Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Same way he knew how to shift Wonderman's ionic phase. Cosmic Awareness and nearly unparalleled energy manipulation.

But it's not the same at all, of course.

I'm going to take this as a no response.

No. He couldn't.

This one too.

Depowered Earth-bound Surfer? I see. Let me grab some Bryne-era Superman scans where he gets knocked out by gas station explosions.

Depowered by how much by being specifically on earth vs one small reference that's been blown out of proportion and taken out of context?

And yeah, being knocked out by an exploding gas station is EXACTLY the same as being knocked out by a straight meteor.

Hah!

I got the idea that you can't even use a current incarnation of a character despite the common rules of vs threads.

If it bothers you that much, feel free to take this example - post freedom - in which the same happens.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=ss_enslavers_07.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=ss_enslavers_08.jpg

No. I will prove that Surfer has superior senses. Come up with Superman's best in scans, I, or Darthgoober, will come up with Surfer's best.

Great. I'll await your scans.

After all, YOU'RE the one making the outlandish claim; the burden of proof rests on you.

Surfer has genuine displays of combat speed measured directly against such things as light and measured in nanoseconds and microseconds.

Against a single opponent? I'm WAITING.

Surfer 7/10. Difference of one. And you basically are diametrically opposed to everything I say. So either my opinion of Surfer's characteristics are off, but my overall assessment of his chances against Superman is nearly on point, or my opinion of his characteristics is on and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing because you still agree with the overall result. Nice.

I don't see how you can extoll the many ways in which the Surfer is across the board superior to Superman - he's more durable, his energy blasts are vastly more powerful, he's got more impressive cosmic senses, he's somehow likely to exploit Superman's greatest weaknesses - not actually mention a SINGLE quality that Superman has over the Surfer, and then come to the conclusion that, hey, Surfer wins 7/10.

One can only conclude that you realize that anything more than 7/10 would make you seem a bit ridiculous and that you're pandering.

Combat speed feats, none of which are dodging lasers or bullrushing ships:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Seriously. Is there a conception that Surfer has zero combat speed or reflexes? Seconds, milliseconds, microseconds, nanoseconds. Light moves only one foot within a single nanosecond. Surfer's got the near light-speed or FTL combat/reflex feats. Superman doesn't.

[b]1) Can Superman fly around at blinding speeds and take potshots at Surfer? Sure. Could Surfer deal with it? When he can actually track a guy using instantaneous teleportation doing the same thing, spin around physically and take them out with a cosmic blast, yeah... I'd say he could deal with it. Is Superman faster than instantaneous teleportation? Flash is, doubt Superman is:

2) And here I suppose you would use the Nascar analogy again, but Silver Surfer isn't just navigating, he's weaving through blasts, busts through three or four vibranium walls and grabs Nova before the thing explodes by a signal sent the exact moment the first wall is breached:

[/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ continued. How fast was he moving, reacting, blasting in those scans? I'd easily say FTL. But instead of relying on those, let's move on to some perfectly quantifiable and clear speed/reflex feats:

[b]3) Within a single second. Actually a tenth of a second, Surfer manages to pull Mantis and Shalla Bal away from inside a cosmic sphere detonation that he wasn't even aware was booby-trapped:

4) Within a single microsecond (millionth of a second). I don't think a Nascar driver can assess the particulars of what's going on around them in a second. They react through trained reflexes. They certainly dont use Cosmic Awareness to assess that a fugitive is trying to escape a dreadnought starship and then streak towards them to save her ALL in less than a microsecond:

5) Within a single microsecond (billionths of a second). Nascar drivers can react to cars that are roughly going the same speed as they are. They can also anticipate how they're going to behave. It's a very different situation when things are coming at you from all angles at similar speeds. Silver Surfer flying around, avoiding these light speed lasers coming at him from all sides, blasting through walls and tracking this light speed signal ALL in the space of nanoseconds is not analagous to Nascar driving:

6) Within a single nanosecond. Silver Surfer flexing his entire body within a nanosecond cannot be anything else other than a FTL combat reflex since he is stationary and not travelling:

