Originally posted by Mindset
I'll ask this again, what point are you even trying to make?What is the purpose of saying what other charaters could do when I was only talking about SS?
I believe he's saying that the Silver Surfer would have to solo the JLA which contains members, any of which could ALSO solo the JLA if they fought in the same manner you're trying to have the Surfer fight.
Basically, you have to either have everyone fight 'in character' or everyone fight at the fullest extent of their powerset.
You'll only have the Surfer winning if the JLA fight like morons, and the Surfer uses every single power he has at his disposal to it's utmost.
Originally posted by Soljer
I believe he's saying that the Silver Surfer would have to solo the JLA which contains members, any of which could ALSO solo the JLA if they fought in the same manner you're trying to have the Surfer fight.Basically, you have to either have everyone fight 'in character' or everyone fight at the fullest extent of their powerset.
You'll only have the Surfer winning if the JLA fight like morons, and the Surfer uses every single power he has at his disposal to it's utmost.
What I was saying is it is possibly for SS to beat the JLA if he was ooc and they were in character.
I don't have to have everyone fight either in character or ooc in this scenario I'm speaking about because it has no bearing on what I was saying...
Fighting like morons and being in character or fighting as they normally do are two completely different things.
Originally posted by Soljer
I believe he's saying that the Silver Surfer would have to solo the JLA which contains members, any of which could ALSO solo the JLA if they fought in the same manner you're trying to have the Surfer fight.Basically, you have to either have everyone fight 'in character' or everyone fight at the fullest extent of their powerset.
You'll only have the Surfer winning if the JLA fight like morons, and the Surfer uses every single power he has at his disposal to it's utmost.
It's different fighting in a group than fighting solo, because the group is having to watch out for each other while the solo fighter can blast away with abandon. That's why the Hulk's always able to give the Avengers such a hard time.
Of course I'm not saying that I think Surfer would solo the JLA with ease, but it's at least as possible for him to pull it off as it is for Supes.
Originally posted by dvampire
Supes wins. I think fighting h2h with superior strength, better fighting speed, and HV or CB works alot better than Surfer's trying to figure out weaknesses and then using energy blasts.
Originally posted by darthgooberHowever, only his weakness to green kryptonite is common knowledge, the others types, and red sun, are not. I don't even think the fact that it's the radiation from it that does it, is common knowledge, as villains have been poisoned from it as well - obviously from their lack of knowledge.
It's not a matter of Surfer figuring out Supes's weaknesses because he knows about them going into the match(it's specifically covered under forum rules in fact).
Originally posted by Juntai
However, only his weakness to green kryptonite is common knowledge, the others types, and red sun, are not. I don't even think the fact that it's the radiation from it that does it, is common knowledge, as villains have been poisoned from it as well - obviously from their lack of knowledge.
Besides, let's assume for a second that you and the rest of Supes's fans are right and Surfer would have to "scan" Supes to find out the details on his weaknesses, how long does it take him to use his Cosmic Awarness to pick up specific details on this astronaut...
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3729/silversurfer0102cq5.jpg
Or the Rigellian on this ship...
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5489/cospowunlim199600411no5.jpg
Or this monster(and this one's in the middle of combat)...
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6267/secretdefenders25p06ov3.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1853/secretdefenders25p07mc1.jpg
And how much time does he seem to spend scanning to "analyse" the weaknesses of the Vision or Wonderman before he can use them here(again in the middle of combat)...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/surfer2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/surfer3.jpg
Originally posted by darthgoober
Superman is the most popular and widely known hero on DC Earth and the various news papers and television stations go out of their way to feature any info on him they can get their hands on. I'm willing to bet that there's almost as many people who know about Red Sun as there is people who know about K-Nite. Just because K-nite was the specifically sited example, that doesn't mean that it's all the info his opponents get.Besides, let's assume for a second that you and the rest of Supes's fans are right and Surfer would have to "scan" Supes to find out the details on his weaknesses, how long does it take him to use his Cosmic Awarness to pick up specific details on this astronaut...
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3729/silversurfer0102cq5.jpg
Or the Rigellian on this ship...
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5489/cospowunlim199600411no5.jpgOr this monster(and this one's in the middle of combat)...
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6267/secretdefenders25p06ov3.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1853/secretdefenders25p07mc1.jpgAnd how much time does he seem to spend scanning to "analyse" the weaknesses of the Vision or Wonderman before he can use them here(again in the middle of combat)...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/surfer2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/surfer3.jpg
Yeah but none of those guys are as fast as Superman, huh? While SS is scanning Superman, Superman will be punching him in the face. 😐
Its also speculation as well it doesnt say how fast he did ithe scanning either, for all we know it could have taken minutes. 😛
Originally posted by darthgooberWhere did I say he'd have to take time to scan for weakness?
Superman is the most popular and widely known hero on DC Earth and the various news papers and television stations go out of their way to feature any info on him they can get their hands on. I'm willing to bet that there's almost as many people who know about Red Sun as there is people who know about K-Nite. Just because K-nite was the specifically sited example, that doesn't mean that it's all the info his opponents get.Besides, let's assume for a second that you and the rest of Supes's fans are right and Surfer would have to "scan" Supes to find out the details on his weaknesses, how long does it take him to use his Cosmic Awarness to pick up specific details on this astronaut...
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3729/silversurfer0102cq5.jpg
Or the Rigellian on this ship...
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5489/cospowunlim199600411no5.jpgOr this monster(and this one's in the middle of combat)...
