Originally posted by fangirl101
Seeing as how he says Ultraman is his direct opposite and Ultraman does it, I can see no reason why Superman cannot lift it. Except ultraman did it carelessly.
Also while I'm thinking about it, the book is already floating when Supes and Marvel walk up to it and put there hands underneath it. Are you sure they actually ever lift the thing in that story?
Originally posted by Starscream M
it's still strength because Superman lifts things with his arms....otherwise his arms would buckle under pressure if he were not strong enoughso perhaps, when he flies, he gains a type of 'extra' strength he doesn't have when not flying, but that only means he has an extra gear to tap into that Surfer does not
since Superman fights usually while flying, we can safely assume he has this 'extra' strength in a fight against Surfer
I'm not saying that Supes's physical strength doesn't factor into it(if Supes doesn't know how it works, I'm damn sure not going to try to guess), just that Supes's own words confirm that lifting feats while flying aren't feats of pure physical strength.
Originally posted by darthgooberyou're parsing words and playing semantics
If that were true his body would have buckled when he was dragging that ship because his physical strength had been nullified. No matter how you spin it, Supes specifically says that there's something other than strength at work when he lifts something while flying. And the fact that he referred to it as "something other" means that even HE doesn't understand it, so it doesn't really matter if it doesn't "make sense". We can go back and forth on possible explanations and exceptions all day but in the end they'd all be nothing but speculation without confirmed on panel proof like I already provided.I'm not saying that Supes's physical strength doesn't factor into it(if Supes doesn't know how it works, I'm damn sure not going to try to guess), just that Supes's own words confirm that lifting feats while flying aren't feats of pure physical strength.
it really doesn't matter how it works
let's say Superman's regular strength is X
now, when he is in flight...some other mysterious factor increases his strength...whatever you want to call it...so that Superman's strength in flight is X + Y
in a fight against Surfer, we have to use X + Y as Superman's strength rather than X because Superman will be flying during the battle
Originally posted by darthgoober
Alternate universe version, and feats from alternate universe versions don't carry over.Also while I'm thinking about it, the book is already floating when Supes and Marvel walk up to it and put there hands underneath it. Are you sure they actually ever lift the thing in that story?
Originally posted by Starscream M
you're parsing words and playing semanticsit really doesn't matter how it works
let's say Superman's regular strength is X
now, when he is in flight...some other mysterious factor increases his strength...whatever you want to call it...so that Superman's strength in flight is X + Y
in a fight against Surfer, we have to use X + Y as Superman's strength rather than X because Superman will be flying during the battle
Originally posted by Juntai
I'll give you that Byrne deal, as often Supermans powers are attributed to telekinetic powers [farther proven by Connor, who often did his lifting primarily with telekinesis, but the lines blurred and dileneated once he gained full Kryptonian powerset on which he was using.], however often enough, his lifting even while flying, is often attributed to strength alone as well. Most writers don't try to enter the territory of the Superman beyond his basic powerset, while others do. When Byrne wrote that, he was recreating Superman's origin and powerset, both of which should be taken with a grain of salt for better or worse, since the Man of Steel origin is no longer correct. Besides, I don't think there's anything he can't lift on the ground, that he can lift in the air. This is a guy who with a clenched hand can keep a black hole from expanding, or turn the endless wheels of maggedon, a younger Superman lifted the entirety of Metropolis from the ocean floor [lots of water displacement- think about it].
And unless there's a statement somewhere that says Supes punches harder when he's flying(and to my knowledge, it's not) then it's unfounded speculation to say that whatever force it is will be added to his punching power.
Besides, I never said that whatever "force" aids Superman's lifting while flying WON'T come into play during a fight(though I'm of the opinion that it won't be added to punches), my point this entire time has just been that his lifting feats while flying can't be directly attributed to strength. I wasn't talking about Supes/Surfer, I was talking about how they can't be used as proof that he's physically stronger than characters like Thor or the Hulk. Basically they're not valid evidence of his being able to beat characters in something like an arm wrestling match or split a planet with a punch.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Unless it's similar to telekinesis, and according to Juntai it often is...And unless there's a statement somewhere that says Supes punches harder when he's flying(and to my knowledge, it's not) then it's unfounded speculation to say that whatever force it is will be added to his punching power.
