Street Fighter IV

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's genuinely hilarious that, even now, people are still saying things like:

"Natural skill you've gained from your job.", and failing miserably to see why that immediately stops it being a natural skill.

So ridiculous.

I mean a natural skill you didn't know you had until you got a job that actually uses it. If it is useful to playin' VGs, you can apply it to that. Quit being such a smug little dick and think about what you read rather than just responding to it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I've NEVER played the game? That's a fact is it?

Hmm, I haven't played it, you're SO sure of that. You're claiming it's a fact I haven't played it. Yet...

Why are you asking, if it's a fact I didn't play it? Hmm?

Come on, you're smarter than this, aren't you?

If it's a fact I didn't play it, then I played it on...no console, because I've never played it. Right?

If you're asking me that question, it means you clearly don't know if I have or have not played it. You are looking to find out. Thus, stop sitting there making stupid claims like "You haven't ever played it.". You don't know if I have or have not, you're making what you believe to be a well-educated guess. It's not a fact, you can't prove that.

A fact is an undeniable truth with insurmountable and inarguable proof. Do you have insurmountable and inarguable proof that proves, beyond all doubt and deniability, that I have not played this game? Can you prove, as sure as water is wet and the sun is hot, that I have never played Street Fighter 3? No.

When you realise why you're wrong, when you stop making such silly claims as "You have never played the game.", I'll answer any questions you have. Until then, you're done.

What you SHOULD be saying is: "I do not believe you have ever played the game.". You don't believe I have, you don't KNOW.

No, before you reply with "I do.". You don't. You're just really sure. Until you accept this, I'm answering no questions of yours. Until you learn to seriously differentiate between fact and opinion, you and I cannot be buddies and have ice cream, I'm afraid.

I'm not playin' this silly school yard game wit someone who claims to be a grown man anymore. Any regular human bein' will realize that "Oh, he's saying that I shouldn't catch diarrhea at the mouth when dealing with subjects I know very little about." And you PROVED you knew very little about SFIII by your posts. Your arguin' now for the hell of it and it's lame. Stop it. Any intelligent life form would have already given sample of knowledgeble information about the game to prove that they have played it. Not argue about something else entirely. Your tactics are very childish and I know cuz I use to use them when I was still in grade school.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Don't waste your time No End, it's pointless, I don't deny you ever playing it Alpha, what I deny is the fact that you don't really know about the fighting game you are disputing against and rooting for. Your logic of easy, to strategy and diversity is flawed, as shown by your worship of "Move List ='s Diversity" notion. Ever notice that the only person who agrees with you and your thoughts is someone who also has not played against solid competition? Coincidence?

If you go to srk.com, and read a note about Jeff, he stated about how back when he was very young, that he took a reaction speed test.

[b]"My reaction time used to be among the fastest, at well under .16 seconds from brain to hand. I remember I took a reaction time test when I was younger and the guy said I was extraordinarily rare and that I was higher than a lot of professional baseball players and boxers he tested." - Quote from Jeff at srk.com

Jeff even stated that because of this, he then applied it into the game of Street Fighter. So in short, it wasn't a "learned" thing that he learned from playing the game of SF to "improve" his speed. Basically put this was NOT learned while playing Street Fighter, this was just him being naturally inherited with this. Yes, he only improved on it, which made him become one of the best during the Early Era. Really now? So a guy who was already naturally gifted at being fast in reaction, decides to play SF, and only improves on, made him even more monstrous and was one of the catalyst that puts him near the Top.

This is why Jeff's Statement in the video I showed you pertaining about Tomo would make absolute and perfect sense, because as good as Jeff was naturally, Tomo was Better.

I agree, reaction time "can" be improved through playing fighting games, however to deny that it isn't also naturally inherent with certain people as well is simply ridiculous. Heck, even the study of Reaction Speed, they clearly state that it's also naturally inherent.

http://www.coreperformance.com/knowledge/training/reaction-time.html

Ps: It's also noted that some people do suck at fighting games, regardless of how hard they try, because they can't react nor execute with any relative consistency, if it can go that way, it can surely go the other. [/B]

I guarantee he will find a way to argue against that.

