Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by Desaad
How would he know to do this?

Superman has drained the energy out of Rampage. Could he do the same to Surfer, who has likewise been drained of energy by Captain Reptyl's machines, Dampyre, Doctor Doom, Dr. Doom's Doombots, Dynamo City, The Mergence and others?

Surfer's physical and energy durability is superior to Superman's? That's a bit of a broad generalization, isn't it?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=FM_1981_014_04.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=FM_1981_014_05.jpg

Not when things like that are fairly commonplace in his history, no.

Not to say that Superman is necessarily MORE durable, and certainly Supes' skin tends to be easier to puncture, but...well, yeah. You get the idea.

Surfer's got great senses, but greater than Superman's? No. Silver Surfer SAYS he can hear something across galaxies, but Superman actually HAS (a whisper, from Kyle). They can both see across all spectrums, see souls, all that stuff. Pretty even, I'd say.

No. Surfer has no genuine displays of combat speed. Superman has many.

I agree that Surfer wins (6/10, for my money) but this across the board cockstroke of Surfer is not bakced up by facts, I think.

Awesome work, I even said I believe SS would get 6/10 myself. I do believe Supes durability might be better since he did take a galaxy wrecker, plus ive never seen him physically as dominated as SS has been by Thanos.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Wasn't the entire blackhole argument alreayd debunked, besides thats a rather huge leap in assuming SS blast will equal a red sun...in fact its entirly basless.

No, it wasn't. There's nothing to debunk. He POWERED UP, not even firing a blast, and created a black hole. And a black hole's power > sun. There's nothing baseless about it.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Awesome work, I even said I believe SS would get 6/10 myself. I do believe Supes durability might be better since he did take a galaxy wrecker, plus ive never seen him physically as dominated as SS has been by Thanos.

Doomsday, Hank Henshaw, Oblivion One shotted Him, and other instances that escape me right now.

Originally posted by Desaad
How would he know to do this?

Cosmic Awareness. Or the basic knowledge clause in vs. threads. Pretty common knowledge that Kryptonians don't like red sunlight.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, it wasn't. There's nothing to debunk. He POWERED UP, not even firing a blast, and created a black hole. And a black hole's power > sun. There's nothing baseless about it.

Supes HV blast can't be caculated by DC earth experts, yet we can caculate the hottest temperature in our solar system at a incredible 400 million K which would technically mean a full power HV blast would be several times more potent then a sun. At any AV already debunked the blackhole thing..and to suggest SS coudl make a red sun blast equal to a sun is just foolish.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The Great Galen... "When did Superman take a galaxy busting blast?"

Not to speak for someone else, but off the top of my head all I can think of is him 'disarming' the Mageddon warhead by absorbing it's Anti-Sunlight energy, the force of which being released would destroy 'half a galaxy' or something like that.

Thanos has tagged speedsters before.

Mmm, I don't think he has. Not without some sort of outside aid (Gauntlet, Gem, whatever). Even Gamora - from from a speedster - casually avoided his blasts and hits.

Supes has been tagged by bricks like the General.

For the record, I think it's ridiculous to say that Superman WOULDN'T get hit because he's got super speed. The guy very rarely uses it.

That said, he at least DOES use it, which can't be said of the silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Cosmic Awareness. Or the basic knowledge clause in vs. threads. Pretty common knowledge that Kryptonians don't like red sunlight.

I don't think we've ever seen him divine such a thing mid-battle via cosmic awareness when there is no outward sign of it.

And I don't think weaknesses are generally given at the beginning of a fight like that.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman has been physically Dominated.

Doomsday, Hank Henshaw, Oblivion One shotted Him, and other instances that escape me right now.

Considering the company of characters I dont think its that bad, Thanos doesnt strike me as being in these characters leauge physically.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Awesome work, I even said I believe SS would get 6/10 myself. I do believe Supes durability might be better since he did take a galaxy wrecker, plus ive never seen him physically as dominated as SS has been by Thanos.

Really?

Despero did it in Virtue and Vice. Synnar did it. Brainiac was absolutely physically dominating in the most recent arc. The General had little problem dominating him PLUS Orion, or plus Martian Manhunter. Hunter/Prey Doomsday absolutely slaughtered him, even with Motherbox additions. Heck, Darkseid had him stunned in three blows during OWAW. (Since you said physically, I'm assuming you mean pure strength here...if you want to extend the criteria, I could immediately name more).

Originally posted by Enyalus
Cosmic Awareness. Or the basic knowledge clause in vs. threads. Pretty common knowledge that Kryptonians don't like red sunlight.

Originally posted by Desaad
Not to speak for someone else, but off the top of my head all I can think of is him 'disarming' the Mageddon warhead by absorbing it's Anti-Sunlight energy, the force of which being released would destroy 'half a galaxy' or something like that.

Mmm, I don't think he has. Not without some sort of outside aid (Gauntlet, Gem, whatever). Even Gamora - from from a speedster - casually avoided his blasts and hits.

For the record, I think it's ridiculous to say that Superman WOULDN'T get hit because he's got super speed. The guy very rarely uses it.

That said, he at least DOES use it, which can't be said of the silver Surfer.

Wouldnt the forum full capcity rules stipulate that Supes will be using his most effective combat speed as he has displayed in the past? Oh and yes I was referring to the warhead feat thank you.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes HV blast can't be caculated by DC earth experts, yet we can caculate the hottest temperature in our solar system at a incredible 400 million K which would technically mean a full power HV blast would be several times more potent then a sun. At any AV already debunked the blackhole thing..and to suggest SS coudl make a red sun blast equal to a sun is just foolish.

