Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by fangirl101
It's simple math and logic and probability. Superman and Surfer have about the same level of power overall. Surfer has more versatile powers. Superman is stronger and a bit tuffer. And has faster battle Speeds. Superman has exploitable weaknesses that just happen to be right up Surfer's alley. So really. Superman gets a few wins based upon the hand to hand and speed combo. After that, Surfer just owns him. This thread would be different if it were Black adam. Surfer would have a much tuffer time IMO. But Sueprman can't win more than 3. Not according to KMC rules. In a comic, yes, Superman would win everytime.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I personally see it as Surfer 8-9/10 with the reintroduction of Gold K-nite and Supes's recent poor showings against red sunlight. No holds barred and under forum rules this is really Surfer's fight to lose because Surfer has entirely too many counters to Supes's relatively limited arsenal. Barring weakness exploitation though I'd only give Surfer 6-7/10 against Supes(or someone like BA for that matter).

Originally posted by fangirl101
There are so many wavelengths of krpytonite tho. And one has to not only get the right color right but from the right universe. Without proper time to study, I don't know if Gold K-Nite would really be something Surfer could just whip up. Not at the speeds Superman can fight at.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Gold K-nite doesn't factor in nearly as much as Red Sun does in my assessment. I'm not saying Surfer would automatically start throwing around Gold K-nite but the potential is there and it's absolutely devastating to Supes. Gold K-nite is something that I'd see appearing in the later stages of the battle if it's used but once it does the fight's over. And given that despite it's rarity it's still just another form of K-nite which means it's just a matter of shifting frequencies(so it's creation shouldn't really be a problem).

Originally posted by fangirl101
As I see it, Surfer doesn't have infinite knowlege. If he did, he'd have been killed Thanos. So I don't but the K-nite thing so much as surfer sensing that Superman is processing yellow sunlight and blocking him, draining him or trying different frequencies of sunlight till he finds the red. Only problem is that Superman is so fast, that figuring stuff out is a problem.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He doesn't need infinite knowledge. Surfer STARTS the fight aware of Supes's vulnerability to k-nite radiation, after that it's just a matter of using his senses and Cosmic Awareness to pick up the necessary frequency. And Surfer's Cosmic Awareness can pick up details pretty quick...
http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssenslavers39bd2.jpg

That's all fine and dandy when your appraising a situation where no one can harm you. Superman can move faster than the time it takes surfer to appraise and with enough force to make the infinity man amped back down. Cosmic Awareness doesn't do much if you ask me. At least not for the first 3 matches.

Originally posted by fangirl101
That's all fine and dandy when your appraising a situation where no one can harm you. Superman can move faster than the time it takes surfer to appraise and with enough force to make the infinity man amped back down. Cosmic Awareness doesn't do much if you ask me. At least not for the first 3 matches.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Proof that Supes would/could be on Surfer in less than a microsecond?

Originally posted by fangirl101
Didn't he fly from The Sun to the earth to follow wondy? He wasn't even in his right mind and she was flying more than 9 times the speed of light. There are a trillion speed feats. He built an entire city in moments.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Niether of those are speed blitzes. What's the fastest speed Supes has blitzed at?

Originally posted by fangirl101
Who knows. We know that he blitzed DS. And DS does have insane reaction speeds. So Superman actually got around those reaction speeds with a bonafide blitz in Superman Batman.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait what issue did he pull off a successful blitz on DS? I've seen both catch the other off guard and land a successful combo or two, but I've never seen Supes dominate because of sheer speed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Proof that Supes would/could be on Surfer in less than a microsecond?

So ur saying SS would create the gold k-nite then have enough time to strike down Supes with it since im assuming supes will be taking a nap and not trying to fly towards him ot even dodge? The way I see it, the first opening battles will go to speeds because of this...when Norin wises up then he takes the majority.

To everyone and the mods, Quanchi112 getting reprimanded for reposting a scan that I introduced into this thread is utter bullcrap. Anybody that introduced and repeated Black Panther armbarring Silver Surfer wasn't warned or even addressed at all. And yet, here I am, posting a scan where Superman's speed is clearly not up to par and Quanchi112 gets warned? Bullcrap.

I can totally understand that he grabs for low feats whenever he sees it, which is why I actually was hesitant to post those scans in the first place. I can already intuit that he would immediately leap for such low feats. But calling him out on it when others aren't called out for continually posting about Silver Surfer's low feats is utter nonsense. If I didn't have more experience with the mods here, I would scream bias. But I know you guys better than that. You guys aren't biased. But you may have overlooked the fact that Quanchi and I both were merely responding in kind. If anybody is going to be reprimanded, it's me for posting it in the first place.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm in no way supporting Quan's use of a low end feat against Supes, but it's not as if he's the only one doing it in this thread. The whole reason that scan got brought up was because of Supes's fans continuously bringing up the BP armbar as proof that Surfer has no levels of super speed in combat despite repeatedly posted scans showing his blocking energy blast after they're fired, tracking/responding to an opponent in mid teleportation, fighting at highspeeds against Deathurge and Nova, and using super speed against the Hulk while OFF his board as well as numerous scans demonstrating his high levels of mental processing speed.