Guys, quit the arguing. At this point it's just ridiculous.

Edit: Started this before I saw you post, G.K.

I didn't post it in spite of that. Though, he did call me a "smug little dick". Can't say anyone else has used such language.

Originally posted by No End N Site
I mean a natural skill you didn't know you had until you got a job that actually uses it. If it is useful to playin' VGs, you can apply it to that. Quit being such a smug little dick and think about what you read rather than just responding to it.

Well, flaming is certainly one way to render your argument void. If you have to personally insult me, you obviously haven't got much else. I'm not using such language and abuse against you, it's a shame you had to resort to it.

Originally posted by No End N Site
I'm not playin' this silly school yard game wit someone who claims to be a grown man anymore. Any regular human bein' will realize that "Oh, he's saying that I shouldn't catch diarrhea at the mouth when dealing with subjects I know very little about." And you PROVED you knew very little about SFIII by your posts. Your arguin' now for the hell of it and it's lame. Stop it. Any intelligent life form would have already given sample of knowledgeble information about the game to prove that they have played it. Not argue about something else entirely. Your tactics are very childish and I know cuz I use to use them when I was still in grade school.

What silly game? You're making very ridiculous, untrue, unsubstantiated and unsupportable claims. I'm simply showing you why.

I'm not "playin'" any game with a person who literally cannot tell the difference between fact and an opinion.

Whether or not it's true that I know very little about S.F. 3, that would STILL show that I HAVE played the game. You can't make a claim like: "You've never played the game before", because not only is it untrue, but it's your word Vs mine regarding something I've done.

My tactics are childish? When I call you a "little dick", you can criticise me.

Originally posted by No End N Site
I guarantee he will find a way to argue against that.

Of course I will, because it's so easy to. You can't do it with a maths book.

"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.", you can't argue that.

If it's arguable, debateable etc...then I'll argue it. It's not fact, you want it to be.

The FACT is that YOU will find any reason to reply.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Don't waste your time No End, it's pointless, I don't deny you ever playing it Alpha, what I deny is the fact that you don't really know about the fighting game you are disputing against and rooting for. Your logic of easy, to strategy and diversity is flawed, as shown by your worship of "Move List ='s Diversity" notion. Ever notice that the only person who agrees with you and your thoughts is someone who also has not played against solid competition? Coincidence?

Yes, it is coincidence. People agreeing doesn't make something right. My point was right before he came along and it's right now.

He may not have knowledge of the game, but he understands my over-arching point, something that you and No End repeatedly fail to grasp.

Originally posted by JustFrame
If you go to srk.com, and read a note about Jeff, he stated about how back when he was very young, that he took a reaction speed test.

"My reaction time used to be among the fastest, at well under .16 seconds from brain to hand. I remember I took a reaction time test when I was younger and the guy said I was extraordinarily rare and that I was higher than a lot of professional baseball players and boxers he tested." - Quote from Jeff at srk.com

Jeff even stated that because of this, he then applied it into the game of Street Fighter. So in short, it wasn't a "learned" thing that he learned from playing the game of SF to "improve" his speed. Basically put this was NOT learned while playing Street Fighter, this was just him being naturally inherited with this. Yes, he only improved on it, which made him become one of the best during the Early Era. Really now? So a guy who was already naturally gifted at being fast in reaction, decides to play SF, and only improves on, made him even more monstrous and was one of the catalyst that puts him near the Top.

1. Does he provide proof of his claim?

2. Reaction time of controller button pressing is easier to gauge because the fingers are already on the button.

3. You talk about how I worship arguments. You worship this man's words as if he's Jesus. "Jeff said, Jeff thinks.", who cares? Jeff's one man who has a clear bias.

4. I want actual quotes from Jeff, sources and back-up to him saying all of these things. Essentially he's just saying: "Yeah I did all this stuff.". There's no proof.

Originally posted by JustFrame
This is why Jeff's Statement in the video I showed you pertaining about Tomo would make absolute and perfect sense, because as good as Jeff was naturally, Tomo was Better.