Besides, I never said that whatever "force" aids Superman's lifting while flying WON'T come into play during a fight(though I'm of the opinion that it won't be added to punches), my point this entire time has just been that his lifting feats while flying can't be directly attributed to strength. I wasn't talking about Supes/Surfer, I was talking about how they can't be used as proof that he's physically stronger than characters like Thor or the Hulk. Basically they're not valid evidence of his being able to beat characters in something like an arm wrestling match or split a planet with a punch.
Originally posted by fangirl101
You highlighted the part you wanted to show. But Juntai also says that byrnes origin had been retconned out. Hence superman's powers go back to thier normal days. Flight has nothing to do with adding to superman's strength.
Anyway...
😖mart:
This whole line of thought is really irrelevant. We know how physically strong the Hulk is. He's got numerous strength feats. Supporting 150 billion tons on his shoulders, shifting tectonic plates, shattering an asteroid twice the size of Earth with a single punch, thunderclapping away dimensions, punching through a time-storm, and breaking the supposedly unbreakable Crimson bands of Cytorrak. He was stated as having the physical strength to rival a Celestial and the Beyonder noted that his strength potential possessed "no finite element inside."
All that...and a weakened Silver Surfer cut off from the Power Cosmic and unable to amp his strength physically overpowered him in a grappling contest and threw him backwards 30 or so feet into a wall.
Surfer isn't going to be overpowered by Superman's raw strength. So say so is to be ridiculous.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes Byrnes ORIGIN has been rectoned out, but that scan isn't from Supes's origin. That's why Juntai said "I'll give you that Byrne deal, as often Supermans powers are attributed to telekinetic powers". He wasn't saying that the scans were rectoned out, he was admitting that they were valid and supported by other instances of Supes's powers being attributed to telekinesis.Anyway...
😖mart:
It's not like Superman doesn't have strength feats going into the billions of tons category.
Having said that, Surfer owns Superman. Not only is he faster, he can do a number of things including:
draining the solar energy out of him thus rendering him powerless, area of effect energy blast, he could even turn Supes into a jelly donut if he was so inclined to do so.
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not like Superman doesn't have strength feats going into the billions of tons category.
Yeah, personally I was never arguing that Supes wasn't incredibly strong. Just that his vast strength wouldn't be an issue like some thing. I think there was a comment in here about, "Supes blitzes him FTL and punches his head off FTW!"
*shakes his head*
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not like Superman doesn't have strength feats going into the billions of tons category.Having said that, Surfer owns Superman. Not only is he faster, he can do a number of things including:
draining the solar energy out of him thus rendering him powerless, area of effect energy blast, he could even turn Supes into a jelly donut if he was so inclined to do so.
Originally posted by Enyalus
This whole line of thought is really irrelevant. We know how physically strong the Hulk is. He's got numerous strength feats. Supporting 150 billion tons on his shoulders, shifting tectonic plates, shattering an asteroid twice the size of Earth with a single punch, thunderclapping away dimensions, punching through a time-storm, and breaking the supposedly unbreakable Crimson bands of Cytorrak. He was stated as having the physical strength to rival a Celestial and the Beyonder noted that his strength potential possessed "no finite element inside."All that...and a weakened Silver Surfer cut off from the Power Cosmic and unable to amp his strength physically overpowered him in a grappling contest and threw him backwards 30 or so feet into a wall.
Surfer isn't going to be overpowered by Superman's raw strength. So say so is to be ridiculous.
Wow...so many of those feats you listed for Hulk have a lot of context behind them. Besides that point, are you suggesting Supes will want to "grapple him"...cause I was thinking he would just blitz the hell outta him.