Superman's got great combat speed. He doesn't have FTL combat speed, nowhere near it. Superman ought to be able to surprise Surfer with his combat speed, but Surfer's FTL combat reflexes are easily up to task. Finally, do Superman's combat reflexes help him avoid Kalibak, Batman, Plasmus, Darkseid or even Manchester Black? Nuff said. [/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
When you have to calculate the trajectory information of billions of billions of stars within a few seconds... I'd daresay that is pretty indicative of him being able to think in nanoseconds. After all, one second = one billion nanoseconds. A few seconds = a few billion nanoseconds. Here, he's got billions and billions of stars to look at and process within a few seconds:

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm going to assume you mean 400 million K even though you've posted "400 k" twice now. And I'll ask again - what in this solar system is 400 million K? And, the sun is a little over 13 million K, but hey, I'll let it slide...

Besides that, Surfer flies through suns on a regular basis and has survived supernovae with no problem.

Yeah it's 400 million K, the hottest temperature in our solar system. The core of the sun is a mere 15 million k...which unlike Supes HV is not incaculable. Now coupled with the speed in which Supes and project his HV, this enery is trully incredible. Although I dont doubt that SS can't handle such a blast...its gonna leave a mark won't you agree.

Originally posted by Desaad
Because he's only ever faced one Super Speester; The runner.

He's got a 0% success rate against foes with verfiable superspeed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As for super-speed thought:

Stil waiting for combat feats, Supes can move faster then a nanosecond sooo....

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually both Wonder Man and Nova have verifiable Super Speed, and Surfer throttled both of them.

What's there verifiable combat speed?

Originally posted by Desaad
But it's not the same at all, of course.

I'm going to take this as a no response.

This one too.

Depowered by how much by being specifically on earth vs one small reference that's been blown out of proportion and taken out of context?

And yeah, being knocked out by an exploding gas station is EXACTLY the same as being knocked out by a straight meteor.

Hah!

If it bothers you that much, feel free to take this example - post freedom - in which the same happens.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=ss_enslavers_07.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=ss_enslavers_08.jpg

Great. I'll await your scans.

After all, YOU'RE the one making the outlandish claim; the burden of proof rests on you.

Against a single opponent? I'm WAITING.

I don't see how you can extoll the many ways in which the Surfer is across the board superior to Superman - he's more durable, his energy blasts are vastly more powerful, he's got more impressive cosmic senses, he's somehow likely to exploit Superman's greatest weaknesses - not actually mention a SINGLE quality that Superman has over the Surfer, and then come to the conclusion that, hey, Surfer wins 7/10.

One can only conclude that you realize that anything more than 7/10 would make you seem a bit ridiculous and that you're pandering.

In the scan where u showed SS being knocked out, he was already in pain due to his seemingly growing madness before he was hit by multiple meteors not just one. Heck he was in a meteor shower.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As for super-speed thought:

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yeah it's 400 million K, the hottest temperature in our solar system.

PROVE IT

For the last time, what the hell is it you are referencing, because personally I know of nothing at all even near that temperature and am calling BS on that whole thing.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Now coupled with the speed in which Supes and project his HV, this enery is trully incredible. Although I dont doubt that SS can't handle such a blast...its gonna leave a mark won't you agree.

No, I don't agree. I've already told you, kinetic energy does not effing stack like that. The speed Supes shoots his HV does not matter! Photons travel at light speed to the earth every nanosecond. Are there a bunch of crators in the Earth because of it? Of course not. Konvikt took Supes' full powered HV to the face and let out a yelp, which was about it. SS has taken punches and blasts from two abstracts in Annihilation and wasn't dropped. Supes HV won't be a problem. Besides that, he can easily dodge it.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
What's there verifiable combat speed?

Oh and he also took on someone who had the powers of Gladiator w/Enigma Force.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes it is. And it has nothing to do with Superman tanking a galaxy busting blast.

Taking? I suppose that could be interpreted in any number of ways. His body was able to successfully ABSORB that amount of energy, then? Is that preferable to you?

Yes. She has.

We're not going to get very far if you keep making unfounded claims.

If you're playfully sparring, that means you're not fighting. You're playfully sparring.

Playful is very different for you and for people like Gamora and Thanos. There is no evidence that he wasn't trying to tag her; the interaction between Drax and Adam make that very clear. They were trying to get each other. They weren't trying to KILL each other.