I agree, reaction time "can" be improved through playing fighting games, however to deny that it isn't also naturally inherent with certain people as well is simply ridiculous. Heck, even the study of Reaction Speed, they clearly state that it's also naturally inherent.

http://www.coreperformance.com/know...ction-time.html

Did you read the link?

"Reaction time itself is an inherent ability, but overall response time involves a variety of factors, including practice, experience, anticipation, strength and coordination. Each athlete has a built-in, limited time range to react, but within those boundaries is plenty of room for improvement.".

Inherent ability as in anyone has the ability to have quick reaction time.

Response time (Which is what we're discussing) depends on, as they said, a variety of factors. Those factors are probably ones that prove your point, not mine. Let's see:

Practise...nope, I said that one. Experience? Was that...nope, that was me. Anticipation...? Me too, it's an off-shoot of experience. Knowing what to anticipate etc.

Strength is irrelevant. Co-ordination is something that comes with practice.

Each athlete has it built-in to be ABLE to react, hence why they call it a limited time range to react. Because until you learn and train, it's LIMITED. There's ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

Now, can anybody tell me what that means? It means, training, practice and repetition.

That's ALL it comes down to.

In sprinting there's a degree of natural ability. What nationality you are, where you're from, what body type you have etc; these are all natural occurances that may provide a physiological advantage.

That does not occur...in Street Fighter playing.

Fact.

Now, No End was guaranteeing that I'd find a way to counter your post, as if it was impossible and I'd have to clutch at straws. I haven't. I've used your link against you and once again proven that you're really quite wrong.

"Jeff said, Jeff believes.", so what? Science > Jeff.

Edit: In light of the mod's post, I'll direct any further replies to PMs.

-AC

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Guys, quit the arguing. At this point it's just ridiculous.

Yeah, the thread seems to be shifting to damn history and science class!

So basically this went from "Its only reaction time in SF" to "Tekken has more move-list ='s more diversity" back to "Its only reaction time in SF". So let me get this straight, lets just "believe" that everything in here "can" be achieved without any "natural ability of a person being faster to react" then another.

You are basically indicating that only in Street Fighter, that it comes down to "faster reaction"? All I have to say is this, that is the most bias statement I've read, and clear indication that you've never played any of these Fighting Games remotely on a decent level.

Fact remains simple, that this notion that you are implying is also shown in every fighting game out there, not just Street Fighter. More importantly, when you go beyond the newbie level, you'll notice that Street Fighter as a fighting game has far more to offer then the game of Tekken.

Yes, send me a PM, so we can continue this debate, and hopefully I can actually get you to actually talk about the fighting game instead which is sad, because the problem with you is that you have to derail the entire topic off hand pertaining to something that is basically visible in All other Fighting Games, not just Street Fighter.

At this point, you don't know how Street Fighter works, and you definitely don't know how Tekken works as well.

Ps: It's not about Jeff being Jesus Alpha, his credibility is there for all to see, and it's also about him knowing the fighting game more then you do, which is the problem. Send me PM's, let's talk SF and Tekken for the first time.

- Peace -

"The only person agreeing" of JF's could be misunderstood by Alpha thinking it's me. He probably meant Hell Lancer. Either way, I said there's natural (inherited) qualities as mentioned already, and then comes practice. With a game, if everyone is physically and mentally equally capable, they can be on the same highest level. That is the point I made. The two sides however seemed to have been on opposite extremes, though if you know what I mean.

People agreeing also does not mean anything, especially when they've shown to have passion for what it is they're defending and arguing for.

Makoto can use her rage mode super combined with her ultra and she can now block in rage mode. Check out the video as Justin Wong demonstrate some the new ways you can use Makoto in ssf4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dIhsDzL9iQ&feature=player_embedded

It appears that the damage she deals in Rage Mode is greatly reduced, that's prolly why they down graded it to a super. And J.Wong should not be allowed to play at tourneys, he got a head start over almost everyone. But at least they got someone to test the game who knows what too look for in terms of balance.

Here's an Ibuki demo I found.

YouTube video

It says copyright. Reported. 131

Vaicom=WEAK!

Just incase nobody saw it yet, trailer of Hakan:

YouTube video

Dude is too funny.

