Originally posted by janus77
Nothing, ignore the comment. It was relevant only whilst you had that emoticon up.Anyway, Surfer destroys Superman, it's just classic "rock, paper, scissors", for every move Superman has, Surfer has a better one (and then some).
Not really. But I know its pointless to debate against you.
Originally posted by abhilegendI never said he uses all his abilities to their fullest only when you claimed he dodged every attack. Surfer can take Superman on head to head and still come out on top. More powerful, versatile and durable imo.
If we go by that route surfer wouldn't even do the "board to the head" attack. He normally just zips around, blast things and try to get h2h with opponents. Sorry quan, these rules apply to both.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said he uses all his abilities to their fullest only when you claimed he dodged every attack. Surfer can take Superman on head to head and still come out on top. More powerful, versatile and durable imo.
Pretty much. Every power Superman has, Surfer has, PLUS INTEREST. This isn't a fight for Superman.
Originally posted by carver9
Pretty much. Every power Superman has, Surfer has, PLUS INTEREST. This isn't a fight for Superman.
Surfer doesn't have superman's fighting skill, h2h fighting speed, or strength.
The strength advantage and CIS on Surfer's part would give Superman at least 3 fights. Surfer fights heralds (especially Thor) very dumb. You can't deny this. If Surfer gets to fight the way you are thinking then he dog walks Thor too. You can't have it both ways.
FYI, Surfer doesn't have super breath, martial art skills, hv, super hearing, or planetary strength. So again, how does he have every power Superman has?
Surfer wins high majority. Superior, more effective and more versatile offense that can be used at range (Red sun radiation, Solar energy drain, as well as straight cosmic blasts which can be fired omni-directionally), in addition to a superior defense involving being able to attack from range, durability, and top notch forcefields.
As is generally accepted, this match is pretty clear cut. Not a stomp by any means, but a definite winner in the Surfer.
Originally posted by h1a8FYI, Surfer doesn't have super breath, martial art skills, hv, super hearing, or planetary strength. So again, how does he have every power Superman has?
Well he doesnt have super breath, but he can simulate it as he controls the elements. Im pretty sure he can simulate heat blasts as well, and he can fire his cosmic blasts from his eyes.
Also cosmic senses are better than super hearing and vision.
But I agree with the Strength and H2H Skills. They go to Supes, and Surfer doesnt want to go H2H with the guy unless he wants to lose!
Originally posted by Naija boy
Surfer wins high majority. Superior, more effective and more versatile offense that can be used at range (Red sun radiation, Solar energy drain, as well as straight cosmic blasts which can be fired omni-directionally), in addition to a superior defense involving being able to attack from range, durability, and top notch forcefields.As is generally accepted, this match is pretty clear cut. Not a stomp by any means, but a definite winner in the Surfer.
I agree. It's just that some are saying 10/10 when we all know Surfer fights heralds dumb like all the time. Just look at his fights with Thor. He doesn't fight Thor the way he would be portrayed in a forum fight. Less than 1% of the time in a one on one fight against another herald Surfer doesn't even try to drain a character or use weakness exploitation. His primary instinct is to do general blasts and allow other heralds to close the distance in a h2h confrontation.
I just don't like being boxed in. Superman can't fight the way I want him to yet Surfer and others can when it suits a particular debater in a particular thread. Surfer's character and style of fighting heralds gives Superman a few wins. Surfer still wins a majority though. No one here is arguing that. Not even me.
With or without weakness exploitation, Surfer wins (less difficulty with) as long as he keeps Superman at a distance. Up close, Supes takes it: he's more creative with his powers, is better at h2h, and generally rises to impossible odds better than other heroes.
These are my two favorite characters. I'm not short-changing either of them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said he uses all his abilities to their fullest only when you claimed he dodged every attack. Surfer can take Superman on head to head and still come out on top. More powerful, versatile and durable imo.
Originally posted by abhilegendTo me Surfer is more durable and more powerful so an up close and personal blast will really do some damage. He doesn't need weakness exploitation to win he's shown he can beat the tar out of Beta Ray Bill while holding back and shrug off Thor's attacks who imo is more powerful than Superman.
No he doesn't. He can dodge it as many times as much as surfer can do the "board to head" attack which he has done how many times in his 40 years of publishing? No he doesn't, if he goes h2h he is going to lose.
Surfer is going to have to work for it but beats him no matter how you look at it.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Surfer wins high majority. Superior, more effective and more versatile offense that can be used at range (Red sun radiation, Solar energy drain, as well as straight cosmic blasts which can be fired omni-directionally), in addition to a superior defense involving being able to attack from range, durability, and top notch forcefields.As is generally accepted, this match is pretty clear cut. Not a stomp by any means, but a definite winner in the Surfer.
Originally posted by quanchi112
To me Surfer is more durable and more powerful so an up close and personal blast will really do some damage. He doesn't need weakness exploitation to win he's shown he can beat the tar out of Beta Ray Bill while holding back and shrug off Thor's attacks who imo is more powerful than Superman.Surfer is going to have to work for it but beats him no matter how you look at it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer wins here but its a hard fought battle. Red sun light is pretty much useless in daylight, energy drain is highly unlikely as even classic eradicator was amazed at how much energy superman's dying body holds in DOS and he absorbs more sunlight as he stresses. Its his ranged attacks that give him the win. Don't count much on force-fields, kal has tore through gl shields like paper and once killed a 100-tonner (Uncle Sam) with hal's ring in one punch. Surfer wins here 6/10 but he's gonna be sore for the rest of his life. 😛
Proof that red sunlight is useless in daylight? The Ruin feat certainly doesnt prove that. Eradicator being amazed at DOS superman holding alot of energy really doesnt tell me much about how his energy cant be drained (especially when i can point to a statement by triumph which indicates otherwise). Surfers forcefields have kept out a mindless hulk and blocked attacks from Skrier (who is skyfather+) among other things. They arent gonna simply go down in one or two hits...and provide a very good added defense avenue.
Originally posted by janus77I think if we let loose with our imaginations, we can conjure up all kinds of scenarios which benefit either character. As I've posted many a time, a let-loose Surfer is beyond my imagination: he really would (or should) be the closest thing to a genuine Godlike hero. On the other hand, Superman really is unique among heroes: it is the essence of his character that he invariable defeat any opponent. IMO, that's the whole point of Superman: the modern, original incarnation of the Hero archetype.
Can't Surfer go intangible and simply crush Superman with blasts and blackholes?
So to simplify matters, to make for maximum excitement, and to be most fair (I hope), I approach these fights as if I were going to write the comic.
Case in point: the original 1981 fight between Superman and the Hulk (my 3rd favorite character). I thought it was handled beautifully: it is still may favorite crossover battle. After back-and-forth blows, Supes plants his feet, says he can't be moved if he don't wanna be moved, and the Hulk wails away against an unflinching Superman's chest. This wonderfully highlights the power of Big Blue. But then the narration says Hulk is getting stronger and stronger with every passing moment, to where Superman (pre-crisis!) has to block a punch. The "outcome of the strange duel is in doubt." This beautifully highlights the power of the Hulk.
This is how I'd approach a fight between Surfer and Superman. I'd want to do both of them justice.