Most hero vs hero fights, or villain vs hero fights for that matter, don't come with the intention of death.

And Gamora has destroyed a battalion that included tanks.

And stalemated by Logan. Go figure.

Yes he does. Lists have been made several times. Look in the Respect Thread.

I've seen them. They don't hold up as genuine combat superspeed.

If you want to take out specific examples and, you know, DEBATE them you are surely free to do so.

Superman's combat speed is nowhere near Runner's combat speed. So any extrapolation is pointless and reaching.

Your point seems to rest on the fact that the Runner - a high level super speedster, absolutely - is the only such speedster ever to defeat the Surfer.

That would be well and fine if we'd seen the Surfer face anyone with genuine combat super speed. Generally, though, it takes an atheletic human speed to dodge his punches and blasts, as Midnight Sun was able to do.

You brought up the reference and made a fallacious implication with it; I'm sure bringing that to light.

I never mentioned kryptonite. Don't analogize the two.

They're analogous.

Kryptonite is from another universe. Surfer would not know about it per the common knowledge rule. Lois has written articles about Superman's powers. STAR Labs has published articles on him. It's been argued by people other than me that Surfer would know that yellow sun radiation powers him and red sun radiation depowers him.

That's spectacular. I hope you and they are very happy together.

But that doesn't change the fact that you can't come up with any sort of reference that would back up the fact that Surfer WOULD know about the Red Sunlight weakness (again, mind you, no contention that he would know that Superman is powered by sun energy).

And regardless, Silver Surfer displayed an ability to know specifically tuned radiation would waylay Gladiator.

Oh? And how did he know about it?

(Hint: It was never said. It might be common knowledge, as Superman's Kryptonite knowledge tends to be in the DCU, and it was CERTAINLY never stated to be through his cosmic awareness or senses).

I can name you a dozen times Surfer has manipulated the energies of his foes. Good job trying to argue that sucking Rampage's energy once is comparable or tends to an argument that Superman could suck out the Power Cosmic from Surfer.
Already proven and you already concede that Superman's solar radiation can be sucked.

It's not a 'concession'. I'm not on one side of this debate and you on the other; I'm simply correcting you on a number of assumptions you made throughout.

Originally posted by Desaad
But it's not the same at all, of course.

I'm going to take this as a no response.

This one too.

Originally posted by Desaad
Depowered by how much by being specifically on earth vs one small reference that's been blown out of proportion and taken out of context?

And yeah, being knocked out by an exploding gas station is EXACTLY the same as being knocked out by a straight meteor.

Hah!

Originally posted by Desaad
If it bothers you that much, feel free to take this example - post freedom - in which the same happens.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=ss_enslavers_07.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Silver%20Surfer/?action=view&current=ss_enslavers_08.jpg

Originally posted by Desaad
Great. I'll await your scans.

After all, YOU'RE the one making the outlandish claim; the burden of proof rests on you.

Originally posted by Desaad
Against a single opponent? I'm WAITING.

I don't see how you can extoll the many ways in which the Surfer is across the board superior to Superman - he's more durable, his energy blasts are vastly more powerful, he's got more impressive cosmic senses, he's somehow likely to exploit Superman's greatest weaknesses - not actually mention a SINGLE quality that Superman has over the Surfer, and then come to the conclusion that, hey, Surfer wins 7/10.

One can only conclude that you realize that anything more than 7/10 would make you seem a bit ridiculous and that you're pandering.

Superman is resourceful. Superman has greater combat speed. Surfer does not go for cheap and easy wins every single time he fights. He doesn't blow open black holes at the start of a fight. He doesn't suck a foe's energy until he's dead at the start of a bell. He doesn't BFR without getting some measure of the foe first. Superman pulls 3/10 because of Surfer's CIS, his resourcefulness and T-vo. I'm not pandering to you. I'm educating you and pointing out your self-serving logic. I'm also using current versions of characters. I'm also not using low feats, except to point out your liberal use of them despite Badabing's constant warnings throughout the thread about doing that.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Ok I ahve a question. How is surfer flexing his body a combat speed feat? He's not moving. I can flex my body in a nano second. I just did it typing. Hell. LOL.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Show me where you stretch your arms and legs out in a nanosecond from the shackled position Surfer was in.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Show me where you stretch your arms and legs out in a nanosecond from the shackled position Surfer was in.

