Originally posted by Inhuman
Lastly the speed blitz nonsense. Surfer deals with cosmic foes 90% of the time whom most have super speed. It rarely is a problem.
Fighting someone who has super speed means nothing if they don't use it. SS fights guys that either don't use super speed on him or not at all.
Originally posted by h1a8
Fighting someone who has super speed means nothing if they don't use it. SS fights guys that either don't use super speed on him or not at all.
So in your opinion super speed trumps all no matter how poweful the foe?
As long as you have super speed your guaranteed the win right.
So superman would beat Galactus no problem since he has no speed feats to suggest he could keep up with superman.
Surfer is a cosmic being. He travels and reacts at way past light speeds. Why would this be a problem to him.
Jesus ****ing christ the speed blitz BS is getting outa hand in alot of vs. fights. 🙄
Originally posted by InhumanI believe he said before that normal Supes would beat Rune King Thor... 😐
So in your opinion super speed trumps all no matter how poweful the foe?
As long as you have super speed your guaranteed the win right.
So superman would beat Galactus no problem since he has no speed feats to suggest he could keep up with superman.
Surfer is a cosmic being. He travels and reacts at way past light speeds. Why would this be a problem to him.Jesus ****ing christ these speed blitz BS is getting outa hand in alot of vs. fights. 🙄
And, they can be omniversal, but it means nothing if they don't have speed, or something like that...
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I believe he said before that normal Supes would beat Rune King Thor... 😐And, they can be omniversal, but it means nothing if they don't have speed, or something like that...
heh, i missed that one but acording to his arguments I dont doubt he genuinly belives that.
Also his combo crap is kinda lame as well 😬
Originally posted by Inhuman
So in your opinion super speed trumps all no matter how poweful the foe?...So superman would beat Galactus no problem since he has no speed feats to suggest he could keep up with superman.
Excellent point, but what the hell: just for argument's sake, let's say Superman can move fast enough to strike first (a point which remains debatable). Next question: is he strong enough to take the Surfer out before the Surfer can retaliate?
Other ways to word the question: Can Superman maintain the speedblitz long enough? My recollections of Superman using speedblitzing is that it is a short-duration technique.
Put another way: is the Surfer durable enough to survive and launch a defense / counterattack? At the very least, SS's durability can be repeatedly shown to be comparable to Superman's (a quick perusal of the Surfer's respect thread would prove this).
Originally posted by Inhuman
So in your opinion super speed trumps all no matter how poweful the foe?
As long as you have super speed your guaranteed the win right.
So superman would beat Galactus no problem since he has no speed feats to suggest he could keep up with superman.
Surfer is a cosmic being. He travels and reacts at way past light speeds. Why would this be a problem to him.Jesus ****ing christ the speed blitz BS is getting outa hand in alot of vs. fights. 🙄
Cosmic beings travel way past light speeds. But why must cosmic beings react way past light speeds? Its not in their resume. Have they ever shown it? No!. Firelord surely didn't show light-speed reactions against Spider-man or against anyone else in his career (same as SS).
Speed only rules if the user has the power to jarr and knockout (or kill) the adversary. I doubt that Superman can even hurt Galactus sufficiently for his speed to work on him.
Originally posted by h1a8
Cosmic beings travel way past light speeds. But why must cosmic beings react way past light speeds? Its not in their resume. Have they ever shown it? No!. Firelord surely didn't show light-speed reactions against Spider-man or against anyone else in his career (same as SS).Speed only rules if the user has the power to jarr and knockout (or kill) the adversary. I doubt that Superman can even hurt Galactus sufficiently for his speed to work on him.
Spiderman vs Firelord was major PIS. We even had a rule called SvFL ha-son
Anyway heres one from Starhawk but not Firelord.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If your high-herald I think it does, or sub-skyfather level. 😐Starhawk is comparable in power with SS. Obvoulsy Starhawk has FTL reflexes. Another guy that Hollywood beat, beat the **** out of Firelord, you cant do that if you're slow. 😐
Thats one speed feat from Starhawk and Hollywood as roughing this guy up.
http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=88802_firell3_122_513lo.jpg
I mean what the hell do you think is going on here, they're going as slow as possible?
http://img143.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc193&image=80354_initial2.jpg
http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc54&image=80362_initial3.jpg
Or here...
http://img16.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc111&image=80566_crusade11.jpg
http://img145.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc197&image=80721_crusade13.jpg
They're not just fightign they're using their speed as well. You know how fast they can travel you dont think it wouldnt need uber reflexes to hit an opponent flying at those speeds? 😐
Can you see SS dodging these missles at point blank?.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3122/silversurferv306103cj4.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/373/silversurferv306104ma8.jpg
You know missles are faster than bullets right?
Originally posted by Mindship
Excellent point, but what the hell: just for argument's sake, let's say Superman can move fast enough to strike first (a point which remains debatable). Next question: is he strong enough to take the Surfer out before the Surfer can retaliate?Other ways to word the question: Can Superman maintain the speedblitz long enough? My recollections of Superman using speedblitzing is that it is a short-duration technique.
Put another way: is the Surfer durable enough to survive and launch a defense / counterattack? At the very least, SS's durability can be repeatedly shown to be comparable to Superman's (a quick perusal of the Surfer's respect thread would prove this).
A stunning hit followed by one or more successive manuevers that are applied before the opponent can recover from the stunned state is a called a combo. Combos are unstoppable after the first hit
by definition. See Street Fighter II or Marvel vs. Capcom video game for examples of what combos are.
The combo to ko principle states that if one is suceptible to both being stunned and koed by sufficient force, then with sufficient speed, power, and stamina he/she/it can be comboed until ko after the first hit is landed.