The game will be good. If only they didn't put even more "reliance" upon Ultra's, this game would have had tremendous potential, however seeing as to how they purposely left Ryu with basically all of his Ultra Set Up Options, they are basically pushing players to even rely more upon it, judging from the videos it looks like there may potentially be more or new ways for characters to land their Ultra's now.

The saddest part about this, is that the Tier Factor will have a heavy emphasis on who can gain the biggest advantage from their Ultra's, depressing really. It's a inevitable and a bitter pill to swallow, however we'll see how this turns out really, because in the end, I'll be looking forward to playing as Guy within this game. My problem is, atm, having no access to this game simply blows, unlike SF:IV where I was playing it almost as soon as it came out, I don't have that same luxury this time around, so I'm just going off of what people are saying, videos and from my "own" theory box.

On another note, I would so, so, so, so love Capcom, if they allowed Shoto's to be able to to do their c.fk buffer into Hadouken again. Gosh, I miss that! Hakan looks hilarious, and yes, "if" your bringing in Cody and Guy, you minus will bring in Mike Haggar right? right!

Lastly, anyone seen this video? Very good possibility that Gouken's Denjin-Hadouken may be comboable in a launcher, although he didn't land it all entirely, the potential is there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyyAkgsBYS4

Originally posted by JustFrame
The game will be good. If only they didn't put even more "reliance" upon Ultra's, this game would have had tremendous potential, however seeing as to how they purposely left Ryu with basically all of his Ultra Set Up Options, they are basically pushing players to even rely more upon it, judging from the videos it looks like there may potentially be more or new ways for characters to land their Ultra's now.

The saddest part about this, is that the Tier Factor will have a heavy emphasis on who can gain the biggest advantage from their Ultra's, depressing really. It's a inevitable and a bitter pill to swallow, however we'll see how this turns out really, because in the end, I'll be looking forward to playing as Guy within this game. My problem is, atm, having no access to this game simply blows, unlike SF:IV where I was playing it almost as soon as it came out, I don't have that same luxury this time around, so I'm just going off of what people are saying, videos and from my "own" theory box.

On another note, I would so, so, so, so love Capcom, if they allowed Shoto's to be able to to do their c.fk buffer into Hadouken again. Gosh, I miss that! Hakan looks hilarious, and yes, "if" your bringing in Cody and Guy, you minus will bring in Mike Haggar right? right!

Lastly, anyone seen this video? Very good possibility that Gouken's Denjin-Hadouken may be comboable in a launcher, although he didn't land it all entirely, the potential is there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyyAkgsBYS4

Here is an article I got from SRK, they took it down but I managed to save it on my PC. Alot of the Ultra setups have been taken away AND, now, either they're not as useful or not as damagin'. Many characters that had good Ultras got them toned down.

Shoryuken.com
Article

Wouldn't it be nice if someone who cared about what SRK wants to know could spend some time with Super Street Fighter 4's final build, and then tell us what he saw? Wish granted, apparently. someone got to spend most of yesterday playing the retail build, and he got permission to talk to the press about it! Good thing he chose Shoryuken.com as his preferred press outlet! I got the chance to talk with Joey for a couple of hours last night about all the changes he saw to the old characters, and see how some of the new ones were shaping up. If you want to read his brutally honest opinions, you need only click the "read more" button.

Joey started off by noting that changes to old characters are pretty minimal. He said that all characters seem to hit lv2 focus faster, other than Seth, so that makes Focus Attacking universally faster unles you are naked. He also noted that damage scaling after a focus cancel (not just the focus attack) scales harder now, and he estimated roughly 30% harder. He then did a character by character breakdown for me. Here are my notes from what he said. (Note that U1 and U2 are refering to Ultras 1 and 2 respectively)

Quote Originally Posted by A very sleepy MrWizard
Ryu - Ryu's medium and hard dragon punches hit twice now. Damage is down on it, but if you FADC, you only get one hit from it, so damage is down even farther. Trades to ultra from DP are gone, and most trades into ultra from SF4 are gone, but not all.

Ken - He is not looking good. They didnt give him much. He cannot FADC to Ultra2 normally. He didnt get crazy kicks from previous SF games. They slightly improved his fireball.

