Superman vs Silver surfer

Surfer ownz Sups:
He's faster, and he's way more versatile, and have a better power output.

And if Sups, somehow, come close to Surfer, he can turn intengible. And the, Sups is ****ed.

Also, if Surfer isn't in the mood of fighting, he can just bfr Sups. Like in the beginning or at the end of time, on the nose of Galactus, etc.
Surfer might also teleport Superman in Superman's ass.

Sups just have no chance at all of winning. He lacks the versatility nescessary to go up against SS. Not that he isn't versatile. The dude got vast array of powers that make character like the Hulk totally useless. But he have absolutly nothing on Surfer, bar his skills, and MAYBE his strenght. But since he has no way to touch him...

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Tell him to do that in front of a red sun and he'd be JUST as good as the Surfer.

Also, not the point, wish ppl read arguments instead of skipping to the end.

Your point was that Surfer was far better at tanking energy attacks, specifically heat ones, but your example was something Superman could easily do as well...

^ Has Superman sat around or in stars that didn't simultaneously amp him? Because the comparison isn't quite accurate then. Although he took the extreme view, I think that's the notion he's trying to get across.

Ironically he metnioned Surfer amping off the star's heat. Regardless, Superman can still survive such a level of heat. In fact he flies through a red star while battling Prime in Infinite Crisis.

Originally posted by ares834
Ironically he metnioned Surfer amping off the star's heat. Regardless, Superman can still survive such a level of heat. In fact he flies through a red star while battling Prime in Infinite Crisis.

And SS has to actively absorb the energy from a star, it's not passive.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well it's not like he instantly loses his powers.

Originally posted by ares834
Your point was that Surfer was far better at tanking energy attacks, specifically heat ones, but your example was something Superman could easily do as well...

When has Superman -casually- sat inside a star other than a yellow sun? Surviving something =/= casually sitting in it. Gamorra survived exposure to the sun doesn't mean her energy resistance is on par with the Surfer. :-/

And yes, Surfer CAN amp off a star's heat by drawing it into himself (Infinity Crusade, I think) and I don't see how that helps your argument any as Surfer has tanked OTHER energy based attacks (he literally raised an eyebrow after an entire alien armada unloaded their energy weapons on him, survived taking a dip in the Crunch-energies that could kill high abstracts on-panel, take planet-busting energy attacks from Korvac and simply shrugged it off, taking direct hits from energy blasts from T&A, etc.). The reason I used stars is that it is a quantifiable measurement of heat on both Comic Universes and Surfer has just literally ignored the heat coming from stars/supernovas whenever he dipped into them.

My point was that heat (w/o some sort of context) is mostly ineffective against the Surfer and guess what? Supe's primary ranged attack is heat-based. Didn't say HV will have zero effect on the Surfer, I'm stating that the attack will have a greatly diminished effect (due to absorption and base energy durability). And since, even at its peak, HV is far less powerful than Surfer's cosmic blasts, Surfer can easily win the ranged fight.

But gratz for trying to derail my point by stating irrelevant information.

Originally posted by ares834
But he survived it none the less... Hence he can survive a star's heat without it simultaneously amping him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Has Superman sat around or in stars that didn't simultaneously amp him? Because the comparison isn't quite accurate then. Although he took the extreme view, I think that's the notion he's trying to get across.

Originally posted by ares834
But he survived it none the less... Hence he can survive a star's heat without it simultaneously amping him.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
[B]When has Superman -casually- sat inside a star other than a yellow sun? Surviving something =/= casually sitting in it. Gamorra survived exposure to the sun doesn't mean her energy resistance is on par with the Surfer. :-/

Then use a better example next time. Because saying SS can survive inside a star, therefore he has batter heat resistence is completly wrong.

The reason I used stars is that it is a quantifiable measurement of heat on both Comic Universes and Surfer has just literally ignored the heat coming from stars/supernovas whenever he dipped into them.

As has Supes.

My point was that heat (w/o some sort of context) is mostly ineffective against the Surfer and guess what? Supe's primary ranged attack is heat-based. Didn't say HV will have zero effect on the Surfer, I'm stating that the attack will have a greatly diminished effect (due to absorption and base energy durability). And since, even at its peak, HV is far less powerful than Surfer's cosmic blasts, Surfer can easily win the ranged fight.

I never said Superman's HV was greater than SS blasts. Regardless, you were also saying that SS is far better at taking heat than Superman.