Superman is not only fast enough to hit SS first but he is fast enough to continue to string successive hits to become a combo. The combo ends when SS is Koed or dead.
For the doubters I will explain in other words.
Combos fail when the foe recovers (and can take action) before the next strike is made. This happens when either the successive strike wasn't applied fast enough or the previous strike had no stunning effect. And if it does happen then the string of hits wasn't a true combo. Thus by definition, a combo cannot fail after the first hit, otherwise it isn't a combo.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I believe he said before that normal Supes would beat Rune King Thor... 😐And, they can be omniversal, but it means nothing if they don't have speed, or something like that...
It was PC Superman (not normal) and Superman 1 million. Get your fact's straight.
With that said, I do think normal Superman is fast enough to hit RKT first.
Originally posted by h1a8
A stunning hit followed by one or more successive manuevers that are applied before the opponent can recover from the stunned state is a called a [B]combo. Combos are unstoppable after the first hit
by definition. See Street Fighter II or Marvel vs. Capcom video game for examples of what combos are.The combo to ko principle states that if one is suceptible to both being stunned and koed by sufficient force, then with sufficient speed, power, and stamina he/she/it can be comboed until ko after the first hit is landed.
Superman is not only fast enough to hit SS first but he is fast enough to continue to string successive hits to become a combo. The combo ends when SS is Koed or dead.
For the doubters I will explain in other words.
Combos fail when the foe recovers (and can take action) before the next strike is made. This happens when either the successive strike wasn't applied fast enough or the previous strike had no stunning effect. And if it does happen then the string of hits wasn't a true combo. Thus by definition, a combo cannot fail after the first hit, otherwise it isn't a combo. [/B]
how many Superman punches would equal oneTeneberous smash?
or say 1/10th of a Galactus smash?
now times that by 5 (in the case of Teneberous) and that's the minimum duration Superman's proposed speedblitz would need to last to even harm Surfer. of course, that's without Surfer fighting back or killing Superman with some hideous energy rip and manip.
how about Surfer dumping Superman at the end of the DC timeline?
all he has to do is read Superman's mind to find the location, then he teleports Superman there and leaves him to die 🙂.
I hope I dont have to break this feat down to you hia8
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg
😐
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I hope I dont have to break this feat down to you hia8http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg
😐
Originally posted by Phantom Zonemaybe true but firelord has shown no
Spiderman vs Firelord was major PIS. We even had a rule called SvFL ha-son
Anyway heres one from Starhawk but not Firelord.
They're not necessarily traveling very fast. These scans don't show Superman level reflexes (not even great level ones) or even great speed. The speed of sound is more than sufficient do move in evasive action to avoid someone shooting at you. Hell, Captain America can dodge lasers by evasive movement.
I mean what the hell do you think is going on here, they're going as slow as possible?http://img143.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc193&image=80354_initial2.jpg
http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc54&image=80362_initial3.jpgOr here...
http://img16.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc111&image=80566_crusade11.jpg
http://img145.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc197&image=80721_crusade13.jpgThey're not just fightign they're using their speed as well. You know how fast they can travel you dont think it wouldnt need uber reflexes to hit an opponent flying at those speeds? 😐
And why are you arguing that SS has superhuman reflexes and speed? I know that is true. Its just that SS don't have the reflexes to stop Superman from hitting him first. Nor does SS have the instant speed (great speed obtained the very first instant) like Superman does.
Can you see SS dodging these missles at point blank?.http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3122/silversurferv306103cj4.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/373/silversurferv306104ma8.jpgYou know missles are faster than bullets right?
False. Not all things are equal. Only large nuclear missles can travel faster than a bullet. Also, your reasoning is faulty. Missles move very slow at launch. They accelerate to bullet speed and beyond only after traveling some seconds.
Originally posted by Mindship
So then the question can be simplified: Is Superman fast and strong enough to combo/ko the Surfer? Of course, I say thee, Nay (for reasons posted prior).
Superman is strong enough to stun surfer with his punches. Remember, SS stays stunned for a long time (more than a second) when he gets hit by super physical blunt force.
Thus Superman is clearly fast enough to string additional hits to form combos bringing the combo to ko principle into existence.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is strong enough to stun surfer with his punches. Remember, SS stays stunned for a long time (more than a second) when he gets hit by super physical blunt force.
Thus Superman is clearly fast enough to string additional hits to form combos bringing the combo to ko principle into existence.
Hulk's punches can rip through dimensional barriers yet when Surfer wanted to, he could take them with NO ILL EFFECT whatsoever.
Superman's punches << Hulk's 😐.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I hope I dont have to break this feat down to you hia8http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg
😐
I've seen nearly all SS feats. So you know I seen this one.
SS has cosmic awareness. He can sense out the Earth a one time. Hell he can sense things light years away. No way did he physically lift each garbage lid on the Earth looking.
Originally posted by h1a8
I've seen nearly all SS feats. So you know I seen this one.SS has cosmic awareness. He can sense out the Earth a one time. Hell he can sense things light years away. No way did he physically lift each garbage lid on the Earth looking.
yes, that makes sense ...
*stabs a fork in his brain* well, now it makes complete sense! 😄
Originally posted by janus77
rofl.Hulk's punches can rip through dimensional barriers yet when Surfer wanted to, he could take them with NO ILL EFFECT whatsoever.
Superman's punches << Hulk's 😐.
False. Hulk's strength is variable. He could have been punching SS with only base strength. Plus SS was definitely stunned from his hit.
Where do you get that NO ILL EFFECT from?
Punching through dimensional barriers doesn't require strength but either speed (or some exotic energy).
Superman also can punch through dimensional barriers. And everyone here would agree with me (neither is it debatable) that on average Superman's punches>>Hulk's.