Chun li - She got 'infinitely better'. U2 combos easily all day. The upkicks target combo goes into U2, as well as EX legs anywhere on the scree. Its very dangerous. U2 gets all 20 hits every time, if it wiffs for a while and you get hit by the very end of it, you still take the full damage.

Guile - He seems to have been given nothing. Sonic Hurricane, his U2 is not good. Super into U2 is the only known combo into it. Down+Taunt puts on glasses, but doesnt give him any buffs or advantages.

Zangeif - Very similar. He could lariat trade into U2 in earlier builds, but he cannot anymore.

Rose - She can juggle off soul reflect into air throw or U1 or ex fireball. U2 is very good. Can corner juggle into orbs. Each orb can hit once before it dissipates, including on block. They do about 20% damage each on full ultra. Wiz noted that he needs to check what happens when projectiles hit them. When the orbs activate, there is a delay before you can do special moves again, including throw. They delay felt like 3-4 seconds. Orbs cross up very easy. Rose seemed powerful.

Blanka - Wiz didnt get a good chance to test Blanka

Honda - Wiz didnt get a good chance to test Honda

Dhalsim - He seemed the same. No notes on U2.

Balrog - Rush punches are unthrowable now. His U2 is bad, it has terrible range. Seemed too hard to land to be worth giving up U1.

Vega - Seemed the same. His Claw stays on a lot longer now, though.

Sagat - He does less damage overall. Scar-uppercut does double damage, nothing more. If you do scar move, you cant do it again until you uppercut, but you can store the powered up state the entire round if you want.

Bison - J.Strong into U2 works. Its not a charge motion so its very handy. U2 is a blockable stomp attack, and it can crossup! It hits hard, too! No known nerfs.

Rufus - Ex messiah kick is not as good, but still good. EX snake strike damage is way down. U2 doesnt seem to combo well. U2 is good anticrossup or antiair, but thats about it.

Fuerte - Wiz didnt get a good chance to test Fuerte

Viper - No notable changes. She can U2 off EX seismo if you are fast. The recovery from U2 is ok. Rumors of mp thunder nerf are untrue or reversed, if its slower its only a frame or two.

Abel - He has a faster c.hk. U2 cant combo but its fast and has armor if you hold the button, it looks to be very good.

Guy - Feels slow. Has cool chain combos into super. EX spin kick is vertical. EX shoulder is his best move, super fast.

Cammy - Cannon drill 'got a little better', so I heard, but I have no details. Uppercut damage nerfed pretty hard. U2 is terrible.

Fei - Wiz didnt get a good chance to test Fei Long

Gouken - No known nerfs. U2 still blockable, but backthrow into 5 hits of it into wallbounce into more fun works.

Sakura - Her crossup j.mk is back. Very good crossup. Makes her feel more like sakura again. U2 is the best choice. Its two ultras in one, okay damage, easy to combo, can aim it up or forward. EX hurricane to ultra is simple as hell.

Dan - Dan is secretly super good now, team has been working hard on him. Uppercut fadc U2 is strong. His fireball goes 60% of the screen now. The rest seems untouched, but this is 'all he needed' to be a contender.

Akuma - no known nerfs. Many of the nerfs from earlier builds were reverted. Infinite is gone, but you can still combo after s.hk. Jab cannot link to HK anymore, so you cant loop it. Lv2 focus into new ultra wiffs, but works from Lv3 focus. EX airfireball into U2 works.

Gen - Wiz didnt get a good chance to test Gen

Seth - Everything is the same, except his focus attack takes longer to hit lv2 now. Its not very good. U2 can combo anywhere you could combo stomps and does good damage.

Juri - Kara throw is good with HP. Wiz could only find a 5 hit Custom Combo in U1 mode without FADC. U1 mode is really long in duration. Divekick hits overhead. EX wheelkick seems nearly instant startup. Hitpoints seemed close to Ibuki's, but it was hard to tell.

T.Hawk - Hawkdive is his armor breaker. Hawk Upper cannot be FADCed at all, ever, at any point. U2 is bad, very very hard to hit. Feels slower than Zangief but stronger. His normals are very good.

