Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by quanchi112
No he wont get his ass handed to him. Did you see how Superman did against Kalibak and Mantis? He got knocked out. Good thing Orion was there or he would have died.

Why also didnt he use his speed to avoid the shadow demons in death of the new gods?

i havent been reading DOTNG, is this all in that?

Originally posted by carver9
I forgot the name of the ship but it was some ship that him and the jla were fighting in space and all of them were severly injured.

k...

You made good points that is hard to debate against but I just see it like this, superman entire rogue gallery is nothing but bricks and when he fight people that possess speed like general zod, supergirl, wonderwoman, black adam, captain marvel, etc... the humans around are able to see every blow that is thrown, so we cant assume that he has combat speed when he dont portray it in comics.

who says the humans can see it? if they did it accurate speed, the pages would most likely be a blur...

Now I do agree, superman has great flight speed, it has grown a lot for some years but its not something that would give him a 50/50 or a majority over surfer.

personally, i believe in terms of flight speed, surfer>supes...

In this battle, there have been numerous of ways that surfer can put superman out but people can bringing up one way that superman can take surfer out and that might not even work against surfer since he is arguably one of the most durable characters in comics. Surfer recently got punched so hard by annihitus that it crushed the entire moon but surfer got right back up. does superman possess that kind of punching power. We cant say yes because theres no on panel proof, we cant even say that he possess strength even close to crushing a moon because again theres no on panel proof.

alright, granted, but how often do we see superman fight in open space? surfer has a hell of alot more fights in space, where you can really cut loose, superman mostly fights on earth where he has to keep himself in check... im not making excuses, but i think its worth considering...

I give surfer a good majority against superman, just to much leaning his way.

as would i, assuming surfer is using the pc as deftly as he usually does...

Originally posted by h1a8
1. The Godblast occurred a sufficient amount of times
to not be PIS. I indeed used faulty reasoning (I admit).
2. True but SS never attacked nor defended while in it.
3. False. It was plenty of times humans manually maneuvered ships traveling warp speed (in comics). Star trek is a different story though. For they do use their computers heavily.
4. The thing with Jet pilots is that things are far enough away for them to react to.
5. Yes SS has superhuman reactions. But not on the level of evading a Superman blitz. Why? Because he has never shown it in battle (only the contrary).
6. If it can be inferred, then Torch can easily react to bullets and other fast stuff (even slow stuff too). But the comics show the contrary.
Torch only has human reactions. So flying and maneuvering at mach speeds with only human reactions is just how comics are. Thus in comics flight speed is not battle speed.

As mentioned above, our debate is centering on whether the Surfer's reflex speed is comparable to Superman's. If one sticks to a more literal interpretation of on-panel feats, it would appear he does not. If one infers, it can be logically argued that the Surfer is comparable to Superman in reflex/combat speed.

You've raised admirable points, but I think it is clear that neither of us are gonna sway the other.

Originally posted by pr1983
i havent been reading DOTNG, is this all in that?

k...

who says the humans can see it? if they did it accurate speed, the pages would most likely be a blur...

personally, i believe in terms of flight speed, surfer>supes...

alright, granted, but how often do we see superman fight in open space? surfer has a hell of alot more fights in space, where you can really cut loose, superman mostly fights on earth where he has to keep himself in check... im not making excuses, but i think its worth considering...

as would i, assuming surfer is using the pc as deftly as he usually does...

I dont understand, why we was debating against each other if our ending answers was the same. You are a good debator though and I was kind of scared of reading your next post. I thought you were going to run me in the ground.

You are right about the punching power, superman is earth based and that would be a feat (moon crushing) that we might never know of, since his battles take place on earth.

Originally posted by carver9
I dont understand, why we was debating against each other if our ending answers was the same. You are a good debator though and I was kind of scared of reading your next post. I thought you were going to run me in the ground.

You are right about the punching power, superman is earth based and that would be a feat (moon crushing) that we might never know of, since his battles take place on earth.

lol... i only run people into the ground if i think they're being unreasonable, or badabing, but thats neither here nor there...

i'd give surfer a big majority if he's firing on all cylinders, but in a way its his versatility that limits him imo... imo he must use a red sun or kryptonite attack, or else he ends up getting stuck in a battle with someone who is faster (reflex wise), stronger and more durable... superman is highly resistant to pretty much everything else bar magic (and i dont think the power cosmic is classified as magic), so he'd give surfer a fight imo...