I'm not defending quan's argument but he's not the only one that should be reprimanded if that is what's called for in this particular situation.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Heavens. Would that Humanity were so perfect and self disciplined. Then there wouldn't be words like aggrevated, inciteful, pushed, irked, irritated, bothersome, provoked, etc. These are all words that leave room for redemption and for review. Unprovoked actions usually garner much heftier penalties than provoked actions. If my child goes and slaps another kid for no reason. I'm going to be upset. Very. If my child goes and slaps another kid cuz they kept baiting him, I'm still going to be upset at my kid but, I'm going to be more lenient due to that child being provoked.

Originally posted by Masao Shizukesa
Free speech is only protected from the government restricting you.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Its not about being restricted, using PIS as a means to demean Supes and trying to pass of his average is downright trolling. U have ignored high showing of chars u dont like and overplayed the high showings of chars u favor. Dont come back here again if this is wat u think debating is about.

Originally posted by Badabing
For anyone who has a problem with what I said to Quan.....

He has continually posted low feats which go against the majority of showings just to support his case. That's against the rules. Pointing out another person's behavior to justify something doesn't work with me. I handle each report on an individual basis based on past problems. I would say the same thing to people who continually posted low end Thanos feats. The Boneclaw incident comes to mind. Or the SS/BP armbar feat. The fact that I've personally talked with him about this numerous times and his report, warning and ban record support my post. Any more questions or discussion should be taken off the threads and to a PM...

This isn't up for debate or discussion on a thread. Quan's history on KMC is what got him in trouble several times and is why I said something to him. I'm not here to be popular but maintain some consistency and order on the forum.

Oops. Superman knew that people would be killed in the Middle East. But guess what? He's too late. Not quite as embarassing as not being able to save some people within the same town since he has to travel halfway across the world... but still, I'm sure those innocent people would have liked living... shame that:

Oops. Guess Plasmus must have light-speed reflexes eh? Even Superman couldn't get out of his way:

Oops. Wow... this Atlas dude must have FTL combat speed to nail Superman a good one. Especially since later on Superman himself admits that round one was Atlas'. So much for Superman's combat speed:

As I said in my original post. I personally don't approve of lowballing characters while ignoring their high feats and/or average feats. But hey... if you want to engage in that contest, trust me... I didn't take my position that Silver Surfer could handle Superman's speed without considering both characters' high, average and low feats together. My two cents. Anybody is free to call me out on pointing out low feats as long as they recognize that I won't give deference to other people throwing out low feats on the other side.

Originally posted by Ambient
Yes thats what i've said but Mags knew it before the opponent arrives thats the diff.. Surfer did not therefore his time in which to react are far shorter than that of Mags feat..

Really to what other showing has Magneto ever done that is equalled/similar reflex speed to this one? Less his got more then i'd agree, he'd be able to keep up w/ Supes but unlike Surfer his got a few more quantifiable reaction/reflex feats to warrant such proposition..

Magneto knew where the opponent arrived by sensing the disruptions along the magnetic lines of force, thus sensing where he would arrive after Nightcrawler teleported, while Surfer saw and calculated his trajectory, both of them doing essentially the same thing, only through different methods. They both reacted after the opponent teleported. They both, through different means, knew where the opponent would arrive. They both attacked the opponent once he got there. What can be argued is that, due to the different methods used by each one of them, Silver Surfer might have done more than Magneto did between the opponent teleporting from where he was to the point he wanted to go, which I can agree with, but the difference is so small that the feats still remain similar.

And you misunderstood me, I'm not trying to show that Magneto has reaction time on par with Surfer, or that he is able to keep up with Supes, it's to show that using that feat to prove that Surfer is on par with Supes when it comes to speed is meaningless.

Anyway, we're running in circles, and I think you see my point.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I wasn't questioning or even really discussing quan's reprimand, the point of my post was to address the Surfer/armbar so you'd stop bring it up as if it's valid evidence. quans actions were ruled to be beyond discussion, not yours.

I've addressed that enough. Now if you want to believe it was done with malicious intent (it wasn't) unlike others who did post with the sole intention of spite then that is fine.

I had a VERY LONG post with MULTIPLE scans that summed up a lot. Basically, it showed that Supes can do practically anything using Superspeed and it is in character. Outside of Surfers traveling, his speed is fairly negligible in battle in comparison to Supes whether in or out of character. Now the scan with SS catching DD and Spidey (even though they did jump right at him) is not a bad one, but still pales to Superman's higher battle showings.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But you're probably still right in saying that it's not really up for discussion anymore given Bada's addressing of the feat in question.

Thanks. Not that I broke any rules nor was I posting my debate with malicious intent at the time. Nor did I catch any attitude with people trying to lowball, since with Supes it's fairly easy to find scans to overturn just about any low showing.

