Originally posted by darthgooberSuperman wasn't as fast back then, and Deathstroke is really fast. You gotta remember that right after the reboot, even Flash had difficulties with sound speeds. Even Wally has had trouble keeping up with Deathstroke in urban environment.
How is it not comparable to be unable to catch(or even keep sight of) someone a billion times slower than you are?
And he wasn't unable to catch him, he caught him.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Origin was wiped form contiunity. superman was depowered specifically. So anything relating to his powers would also be out of the window.
No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it
Originally posted by darthgoober
Who the Hell lied to you and told you that you decide what's valid and invalid when it comes to rectons? If you're claiming that the naure of his powers were altered due to the recton then...No Bias Claims
If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it [/B]
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
[b]Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources.
Originally posted by Juntai
Superman wasn't as fast back then, and Deathstroke is really fast. You gotta remember that right after the reboot, even Flash had difficulties with sound speeds. Even Wally has had trouble keeping up with Deathstroke in urban environment.And he wasn't unable to catch him, he caught him.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Who in the hell told you that it was ok to use the way superman's powers work from an era when he couldn't even hit light speed, nor could he lift a continent, nor could he breathe in space. Get it together dear. If you are saying his powers still work that way, that means he still needs to breathe in space, can not fly at faster than light speeds, and has trouble lifting a air craft carrier.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Fail. He learned to breath on panel. His powers increased to the point that he started surpassing lightspeed and lifting thing larger than a air carrier on panel. Thus, the lower showings from back in the day have been explained away by proof from a canon source. Your claims in regards to the nature of Superman's powers HAVEN'T been explained away by proof from a canon source.
You are all off. He was breathing in space when he was with the legion as a kid. you have failed. The powers part of byre's run and origin is thus invalid. And dont' tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because I have the ENTIRE PC legion run. And I have the current legions 3 worlds which shows that it is canon.
Originally posted by Enyalus
You realize all of this that they're bringing up is a red herring? Irrelevant misdirection, designed at shifting the spotlight away from how easily Surfer wins against Superman, every time.
Originally posted by darthgooberDeathstroke didn't throw Superman into a heel hook and tell him he was going to rip his leg off though. He jumped from a roof bounced across a bus and through a window and evaded a short time as Superman followed, then caught him. I see what you're getting at, and I'm not suggesting the Black Panther ordeal is kosher [in fact I havent even mentioned it] but this instance isn't really comparable.
The difference in power doesn't make it any less PIS to a street level hero. My point was that Supes has just as many instances of falling victim to it as Surfer, and that point still stands.
Originally posted by Juntai
Deathstroke didn't throw Superman into a heel hook and tell him he was going to rip his leg off though. He jumped from a roof bounced across a bus and through a window and evaded a short time as Superman followed, then caught him. I see what you're getting at, and I'm not suggesting the Black Panther ordeal is kosher [in fact I havent even mentioned it] but this instance isn't really comparable.
Originally posted by fangirl101
You are all off. He was breathing in space when he was with the legion as a kid. you have failed. The powers part of byre's run and origin is thus invalid. And dont' tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because I have the ENTIRE PC legion run. And I have the current legions 3 worlds which shows that it is canon.
Originally posted by Juntai
I'll give you that Byrne deal, as often Supermans powers are attributed to telekinetic powers [farther proven by Connor, who often did his lifting primarily with telekinesis, but the lines blurred and dileneated once he gained full Kryptonian powerset on which he was using.], however often enough, his lifting even while flying, is often attributed to strength alone as well. Most writers don't try to enter the territory of the Superman beyond his basic powerset, while others do. When Byrne wrote that, he was recreating Superman's origin and powerset, both of which should be taken with a grain of salt for better or worse, since the Man of Steel origin is no longer correct. Besides, I don't think there's anything he can't lift on the ground, that he can lift in the air. This is a guy who with a clenched hand can keep a black hole from expanding, or turn the endless wheels of maggedon, a younger Superman lifted the entirety of Metropolis from the ocean floor [lots of water displacement- think about it].
Originally posted by darthgooberno, I agreed that the armbar was in some ways PIS, but the fact that a friggin writer and editor even thought it was passable enough to put into an actual comic tells you something about Surfer
No I was referring to Bruce and n...Fangirl. Your addressing which is the worse showing, but that was never my point. They're trying to act as if one showing is more valid than the other.
you brought up the DS event, which is exponentially better than the armbar event and is in no way comparable
Originally posted by darthgoober
Was it stated that he lifted things through strength alone while flying in his days in the Legion? Then there's no contradicting evidence now is there? And you seem to be forgetting something...I know of one, Juntai knows of others, and you know... well, nothing evidently.
You still lose. Becuz byren retconned Superman's origin and his powes. By reversing byrne's origin it changed superman's powers back to the original explaination. hence superman learning to breathe in space is a retcon. He never had to. As such, his strength was never connect to his flight. Or do I need to show a scan of Superboy pulling open inertron. NOT flying.
Originally posted by darthgoober
No I was referring to Bruce and n...Fangirl. Your addressing which is the worse showing, but that was never my point. They're trying to act as if one showing is more valid than the other.
Originally posted by Starscream M
no, I agreed that the armbar was in some ways PIS, but the fact that a friggin writer and editor even thought it was passable enough to put into an actual comic tells you something about Surferyou brought up the DS event, which is exponentially better than the armbar event and is in no way comparable