Originally posted by ares834
Then use a better example next time. Because saying SS can survive inside a star, therefore he has batter heat resistence is completly wrong.

I didn't say "survive", I said casually sit in front of stars. Perhaps my use of words wasn't clear enough.

Fine. Surfer can casually sit inside stars while getting zero effect from the heat/radiation from it.

Better?

Originally posted by ares834
As has Supes.

Casually? I'll bite.

Other than the yellow sun, when was this?

Originally posted by ares834
I never said Superman's HV was greater than SS blasts.

Then what point are you trying to make? That my use of words isn't clear enough for you?

Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, you were also saying that SS is far better at taking heat than Superman.

Because that's true?

Also, it can't be "regardless" as I was stating a complete point with a few smaller subpoints. The subpoints should be "rergardless" but my main point still stands.

The simple fact is Superman has survived traveling through stars as well with no noticeable impact from their heat. Obviously there are the examples dealing with the Sun, but if you wish to discount them there is the one of Rao as well. The heat of the star had absolutely no noticeable impact on Superman; despite the fact that he was being depowered by it and the fact he had just previously traveled through a Kryptonite asteroid. So yes, Superman, despite being depowered (and the subsequent fight clearly showed he was depowered), has shown an equal resistance to heat, unless SS has an example that trumps this.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thing is hv prob wouldn't effect surfer much...with his silver cosmic durability

10 thousand degree and couldn't even feel a thing, Supes could def. go higher but he did say it wouldn't make a diff if he just stood and watch inside the core sun while big G does his magic but decided not to..

I don't think think heat (HV) is even going to slow him down and taking from that scan, it would probably just ricochet off him.. Just my 2 cents..

Originally posted by ares834

If it has not noticable impact on him despite being depowered... Then yes, he clearly could.

Originally posted by ares834
The simple fact is Superman has survived traveling through stars as well with no noticeable impact from their heat. Obviously there are the examples dealing with the Sun, but if you wish to discount them there is the one of Rao as well. The heat of the star had absolutely no noticeable impact on Superman; despite the fact that he was being depowered by it and the fact he had just previously traveled through a Kryptonite asteroid. So yes, Superman, despite being depowered (and the subsequent fight clearly showed he was depowered), has shown an equal resistance to heat, unless SS has an example that trumps this.

If this is the instance you're talking about:

http://img206.imageshack.us/f/supermenvssbp2am3.jpg/
http://img178.imageshack.us/f/supermenvssbp3ny3.jpg/

Wow. Gigantic leaps of logic there, don't you think?

1) He's clearly not "depowered". Weakened, maybe. Hurt, maybe. But "depowered". He CLEARLY still had powers there. Red Sun weakens Superman but doesn't insta-gib him on contact. Duh.

Lol on trying to make the feat more than it seems by throwing in the "depowered" label on it. Fact is, you can't prove:
-To what extent he was depowered.
-How long he even stayed in the sun.
-If it even affected his durability and to what extent.

2) NONE of that was done casually.

3)"Absolutely no noticeable impact"? Wow. He's on his face, down on the ground, barely conscious. Annnd, I guess for you that's "absolutely no noticeable impact"...

I guess when you're a Superman fan, that's considered "no noticeable impact..."

Surfer still trumps that feat easily... :-/

http://img410.imageshack.us/f/silversurfer2ip7.jpg/

Originally posted by ares834
If it has not noticable impact on him despite being depowered... Then yes, he clearly could.

Wheeee for leaps of logic with no/weak proof....

Speaking of red stars...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=11267813

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
If this is the instance you're talking about:

http://img206.imageshack.us/f/supermenvssbp2am3.jpg/
http://img178.imageshack.us/f/supermenvssbp3ny3.jpg/

Wow. Gigantic leaps of logic there, don't you think?

1) He's clearly not "depowered". Weakened, maybe. Hurt, maybe. But "depowered". He CLEARLY still had powers there. Red Sun weakens Superman but doesn't insta-gib him on contact. Duh.

Lol on trying to make the feat more than it seems by throwing in the "depowered" label on it. Fact is, you can't prove:
-To what extent he was depowered.
-How long he even stayed in the sun.
-If it even affected his durability and to what extent.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
[B ] 3)"Absolutely no noticeable impact"? Wow. He's on his face, down on the ground, barely conscious. Annnd, I guess for you that's "absolutely no noticeable impact"...[/B]

Originally posted by ares834
Lol you must have missed the rest of the issue. Where Prime lost his HV powers and where Kent was smacking around Prime. Clearly Prime was depowered, despite the fact that he wasn’t being affected by Kryptonite and he was previously amping himself up with his suit.

