The Runner vs. Superman

Originally posted by Magee
God damn if you had flash moving at his top speed of every issue it would be pretty damn boring and he would be almost unbeatable. Try and understand Flash is the fastest character ever, his high end feats top any one or any thing but for obvious reasons he is not going to operate at those levels in every comic, other wise it would make for some boring reading. Try and under stand comics before making stupid claims.

I assume you were talking to me. Firstly, if you want to debate, do so. If you want to insult, let me know. I'm a good debator, and even better at insulting.

Flash's speed-related feats are the best. I do not dispute them. Saying he cannot be hit based on a handful of feats sprinkled over decades while ignoring other showings calls for shenanigans.

I understand that Flash cannot operate at his nuclear-bomb-city-searching levels, because each comic would be pretty damn boring otherwise. I also understand that his median levels are far lower. For me, it is a case of flash NOT being able to operate at those levels all the time rather than him CHOOSING not to operate at said levels. Not happy with that? Too bad. DC's writers dug a hole for themselves when writing feats such as the black flash one, as they made flash into too much of a variable character. Flash would be much more interesting without those feats which fans harp on all day.

Flash running to the end of time had nothing to do with speed, with out the speed force he could never do this. Its not like he just ran really fast and ended up at the end of existence. I don't really see a point to your post but Flash has moved at insane speeds time after time he should be allowed to operate at these levels due to forum rules. How would he be more interesting with out these things, he is the fastest man alive he needs insane feats to back that statement but it in no way means he has to be constantly moving at light speed jsut because he can.

Runner is a bit overrated here...

What are Runner's best feats ? He doesn't have that much high end feats. Superman however, has lots of them. Speed isn't everything.

Runner is an idiot too by the way. And overconfident.

Based on feats, powers and intelligence, I give this to Superman.

Originally posted by Magee
Flash running to the end of time had nothing to do with speed, with out the speed force he could never do this. Its not like he just ran really fast and ended up at the end of existence. I don't really see a point to your post but Flash has moved at insane speeds time after time he should be allowed to operate at these levels due to forum rules. How would he be more interesting with out these things, he is the fastest man alive he needs insane feats to back that statement but it in no way means he has to be constantly moving at light speed jsut because he can.

So you are saying that flash's running to the end of time has nothing to with speed, but with the speed force, even though the flash draws his speed from the speed force?

Flash has moved at great speeds. I have no problem with that. It also does not mean that illogical high end feats should be thrown around. Running to end of time = how fast? Clearing a city of people while under the speed of light? Using exceptions to disprove the norm?

To be the fastest man, he just needs to be faster than the second fastest entity. No need for ambiguous feats.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Runner is a bit overrated here...

What are Runner's best feats ? He doesn't have that much high end feats. Superman however, has lots of them. Speed isn't everything.

Runner is an idiot too by the way. And overconfident.

Based on feats, powers and intelligence, I give this to Superman.

The only character to blitz Thanos, punk SS and beat the Collector very badly. I remember him doing something with Moondragon too. Nothing much to scream at, but he does not have many appearances, but enough to know that none of them are PIS, and enough to know that he should take a good majority against Superman.

Originally posted by Magee
God damn if you had flash moving at his top speed of every issue it would be pretty damn boring and he would be almost unbeatable. Try and understand Flash is the fastest character ever, his high end feats top any one or any thing but for obvious reasons he is not going to operate at those levels in every comic, other wise it would make for some boring reading. Try and under stand comics before making stupid claims.

It's the exact same way with Storm.

Depowered Runner?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Runner is a bit overrated here...

/thread

Runner

Current Runner can't even surpass lightspeed -.-

Originally posted by Ouallada
The only character to blitz Thanos, punk SS and beat the Collector very badly. I remember him doing something with Moondragon too. Nothing much to scream at, but he does not have many appearances, but enough to know that none of them are PIS, and enough to know that he should take a good majority against Superman.

- Runner surprised SS (so much for cosmic awareness), and SS is known to job. I'm not saying SS will wipe the floor with Runner, but a well written Surfer, using every power he has, is no joke.

- Moondragon ? 😆

Like I said, no real high end feats. Impressive feats yes, but nothing that makes me think that Runner will just run over Superman.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
- It's a feat speedblitzing Thanos ? Especially when the Runner was using the Space Gem ? Some feat...

- Runner surprised SS (so much for cosmic awareness), and SS is known to job. I'm not saying SS will wipe the floor with Runner, but a well written Surfer, using every power he has, is no joke.

- Moondragon ? 😆

Like I said, no real high end feats. Impressive feats yes, but nothing that makes me think that Runner will just run over Superman.

It is a feat blitzing a Thanos who already had a couple of gems under his belt. I have already seen your complete rejection of why Thanos is a faster sucker than you give him credit for, so i see no need in elaborating further.

How did SS job?

He actually had a pseudo-affair with Moondragon, not a fight. Were you perhaps jumping a logical bridge too far with the sarcasm?

Thanos has never been know for his speed.