Originally posted by pr1983
i havent been reading DOTNG, is this all in that?

k...

who says the humans can see it? if they did it accurate speed, the pages would most likely be a blur...

personally, i believe in terms of flight speed, surfer>supes...

alright, granted, but how often do we see superman fight in open space? surfer has a hell of alot more fights in space, where you can really cut loose, superman mostly fights on earth where he has to keep himself in check... im not making excuses, but i think its worth considering...

as would i, assuming surfer is using the pc as deftly as he usually does...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes it was in issue 5 I believe of death of the new gods.

ill give it a read if i get the chance...

Originally posted by pr1983
lol... i only run people into the ground if i think they're being unreasonable, or badabing, but thats neither here nor there...

i'd give surfer a big majority if he's firing on all cylinders, but in a way its his versatility that limits him imo... imo he must use a red sun or kryptonite attack, or else he ends up getting stuck in a battle with someone who is faster (reflex wise), stronger and more durable... superman is highly resistant to pretty much everything else bar magic (and i dont think the power cosmic is classified as magic), so he'd give surfer a fight imo...

I know for a fact that he will give surfer a run for his money because superman has the greatest will power in comics but me an you kind of see things the same and kind of see things different but I know after this battle surfer will be hurting.

Originally posted by carver9
I know for a fact that he will give surfer a run for his money because superman has the greatest will power in comics but me an you kind of see things the same and kind of see things different but I know after this battle surfer will be hurting.

aye...

A doubt that Superman can take on Surfer unless he knows a good armbar tactic. But on the other hand Superman might be too fast for Surfer to see and again cosmic powers are above Supes in my opinion.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you when it comes to reaction speed but both havent shown anything to make them look impressive in that category. Both have failed to react to bricks and both have been taken down by bricks so to me there reaction speed is flawed in this combat.

Now I give superman the edge in strength, even though surfer can amp his strength with his cosmic powers but durabity,that edge goes to surfer since it take a extreme measure of contact to pierce his skin but in almost every comic with superman he either has a bloody nose or a black eye. In the kalibak and mantis fight he suffered from a bloody nose and black eye.

The only way superman can even pull a victory against the surfer is with strength, whereas surfer has maaaaaaaaaany options at taking superman out. If a space ship can almost kill superman, imagine what surfer cosmic powers can to do him.

Originally posted by Mindship
1. "Sufficient amount of times"? Sounds very subjective.

2. The Surfer has attacked and defended many times at extreme speed; one could even infer FTL from the distances involved. The thing is, since hyperspace wasn't mentioned in the OP, the hyperspace point is irrelevant, anyway.

3. If they did this w/o explicitly mentioning tech aid, then either it can be logically inferred that tech was used, or like so many other things in comics, physics (and sometimes common sense) are conveniently ignored.

4. That's what I said (ie, combat distance making things manageable).

5. Well, this is the whole point of our debate, where we disagree.

6. Again, commonsense or physics are ignored. This is the thing about comics: they're not science or even science fiction texts; they don't delve into the nuances of having a given power. But if one reads between the lines (inferential reasoning; we do it all the time), one can logically infer certain secondary abilities required for the character to use their primary abilities. That, or just ignore common sense / real-world physics (which is generally the route comics take).

As mentioned above, our debate is centering on whether the Surfer's reflex speed is comparable to Superman's. If one sticks to a more literal interpretation of on-panel feats, it would appear he does not. If one infers, it can be logically argued that the Surfer is comparable to Superman in reflex/combat speed.

You've raised admirable points, but I think it is clear that neither of us are gonna sway the other.

Originally posted by h1a8
"Statistically throughout their career" must mean at least 3 times. So I myself use the 3 time minimum rule (unless they have shown it recently).
Extreme speed is light speed of beyond (when facing Superman). And SS has not traveled vast distances when
attacking nor defending to infer FTL travel. At best, he would travel FTL and then when he nears his target comes out of hyperspace and travels sublight speeds towards the target.
Most comics go against common sense. Flying thru asteroid belts with a joystick at great speeds requires great reactions for a human. Yet in comics humans only have human battle reactions no matter how fast they can manually guide a ship with a joystick.
I think battefield distance is only 0.5km away. Hardly any manageable distance for reaction against Superman.
True. It's that I have read many SS and Superman comics and thus I would be honestly lying to myself if I think that SS can dodge a Superman blitz. I feel deep down in my soul that
SS can't do this. Otherwise I wouldn't be arguing this.
It's hard to infer when there are contradictions everywhere. And if we infer then we must do it correctly. For example, what if it is other factors involved that we didn't think about , like it being psychological that SS can't react to up close battle situations efficiently. Or that SS definitely has the reactions but can't generate the necessary speed from a standstill to avoid an attack from a Superman level attack. I've seen scans that showed SS was only able to generate the speed of a bullet within the first second. But after that second he achieved light speed and beyond.
I do not believe that it can be inferred that SS is comparable to Superman in reflex and combat speed based solely off of SS's navigation speed. SS must not only be able to react to Superman but he must be able to move his body (or limbs) out of the way. And it seems that SS always need to build up speed for he has never obtained sufficient speed the very first instant (right off the bat) the way Superman has. Its like Superman's first step is much quicker than SS's.
Thanks! You have too. Probably neither one of us is going to sway. But trust me, I will be quicker to sway if either I see something recent that SS has done or see a few things from his past that convinces me. I love SS and would choose to have his powers and abilities over Superman's any day. That is why I'm praying for SS to have super instant speed and reactions.