Reread my reply. It doesn't "insta-gib" them meaning it takes time to affect them. For the purposes of the scan you presented, it seemed that they still pretty much had their powers when they impacted the planet w/c was FAR AWAY from the heat of the sun already.

Meaning the whole "ignoring the sun's heat while depowerED" schpiel is questionable.

Originally posted by ares834
And depowered doesn’t necessarily mean they lose their powers completely.

"de-" is often used to indicate removal of something.

Perhaps you just used the wrong word. I'll give you that. Perhaps you meant "weakened". That doesn't help your argument any as you have no proof as to what extent they were weakened or if they even started to get weak at the point of impact with the sun.

Bottom line? They still had their powers there and they obviously got affected by their dip in the sun.

Meaning Surfer feat > Superman feat with respect to this comparison. Now if you have any OTHER feats you wanna bring in, feel free.

Originally posted by ares834
From the heat sure. They just slammed into a planet at ridiculous speeds… I mean there are clearly no burn marks on any of them at the time.

I guess falling down into a planet >>> heat of a sun to you then. There goes Superman's impact durability...!

Those were some pretty small craters for slamming into a planet at "ridiculous speeds".

I mean lets just ignore the smoke coming out from them, too. 🙂

Good joooob.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Reread my reply. It doesn't "insta-gib" them meaning it takes time to affect them. For the purposes of the scan you presented, it seemed that they still pretty much had their powers when they impacted the planet w/c was FAR AWAY from the heat of the sun already.

Meaning the whole "ignoring the sun's heat while depowerED" schpiel is questionable.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
"de-" is often used to indicate removal of something. [/B]

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Bottom line? They still had their powers there and they obviously got affected by their dip in the sun. [/B]

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I guess falling down into a planet >>> heat of a sun to you then. There goes Superman's impact durability...! [/B]

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Those were some pretty small craters for slamming into a planet at "ridiculous speeds". [/B]

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I mean lets just ignore the smoke coming out from them, too. 🙂 [/B]

Good joooob.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure it will not “insta-gip” them, but clearly the effects of red radiation will be far more powerful near the star then far away from it. I am unsure what you point is here... They were clearly "weakened" when they went into the star, sure we may not know to what extant but their powers weren't at the top of their game.

Through your own admission, the exposure took a few seconds. Red Sun Radiation takes a while for it to fully affect Superman. Meaning that the extent of him being depowered during his seconds (or less) long exposure to the heat of the sun in this scan is questionable, at best.

Even IRL ,exposure to radiation takes a while for it's full effects to be felt even to a normal human at high levels.

Originally posted by ares834
Or to reduce or “de”grade.

Yeah they were affected, their powers were lessened…

Which you can't quantify in amount or chronology. Meaning that you can't prove the level of depowering that happened to the extent of it being relevant to this debate. But feel free to throw around exaggerated assumptions if you like.

Originally posted by ares834
Then his strength is going out the roof! Considering the fact that he knocked Prime out in a couple punches…

How does this address my point at all?

Originally posted by ares834
Considering that they traveled from a star to a planet in three panels… Yes, those had to be ridiculous speeds, unless it took them hours…

Ok, you said it, not me. Seconds of exposure, gotcha.

Still doesn't remove the validity of my argument of you stating that impacting a planet > heat of a sun. Lol.

What cute craters they left for ppl who seemed to have hit the planet at such velocity, eh?

Originally posted by ares834
And this means they weren’t resistant how? Hell, the Surfer is on fire when he emerges. Clearly his heat durability is even worse. 😱 (yeah I know they were on fire as well) Really though I am unsure how this makes them unable to resist high temps, the smoke just signifies they are really hot.

You were the one who stated that they had no burn marks. Smoke is often used as "burn marks" in comics. :-/

Funny thing is, this whole debate is moot as you seemed to have zeroed in on ONE of my subpoints (Surfer vs Superman heat resistance comparison-perhaps the LEAST relevant of all my argumentations) and ignored the rest of my points... :-/

So, all you wanna see here is to somehow prove that Superman has superior heat resistance to Surfer, w/c btw has almost zero relevance to how the fight will transpire anyway?

I mean, what are you trying to achieve here?