You do have a point...Thanos did have more gems. When he used them..the battle quickly ended.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that he's slow as molasses in most cases.

Originally posted by Ouallada
I have already seen your complete rejection of why Thanos is a faster sucker than you give him credit for, so i see no need in elaborating further.

I have no problem admitting he's quite fast. Captain America on a bad day however is still faster.

How did SS job?

Even Spider-Man has given Surfer serious trouble.

He actually had a pseudo-affair with Moondragon, not a fight. Were you perhaps jumping a logical bridge too far with the sarcasm?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Until now, I have never - read : never - seen Thanos move or fight or react as fast some people think he can.

I have no problem admitting he's quite fast. Captain America on a bad day however is still faster.
[B]

Subjective perception. Characters known for their speed have tried and failed to affect battle outcomes in any way due to speed. You can either argue for a mass jobbing along the lines of conspiracy theorists arguing that Man never landed on the moon, or simply take battle outcomes as they have been shown.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
[B]The way he always jobs. Surfer has the potential to be one of the top dogs in Marvel, but he isn't. Surfer lost to Thor on more than one occasion, while i.m.o., Surfer is more powerful, faster and more durable than Thor.[B]

Do you understand the meaning of "job"? A job is a scripted loss to make the victor look better. Does Spiderman need a random crook to job when he is already > random crook? Of course, you can show me evidence that Surfer jobbed on that occasion. I am not interested in how many other losses he took that he should not have, and only in his performance against the runner.

I agree that SS > Thor, but not by the margin that you seem to be insinuating. I only remember one or two clean losses, not counting the Loki/BnT ones. If SS takes 6/10 against Thor, it is not far-fetched for him to lose a couple in a row.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
[B]Even Spider-Man has given Surfer serious trouble.
[B]

That is not so much a job as it is SS' character. To be honest, does anyone who can tell the difference between SS and pepsiman use that in a debate, barring x-fanboys? Much ado about nothing, as I assume both of us know well enough to invalidate tripe like that.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy I wouldn't dare.

That is correct. 😎

Originally posted by Avlon
Thanos has never been know for his speed.

You do have a point...Thanos did have more gems. When he used them..the battle quickly ended.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that he's slow as molasses in most cases.

And Federer (tennis) has never been known as a soccer player good enough to turn professional. Whether or not Thanos is known for speed matters not. What matters more is faster opponents trying and failing to use speed against him.

Yup, Thanos used the time gem against runner. Which only enforces the point that the runner was giving him grief with his speed.

I don't know. How many races has Thanos been in exactly?

Originally posted by Ouallada
Subjective perception. Characters known for their speed have tried and failed to affect battle outcomes in any way due to speed. You can either argue for a mass jobbing along the lines of conspiracy theorists arguing that Man never landed on the moon, or simply take battle outcomes as they have been shown.

He doesn't have the showings to make me think otherwise. Bottom line is, if you think a certain character has this and that power, you better have some solid proof to back it up.

Oh and Superman still wins, but it won't be easy.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Which battles are you talking about ? And there's nothing subjective about it by the way. Thanos is pretty slow compared to the majority of the Marvel heroes/villains.

He doesn't have the showings to make me think otherwise. Bottom line is, if you think a certain character has this and that power, you better have some solid proof to back it up.

Oh and Superman still wins, but it won't be easy.

Starfox and fallen one come first and foremost to mind. Something is subjective when it can be interpreted in more than one way. So unless you are saying that it is your way or the highway......

You will not see Thanos blitz someone, if that is your criteria of combat speed. However, not being blitzed by someone faster than himself is evidence enough. Call it speed of thought or reflexes or jobbing, but save the runner, he has not been successfully blitzed

The lack of evidence on your part is evidence itself. The burden of proof does not lie on me, because in previous battles with heralds, Thanos has not been blitzed. If I were to simply say something like 'Thanos can do teh retCon ppunch!!11!!11', the burden of proof would be on me. Your saying that Thanos can be blitzed when he has showings in which fast characters have failed to blitz him needs backing up. Ergo, runner's blitz is a feat for the runner.

The runner takes this.

Starfox and Fallen One are your best examples ? That's pretty meagre.

Especially Fallen One... if you are talking about that one time that Fallen One flew to Thanos, and Thanos raised his hand (don't remember exactly what happened next, he blasted him or so).

That's a speed feat from Thanos ? A proof of his superior reflexes ? Now, it could be considered as a one time "speed feat", but the problem is : we don't have the slightest idea how fast Fallen One was going.

2 miles an hour ? 15 miles an hour ? Speed of sound ? Speed of light ? Your guess is as good as mine.

If you want my opinion - and who doesn't - Fallen One just flew to Thanos, probably pretty fast, but that's about it. If you claim he was going Mach 256, you have a lot to prove.

And Starfox is a bit of a joke when fighting, non ?

You will not see Thanos blitz someone, if that is your criteria of combat speed.

The burden of proof does not lie on me, because in previous battles with heralds, Thanos has not been blitzed

Thanos has Ftl reflexes but can only run at about 30 mph

Kinda weird dont you think?