Adon - He seems very weak. Both ultras are hard to use. Jaguar Tooth and Jaguar Kick are both unsafe on block. Air Jag-kick might be safe. EX jag kick is safe. Has a very good overhead though, one of the best.

Deejay - He seems decent. Nothing too bad, nothing too good. Reminds you of ST in that way.

Cody - He can only FADC tornado on first hit and the tornado wont come out. He cannot combo ultra after it. Has 3 levels of charge on his Zonk Knuckle, and its really really good and annoying. He says BINGO everytime he does it. You can combo into Zonk. HK ruffian is good.

Dudley - Not much to add to JWong's video, but he is probably #1 in the game.

Makoto - EX grab has 1 hit of armor! Outside of this, nothing to add to JWong's video.

Ibuki - Nothing to add to JWong's video.
That about wraps it up. Im sure if Joey gets more playtime, I'll be able to squeeze a little more information out of him for you guys. He also told me about one more... Hmmm, no, that will have to wait!

Soooooooooooooooooooooo many nerfs. I won't look at it in a totally negative light cuz it could end up makin' the game more balanced but the new characters seem to be beastly. Can't wait to see cats complain about Dudley, they're goin' to. It may be rightfully so, tho.

So basically, judging from that entire post, I have a few "theory notes" for myself..

Ryu, Chunli, Gouki and "possibly" Gouken have alot of potential still from the original SF:IV cast, while Dudley and Makoto are the two new ones who have very good potential (basing this off of what I saw with what Wong was doing with both of these characters, sick yes!). So basically, the tier listing for the original cast at least, won't seem to be twitching too much, Sagat will be the only one to really be losing his #1 spot, and Gouki if he really did not get any major nerfs imo can probably be argued for #1 along with Dudley "at this point", I still put Ryu in the Top-5 (His real dominance with his footsie and spacing game which didn't get any shafts so he'll still be a strong contender).

However, I knew that if they didn't improve Guile on his regular Supers, and much better ranges on his pokes, that he was going to get shafted again. Seriously Capcom, he needs his SFII like poking game back, with a much better Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, my goodness, this is absolutely stupid on them for not improving his tools. He is a character who if he could play similar to his dominance of his OG counterpart would be one of the few characters who wouldn't need a super dependable Ultra if he received those buffs.

It possibly could balance things out, however we'll wait and see, but again, I'm not too particularly keen on the balance issue though, just so long as a solid portion of the cast is competitive then that's all that really matters. On a side note, hearing that Guy isn't that fast breaks my heart, that guy depended upon his speed to control space and footsies, I'm really hoping they "make" him a bit faster, however that thought could potentially be gone now.

SSF:IV looks solid, a cast bigger then usual, but who knows, but I have to say that Fei Long wins Hands Down yes, Again, for the Most Spectacular Looking Ultra in the Entire Game, kick on the knee joint to stagger opponent into a rapid flurry of punches followed by the elegant and slow set up of the One-Inch Punch ='s Epic...yeah, saw it a looooong time ago, however it never gets old.

Originally posted by JustFrame
So basically, judging from that entire post, I have a few "theory notes" for myself..

Ryu, Chunli, Gouki and "possibly" Gouken have alot of potential still from the original SF:IV cast, while Dudley and Makoto are the two new ones who have very good potential (basing this off of what I saw with what Wong was doing with both of these characters, sick yes!). So basically, the tier listing for the original cast at least, won't seem to be twitching too much, Sagat will be the only one to really be losing his #1 spot, and Gouki if he really did not get any major nerfs imo can probably be argued for #1 along with Dudley "at this point", I still put Ryu in the Top-5 (His real dominance with his footsie and spacing game which didn't get any shafts so he'll still be a strong contender).

However, I [b]knew that if they didn't improve Guile on his regular Supers, and much better ranges on his pokes, that he was going to get shafted again. Seriously Capcom, he needs his SFII like poking game back, with a much better Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, my goodness, this is absolutely stupid on them for not improving his tools. He is a character who if he could play similar to his dominance of his OG counterpart would be one of the few characters who wouldn't need a super dependable Ultra if he received those buffs.