Got a question for ya. when I or anyone else ask to show superman amazing speed blitz why are the same scans used for superman, like him fighting imperex, him fighting mongul and the doomsday. If superman is this amazing blitzing god, why isnt there any other scans to provide proof of this. If I was to ask you for proof that flash could speed blitz do you think that the same scans would show up everytime its asked for flash. The sad thing about this is that superman has been out for ages and people consider him to be so far above a lot of people in speed but I can get another speedster, example, quicksilver and he has done more blitzes then superman could dream of.

I can get a quicksilver comic and it will have the enemies saying that quicksilver is to fast to battle, can you all show me a instance where a superman villian stated this.

Superman isnt a combat speedster. he has great flight speed but his combat speed is next to nothing and the little that you all have shown I can show you scans of wolverine or spiderman doing the same thing.

Just had a thought of something, even though I know this isnt cannon, we all consider spiderman and venom to be kind of fast when fighting opponent. When superman fought spiderman, superman couldnt even react to spiderman attacks. When superman fought venom, superman couldnt even react to venom, venom basically overwhelmed him but when superman fought a brick like hulk, kalibak, etc... superman went toe to toe with them. Even when superman tried to capture deathstroke he was having problems doing so.

Supermans combat speed is next to nothing just like surfers combat speed.

Originally posted by Inhuman

Lulz. Even if surfer absorbed just 1/8 of the red star it is far FAAAR greater than the solar energy superman is packing.
Superman has a limit area space that makes up his body. Mass + Area, that would hold all his solar energy reserves.

Pure and utter speculation. You're under the assumption that just because the star was red, it must be bigger than the sun.

Actually, red dwarfs make up the vast majority of stars in the universe. So it's much more likely that Norrin was trying to absorb the energies of a red dwarf star, in which case, it was much smaller than our sun.

And even 1/8th of the star seems to be a generous estimation here, considering most of the star's structural integrity was intact afterward.

Originally posted by Inhuman
That shit would be childs play to SS. He would drain him effortlessly with both hands tied behind his nutsack.

And you really have failed to grasp the concept that Surfer attempting to "drain" Superman would have absolutely no effect. The second any energy reserves leaves Superman's body, he'll immediately absorb more energy from the sun to fill the void in his cells.

Originally posted by batdude123
Pure and utter speculation. You're under the assumption that just because the star was red, it must be bigger than the sun.

Actually, red dwarfs make up the vast majority of stars in the universe. So it's much more likely that Norrin was trying to absorb the energies of a red dwarf star, in which case, it was much smaller than our sun.

And even 1/8th of the star seems to be a generous estimation here, considering most of the star's structural integrity was intact afterward.

And you really have failed to grasp the concept that Surfer attempting to "drain" Superman would have absolutely no effect. The second any energy reserves leaves Superman's body, he'll immediately absorb more energy from the sun to fill the void in his cells.

oh he will have more energy to absorb huh, well parisite seem not to have a problem absorbing all of supermans energy.

Originally posted by carver9
oh he will have more energy to absorb huh, well parisite seem not to have a problem absorbing all of supermans energy.

As far as I know, what Parasite does has absolutely nothing to do with "solar energy absorption."

Originally posted by batdude123
As far as I know, what Parasite does has absolutely nothing to do with "solar energy absorption."

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Then how does Parasite drain him? How does he bypass Superman's biofield?

I'm not sure, but when Parasite absorbs someone, he also takes their intelligence and memories.

Therefore, I don't think it's correct to make a correlation between Surfer absorbing solar energy and what Parasite does. 🙂

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm not sure, but when Parasite absorbs someone, he also takes their intelligence and memories.

Therefore, I don't think it's correct to make a correlation between Surfer absorbing solar energy and what Parasite does. 🙂

Surfer could take the fight to the Astral plain, prolly totally disorientate Superman there.

Surfer could also just block out solar energies in a 2mm layer just above superman's body... preventing Superman from receiving any solar energies... then just easily drain him or let him use up the stored solar energies.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
So Parasite can bypass the biofield, then?

And appearently the power dampeners from wwh can bypass surfers power cosmic...

Your point?