She's kinky like that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Good show.
Good to know you make yourself laugh as much as you make the rest of us do also, despite the fact you admit Superman loses the majority. Tell me. If current Surfer has such low durability he gets knocked out by meteors because a depowered Earthbound Surfer did, how does current Surfer really win against current Superman for the majority? Answer the question. Don't dodge.
Him going mad and plunging to Earth proves what exactly?
I challenged you to provide proof. You want to sit on your hands, by all means.
Done.

Superman is resourceful. Superman has greater combat speed. Surfer does not go for cheap and easy wins every single time he fights. He doesn't blow open black holes at the start of a fight. He doesn't suck a foe's energy until he's dead at the start of a bell. He doesn't BFR without getting some measure of the foe first. Superman pulls 3/10 because of Surfer's CIS, his resourcefulness and T-vo. I'm not pandering to you. I'm educating you and pointing out your self-serving logic. I'm also using current versions of characters. I'm also not using low feats, except to point out your liberal use of them despite Badabing's constant warnings throughout the thread about doing that.

No you're wrong, SS will just suck his energy and do like 10 other things he never does in battle but will suddenly be able to pull out of his ass. Hey, remember the time SS beat T&A and pwned Odin at the sametime 🙂

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Doesnt superman absorb sunlight? how in the world do u think that he will then be able to absorb surfer PC? U must be kidding me.

I don't, really. Superman has absorbed a few different types of energies over the years, but I don't seriously believe he would ever do so to the Surfer. Just that, if you want to be technical, the precedent for such a move exists.

I also tend to think that any energy absorption from the Surfer would be unlikely, and that there is a decent chance of Superman resisting it (as he has on a couple of occasions).

And no the surfer depowered on earth is NOT vastly overplayed. For one while he was depowered, he had some of the lowest showings in his history.

And yet while powered up he had some of his lowest showings in history as well (Black Panther).

He has since been portrayed as much much more powerful since then so using scans from that era is just not only foolish but irrelevant. I have almost all surfers comics so ive seen most of his low showings. But if u feel d need to bring up irrelevant scans that signify a weak arguement go right ahead.

Okay, how about this; bring me a scan or a reference where this weakness is SPECIFICALLY referenced.

Mind you, I want this reference to be in regards to Surfer's entrapment on earth SPECIFICALLY having weakened him, rather than the after effects of a cosmic nullifier or the like.

And in that scan SS was NOT just dodging a bunch of laser beams, He specifically said that he needed to take out all those ships quickly and hence blitzed and destroyed them in one panel. Its very obvious if u actually read the scan.

I've looked at them, but bum rushing a bunch of ships does not constitute COMBAT Super Speed (Super SPeed perceptions) in my eyes.

It's travel super speed. We've seen Green Lantern's do the same.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Combat speed feats, none of which are dodging lasers or bullrushing ships:

[Snipped scans of teleportation and bum rushing]

Yeah, that's not combat Super Speed.

Surfer tracks the TRAJECTORY of a teleportation which takes an unknown amount of time to work and fires where the energy is going to be.

Super Speed would have been him reacting to the appearance of the dragon monster and firing before the Dragon Monster was capable of doing anything.

The second one was just bumrushing again, grabbing Nova as he did it.

We've seen lots of characters WITHOUT combat super speed do just that.

Originally posted by Enyalus

PROVE IT

For the last time, what the hell is it you are referencing, because personally I know of nothing at all even near that temperature and am calling BS on that whole thing.

No, I don't agree. I've already told you, kinetic energy does not effing stack like that. The speed Supes shoots his HV does not matter! Photons travel at light speed to the earth every nanosecond. Are there a bunch of crators in the Earth because of it? Of course not. Konvikt took Supes' full powered HV to the face and let out a yelp, which was about it. SS has taken punches and blasts from two abstracts in Annihilation and wasn't dropped. Supes HV won't be a problem. Besides that, he can easily dodge it. [/B]

Right...so if we have a beam that is 400 million K that it shot out at high speeds it would be the same if the energy was just static lol. Oh and you're saying SS wasn't in any way harmed from T&A and that he just simply shrugges off there blows. I find that "dodge it"comment pretty funny heh.