It possibly could balance things out, however we'll wait and see, but again, I'm not too particularly keen on the balance issue though, just so long as a solid portion of the cast is competitive then that's all that really matters. On a side note, hearing that Guy isn't that fast breaks my heart, that guy depended upon his speed to control space and footsies, I'm really hoping they "make" him a bit faster, however that thought could potentially be gone now.

SSF:IV looks solid, a cast bigger then usual, but who knows, but I have to say that Fei Long wins Hands Down yes, Again, for the Most Spectacular Looking Ultra in the Entire Game, kick on the knee joint to stagger opponent into a rapid flurry of punches followed by the elegant and slow set up of the One-Inch Punch ='s Epic...yeah, saw it a looooong time ago, however it never gets old. [/B]

I see it the same way, Ryu has lost alot but most of what made'im stupid easy to win is still there. The Ultra trades off of DPs for him really did need to go, tho.

Also, here is some info on Sagat...seems as if he's still good.

Ahh, Sagat, my main character in Street Fighter 4 so of course I had to spend a lot of time with him and get a better understanding of what they changed and see if he would still be competitive. Those of you who were hoping he will drop down a rung on the tier list are going to be disappointed, because the core aspect of his gameplay are still intact. Kara Uppercuts, fast High Tiger Shots and devastating Tiger Knees are still in the game along with his two hit standing Roundhouse and of course everyone's favorite: Uppercut FADC, Forward Roundhouse into Ultra.

That said, his damage has been balanced quite a bit which no one can deny is a good thing for the game. His Tiger Uppercuts do far less damage as do his tiger knees.

The damage reduction in my opinion is not the main nerf to his game, it's the change to one of his normal moves: his far Standing Light Kick cannot cancel into anything anymore, and is now a two hit move where only the first his is cancelable. This will make pinning opponents in the corner much harder since he cant stand at max range and pressure with Standing Light Kick into Tiger Shot. This also takes away some of his better long range combos such as Jump Fierce, Standing Light Kick into Low EX Tiger Shot. Over all this is a pretty big change for veteran Sagat players and we will just have to learn how to adjust to this.

A new move they gave him is EX Scar. You do this by inputting Quarter Circle Backwards x2 + Punch. Richard and I spent literally 30 minutes trying to find a use for this with no avail. There was talk that this move had evasion properties but I cant tell you how many times both of us just got kicked in the head for our efforts. The move will pause the screen for a moment, perhaps throwing off the timing of the opponent, but it doesn't seem worth it to waste a whole EX bar just to power up the next Tiger Uppercut. There could be practical applications for this move in the future but who knows.

As I said, Sagat is still very strong with most of his gameplay still intact, so I think he will be winning just as much, but the fights will just take a little longer to end now due to his reduced damage output.

LINK
http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/3/10/capcom-gdc-super-street-fighter-4-fight-club-impressions-cha.html

I also find it incredibly dumb to not really give Guile anything. I don't even main the guy and I was advocatin' for him to be beefed up. I was lookin' at some SFII vids and I was thinkin' it was a damn shame that they just let him go like that in this game. Hell, he doesn't even have any good Ultras. To win wit him, you gotta work like hell. What I am hopin' is that maybe that leavin' him unchanged might make'im more useful because of the game's speed boost. It's a shame too cuz skilled Guile players are very good.

I was saddened when I heard Guy wasn't as fast but he is the only cat wit chain combos so who knows how he may turn out, I just hope that doesn't make'im "broken".

You do know that Fei Long's Ultra is a counter? Peeps have been RAGIN' about this. I don't really understand what the problem wit that is, oh well.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Just incase nobody saw it yet, trailer of Hakan:

YouTube video

Is this guy supposed to be a living bar of soap?

Oh lawd.. I just heard chuns kikoushou can do full damage even if you wiff and just the last hit connects? D:

and also juri's fireball goes under most fireballs (except possibly low tiger) o_O?

also heard that adon is pretty crappy.. slow startup on most of his specials or something of that sort

and No, Sin.. he's a turkish oil wrestler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%C4%9Fl%C4%B1_g%C3%BCre%C5%9F

Missed the edit time, but I'd totally like to see this Ibuki player use her in SSFIV

YouTube video