400 million K? Get that crap out of here. The surface of the Sun is 5,780 K. Fact. Read Annihilation and you will see that, in fact, the Silver Surfer got pissed off, powered up (as opposed to holding back as he usually does), ended up destroying the planet AND causing a black hole, as confirmed by Thanos. The scans are in this thread and in Surfer's respect thread. The power to create a black hole >> the power output of a sun. The Human Torch's Nova Flame is 1,000,000 degrees, comparable to the sun. You're telling me The Silver Surfer, someone who makes Torch's power look like a joke, cannot?

You're being foolish, not me.

Originally posted by Desaad
I don't think we've ever seen him divine such a thing mid-battle via cosmic awareness when there is no outward sign of it.

And I don't think weaknesses are generally given at the beginning of a fight like that.

He does it in mid-battle, while taking and throwing punches, in his battle against the Uni-Lord. Scans are in this thread and in Surfer's respect thread. In fact, they're just a few pages back.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, it wasn't. There's nothing to debunk. He POWERED UP, not even firing a blast, and created a black hole. And a black hole's power > sun. There's nothing baseless about it.

Well...not exactly.

Okay, he did create a Black Hole, but that's hardly a big deal in comics these days - Green Lanterns have sealed bigger black holes, equal sized black holes, they survive them pretty easily.

Superman has multiple times survived a black hole, sealed something very akin to a black hole, and even held one in his hands (though the nature of containment there remains a point of contention).

That said, we've seen that even a little (in the grand scheme of things) energy from the sun drove him to the bursting -- was more power than he could reasonably handle, driving him insane and deforming his body badly (this, by the way, was supposedly the only way that he might destroy a mere moon).

So it varies.

Originally posted by Desaad
Really?

Despero did it in Virtue and Vice. Synnar did it. Brainiac was absolutely physically dominating in the most recent arc. The General had little problem dominating him PLUS Orion, or plus Martian Manhunter. Hunter/Prey Doomsday absolutely slaughtered him, even with Motherbox additions. Heck, Darkseid had him stunned in three blows during OWAW. (Since you said physically, I'm assuming you mean pure strength here...if you want to extend the criteria, I could immediately name more).

Plus Konvikt one-shotting him. 😉 And he's Purple! Like Thanos!

Originally posted by fangirl101
[B]Actually it's not common knowlege. Especially to enemy combatants. Only Superman's repetitive enemies know that.

It's fairly cosmic knowledge in galactic circles, actually. The space pirate in the Leonardi/Busiek Superman arc knew to use red sun energy.

Originally posted by Desaad
That said, we've seen that even a little (in the grand scheme of things) energy from the sun drove him to the bursting -- was more power than he could reasonably handle, driving him insane and deforming his body badly (this, by the way, was supposedly the only way that he might destroy a mere moon).

So it varies.

That was 2-3 upgrades ago and is sort of irrelevant now. Almost like using Supes feats from the Byrnes era.

Originally posted by Enyalus
400 million K? Get that crap out of here. The surface of the Sun is 5,780 K. Fact. Read Annihilation and you will see that, in fact, the Silver Surfer got pissed off, powered up (as opposed to holding back as he usually does), ended up destroying the planet AND causing a black hole, as confirmed by Thanos. The scans are in this thread and in Surfer's respect thread. The power to create a black hole >> the power output of a sun. The Human Torch's Nova Flame is 1,000,000 degrees, comparable to the sun. You're telling me The Silver Surfer, someone who makes Torch's power look like a joke, cannot?

You're being foolish, not me.

He does it in mid-battle, while taking and throwing punches, in his battle against the Uni-Lord. Scans are in this thread and in Surfer's respect thread. In fact, they're just a few pages back.

And Black Holes are not all the same. Some black holes are less powerful than a sun. And Black Hole's come from a chain reaction of events. It's not an amount of energy type event.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Wouldnt the forum full capcity rules stipulate that Supes will be using his most effective combat speed as he has displayed in the past? Oh and yes I was referring to the warhead feat thank you.

I don't go by those, I go by what's in character, what he generally shows himself to do in battles.

Same with the Surfer, mind you. It's easier to figure out that way.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That was 2-3 upgrades ago and is sort of irrelevant now. Almost like using Supes feats from the Byrnes era.

2-3 upgrades?

The only upgrade he's gotten is becoming herald to Galactus again, which increased his power level.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes HV blast can't be caculated by DC earth experts, yet we can caculate the hottest temperature in our solar system at a incredible 400 million K which would technically mean a full power HV blast would be several times more potent then a sun. At any AV already debunked the blackhole thing..and to suggest SS coudl make a red sun blast equal to a sun is just foolish.

Originally posted by Desaad
Not to speak for someone else, but off the top of my head all I can think of is him 'disarming' the Mageddon warhead by absorbing it's Anti-Sunlight energy, the force of which being released would destroy 'half a galaxy' or something like that.

Originally posted by Desaad
Mmm, I don't think he has. Not without some sort of outside aid (Gauntlet, Gem, whatever). Even Gamora - from from a speedster - casually avoided his blasts and hits.

Originally posted by Desaad
For the record, I think it's ridiculous to say that Superman WOULDN'T get hit because he's got super speed. The guy very rarely uses it.

That said, he at least DOES use it, which can't be said of the silver Surfer.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Actually it's not common knowlege. Especially to enemy combatants. Only Superman's repetitive enemies know that. And Cosmic Awareness all of a sudden makes the surfer Cleo the Psychich? Ug. How come he didn't know to use the crunch when fighting and had to think about it?