimic that, and they were moving no where near light-speed.

Originally posted by Remindme
as i said, you haven't disproved anything,

Originally posted by Remindme
you are using loose wording by a translator as evidence, which is a arguement so weak it's laughable.

What else are we so supposed to go by? The fact that he’s apparently moving really fast? Please. If that were the case, any body who's shown any super-speed would be able to move at light-speed.

Prove he moved at light-speed, because I have him stating he transfer to any reflection and we can see in these two scans that not only is his reflection in each mirror, but the real one comes from one mirror, proving he isn’t constantly moving jumping in each one simultaneously.

And, of course, here, we have Sasuke and Kyuubi Naruto (neither of which are even close to light-speed) are able to keep up with him.

So, again, prove to me that he can move at light-speed, because not only is there no indication or statement that he can, all my scans are evidence that he can’t even come close to that.