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6267/secretdefenders25p06ov3.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1853/secretdefenders25p07mc1.jpgAnd how much time does he seem to spend scanning to "analyse" the weaknesses of the Vision or Wonderman before he can use them here(again in the middle of combat)...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/surfer2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/surfer3.jpg
At least, the poll shows that common sense is prevailing over sentimentalism. Really, the main point for superman is that he has faster reaction times than SS which is extremely debatable. And even if this debatable fact is accepted, he is not going to ko ss with a few hits as ss is hella durable. That being said it is really ridiculous to think that superman would hit ss, so many times that he would ko him before ss could even put up a forcefield or something. Superman is just way to one dimensional for a character like ss to lose to even once without ss behaving like some sort of idiot at one point of the fight or the other. SS is on par with supes physically and could at least hang with supes in physical fight for sometime. However if you add the power comic to s which gives him a countless amount of extra abilities, superman goes down for the count.
Dont know why its a double standard to some just because its superman.If I may speculate about this...
Superman is The Icon, the Superheroes' Superhero. He is the modern incarnation of the Hero archetype in purest form, the father of a whole genre. In the comic world - arguably even in the real world - he is a symbol of hope and inspiration (I had heard once that the "S" shield is the third most widely recognized symbol on the planet). He represents the best in human beings: our nobility, our refusal to buckle under overwhelming odds. It's almost as if you can't have PIS with Superman because, if he were to lose a challenge, it would be like undermining the indomitability of the human spirit. You either love him for it or you hate him for it, but Superman - almost by definition - will/should always come out on top (especially given his physical power and strength of will). More than with any other hero, this seems to be the essential nature of the character.
Having said that: it would be easy for me (at least) to envision Superman winning a majority against the Surfer. Power Cosmic pales against the Man of Steel's ability to draw energy through the Fourth Wall (I hope people know what I mean by that).
However: is this fair?
That depends on how you go into this match. Personally, I like to keep the characters on even turf (ie, no Fourth Wall energy). Under those terms, Surfer obviously wins, because as someone crisply put it, the Surfer is Superman Plus.
However, if you choose to regard Superman as the way I wrote above, then no matter what the Surfer does, the "essential nature" of The Icon will rise to the fore and triumph.
Originally posted by Mindship
If I may speculate about this...Superman is The Icon, the Superheroes' Superhero. He is the modern incarnation of the Hero archetype in purest form, the father of a whole genre. In the comic world - arguably even in the real world - he is a symbol of hope and inspiration (I had heard once that the "S" shield is the third most widely recognized symbol on the planet). He represents the best in human beings: our nobility, our refusal to buckle under overwhelming odds. It's almost as if you can't have PIS with Superman because, if he were to lose a challenge, it would be like undermining the indomitability of the human spirit. You either love him for it or you hate him for it, but Superman - almost by definition - will/should always come out on top (especially given his physical power and strength of will). More than with any other hero, this seems to be the essential nature of the character.
Having said that: it would be easy for me (at least) to envision Superman winning a majority against the Surfer. Power cosmic pales against the Man of Steel's ability to draw energy through the Fourth Wall (I hope people know what I mean by that).
However: is this fair?
That depends on how you go into this match. Personally, I like to keep the characters on even turf (ie, no Fourth Wall energy). Under those terms, Surfer obviously wins, because as someone crisply put it, the Surfer is Superman Plus.
However, if you choose to regard Superman as the way I wrote above, then no matter what the Surfer does, the "essential nature" of The Icon will rise to the fore and triumph.
It must be hard for some people to envision superman an icon and the comical embodiment of nobility, losing to some bald silver guy on a surfboard.
Originally posted by MindshipSuperman wont die in comics. That much is true but this isnt a storyline and no characters have to die off here. Surfer wins hands down. He wins a heavy majority.
If I may speculate about this...Superman is The Icon, the Superheroes' Superhero. He is the modern incarnation of the Hero archetype in purest form, the father of a whole genre. In the comic world - arguably even in the real world - he is a symbol of hope and inspiration (I had heard once that the "S" shield is the third most widely recognized symbol on the planet). He represents the best in human beings: our nobility, our refusal to buckle under overwhelming odds. It's almost as if you can't have PIS with Superman because, if he were to lose a challenge, it would be like undermining the indomitability of the human spirit. You either love him for it or you hate him for it, but Superman - almost by definition - will/should always come out on top (especially given his physical power and strength of will). More than with any other hero, this seems to be the essential nature of the character.
Having said that: it would be easy for me (at least) to envision Superman winning a majority against the Surfer. Power cosmic pales against the Man of Steel's ability to draw energy through the Fourth Wall (I hope people know what I mean by that).
However: is this fair?
That depends on how you go into this match. Personally, I like to keep the characters on even turf (ie, no Fourth Wall energy). Under those terms, Surfer obviously wins, because as someone crisply put it, the Surfer is Superman Plus.
However, if you choose to regard Superman as the way I wrote above, then no matter what the Surfer does, the "essential nature" of The Icon will rise to the fore and triumph.
With everything that you just said and I do agree but this is a hero here. Superman hasnt defeated Orion yet has he? Nope and he wouldnt stalemate the Surfer either.
Originally posted by Mindset
If he could use his powers in ways he has never done before, but that are conceivebly possibly, then he could.
Almost agreed but not sure about the whole jla by himself but he could take out most of them himself. Then again if he can actually create blackholes in their pupils and expand their electrons till they are no longer in existence as he has claimed in the past but never done because of the holding back thing then he could wreck the jla( using all his powers of course)