Even as I said long ago, if kept in character, they will fly at each other with SS blasting and Supes punching... and that scenario favors Superman greatly.

Once semantics start coming out, then it becomes a long drawn out game of ti- for-tat. T-Vo can negate Surfers arsenal but of course since it seems out of character for Supes, people don't really like to debate it much.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But why when we're FINALLY making some progress? Now we won't have to waste our time arguing over a the BP armbar and we can move on and figure out who has the best chances for victory.

It's a circular debate in which after a few days gets pretty boring. I don't know about you, but I find it best to debate when I'm having a good time and have a huge interest in the topic. Since this comes up every couple of months anyway, I'm sure we'll be doing this dance again soon enough.

Originally posted by Avlon
Now the scan with SS catching DD and Spidey (even though they did jump right at him) is not a bad one, but still pales to Superman's higher battle showings.

😏

Okay, I'm going to stop now. 😛

Originally posted by Avlon
Even as I said long ago, if kept in character, they will fly at each other with SS blasting and Supes punching... and that scenario favors Superman greatly.

The question becomes: who is out-right more powerful? Does the Surfer force Superman back (or at least hold him at bay), or does Superman advance, and if so, how quickly? This is probably the one scenario where I'd have to go with a stalemate. But even if I were to say Superman advances, it would be slowly and painfully.

From either case, I'd follow up with something like this: Superman realizes this is not his best attack strategy and superspeeds out of the line of fire. Simultaneously, the Surfer realizes here's an opponent who's going to require more than brute force and nanospeed analyzes what attack might work best.

I won't go past this point as I believe most follow-up scenarios have been discussed, generally with the Surfer exploiting Superman's weaknesses or using some other exotic power, while Superman seeks to close the distance for h2h. All this then brings us back to the speed factor, at which point I'd like to reiterate a point I think darth mentioned: the Surfer doesn't have to necessarily have comparable h2h speed (which would appear to favor Supes). He need only be fast enough to respond, even defensively, like setting up a forcefield, and Surfer has been shown to be fast enough to do that even against energy beams already in transit (this is also ignoring for the moment the Surfer's "natural" durability, and whether Superman could one-shot him).

This is a tough battle for me, because it's pitting my favorite against my second favorite.

"What PIS? I posted that scan. How is that PIS? How is using BPvSS not PIS and using the scan I posted PIS? Fact is, some people don't want to recognize the overall truth: "Superman has NO nanosecond combat speed feats and Silver Surfer does." Don't front with your supposed superiority over others and expect me to look past your double standards.
Fine. As he said. This ain't up to discussion or debate. Mods have discretion. I still call utter bullcrap. You want to maintain consistency and order, I don't see how you could ignore other poster's constantly harping about Silver Surfer getting ambushed by Black Panther and not respond to them in kind either. I may not have reported them and I'm pretty sure other posters like Quanchi112 haven't reported them either, because it's totally expected in a controversial debate. But just because they get a kick out of using the report button and we don't, is no reason to deal with us differently. Nobody here ever told debators to shut the hell up about Surfer's low feats. Once I got told to not do that, I turned right around and started engaging in a lowball game. After all, it's easily countered as semantic nonsense. But as far as I see, people have only been told to shut the hell up about Superman's low feats. That's not cool and that's not evenhanded. So until I'm warned or told to shut up about Superman's low feats, here are a few others..."

Alright....even though the mod's have warned peeps about these off topic post I'll indulge you just for the sole purpose of finally putting this "quan"biz to rest. Quan was a outright Thanos fanboy troll, he got banned because he has had a history of low balling characters he doesnt like and overlooking any of there high feats that contradict the low feats he tried to pass off as there average. Do u know he actually believes SMP couldnt take out SS as handily or fast as Thanos...that he actually said a fight between the 2 was somehow debatable that might favor SS. If he isnt showing his personal bias there then I dont know what else....he thinks Thanos can take out PC Supes,Odin,SMP,Monarch,H/P Doomsday,PC DS...hell I bet he think Thanos only loses to a well feed Galactus 6/5...hes the one whos bias guy so stop ur nut hugging.

As far as ur whole"SS has nano second reflex"...u gotta be ****ing kidding me. Now somehow SS has combat speed and skills that will somehow make him win a fight over Supes in close quarters....I suppose ur going to try to claim he will physically dominate him to while ur at it right. Oh and another thing, the difference between the low balling u and quan were doing is that Supes has dozens of feats to contradict those ones while the SS didint. Technically, the only thing wrong with the BP incident was that BP doesnt have the strength to actually withhold SS...plus i dont even think SS has bones. As far as it actually being done to him...well since Norin does have a incredible lack of close quarter feats I dont see it being PIS. Norin is shown to be moving fast when traveling and navigating wit impressive reflex but how many situations without his board or in close quarters has he even moved fast or reacted well..is he even spidey level in terms of speed and reflex.