Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're confusing "unusable" as "non-canon". Surfer vs Cyborg is unusable as per the rules, it doesn't makes it non canon though. Only the comics can make a showing non canon.

You can look back and see that I never once used the word 'canon', but referred inadmissable stuff.

You asked me what rule prohibited canon fights, to which I replied 'the rule about crossover fights'.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What rule prohibits canon fights as per the comics?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So yeah, Surfer and Cyborh have met. Their fights is not usable though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And I say this again, stop backseat modding.

"What does Backseat Moderating mean?
Let me tell you. When you post "this thread needs to be closed", "close please", "wrong forum", "this person should be banned", "so and so is a sock", etc. This is in fact considered SPAM. Another thing on this same train of thought: It's one thing to say "wrong forum" or "close please" but another to say that after someone else has already said it. That's even worse. Don't post if you think the thread is idiotic, just inform a moderator. We're here to do a job, not you."

Now that we all agree on what is inadmissable for these fights, I won't have to keep nagging you on the rules 🙂

Originally posted by krisblaze
There's nothing that prohibits you from using it to make up your mind, privately.

But when you're using it as a basis for arguments on this site then you're clearly going beyond that.

Using non cannon stuff cool, she hulk rocked the shit out of Superman with a punch yet couldn't even effect Surfer.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Using non cannon stuff cool, she hulk rocked the shit out of Superman with a punch yet couldn't eve effect Surfer.

😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not under the same writer. And the same writer had Darkseid oneshotting surfer with omega beams and we all know how Superman vs Darkseid goes.

The same writer - John Bryne- said Superman should have crushed every bone in his hand trying to catch Mjolnir.

So it's cool let's stick to what he says.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It isn't usable. Doesn't means we can't gauge at how characters stack to each other. Even the writer who wrote the weakest Superman, Dan Jurgens said that Superman would beat Surfer. 99 out of 100 times and Surfer would be lucky to get one win.

Ah Jurgens... Yes the guy who wrote one of my favorite Thor runs. Same writer also gives Thor the win over Superman due to the magic factor.

Cool Abhi, thanks for proving Thor is the top dog.

👆

Best crossover ever and he was compared to Doomsday. I think it was said he was more powerful than Doomsday.

http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs1.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs2.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs4.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs3.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs5.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Best crossover ever and he was compared to Doomsday. I think it was said he was more powerful than Doomsday.

http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs1.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs2.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs4.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs3.jpg
http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/venom/vvs5.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer has 1 feat (that's ambiguous) of crossing galaxies as blurs or something like that. The problem is there are trillions of galaxies. Superman going to the edge of the universe in mere moments trumps that. I'm not saying Superman is faster but Superman is not going to give Surfer time to do anything exotic. Think about it. Superman's combat speed feats are greater though.

It's irrelevant that Surfer can go intangible. My argument is that Superman can avoid some of Surfer's attacks by going intangible. That doesn't mean Superman will win but rather it would be hard for him to lose.

Surfer can't go exotic because Superman won't just sit there and allow it. Superman would be attacking. Raise hand my ass. Surfer's exotic powers requires him to shoot energy out (mostly in blast form) to create an effect.

Surfer has a glass jaw. Sure he can take a punch sometimes, but mostly he gets rocked like hell. All heralds can survive in stars. That's nothing. Surfer only fought inside the event horizon, he didn't touch the singularity.

If Superman hits Surfer just once, then Surfer will be rocked to all hell. And the fight will be downhill from there. Superman is stronger than any foe Surfer ever faced. Thor always manages to rock Surfer with his hammer throws or hammer hits.

Surfer can't do everything. He has no great combat skill. He's a blaster. That's his weakness. Fisticuffs and he will be outmatch by several high herald level beings. He has a glass jaw when it comes to very strong high herald level blunt force attacks. Superman has fighting skills and pressure point ability as well as ranged attacks (hv) and the cheating freeze breath.

Bottomline: This fight can go either way. If Surfer is defensive minded all day long then he wins the majority. But if he gets aggressive then his chances to slip becomes greater and Superman can win a slight majority.

Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer has 1 feat (that's ambiguous) of crossing galaxies as blurs or something like that. The problem is there are trillions of galaxies. Superman going to the edge of the universe in mere moments trumps that. I'm not saying Superman is faster but Superman is not going to give Surfer time to do anything exotic. Think about it. Superman's combat speed feats are greater though.

It's irrelevant that Surfer can go intangible. My argument is that Superman can avoid some of Surfer's attacks by going intangible. That doesn't mean Superman will win but rather it would be hard for him to lose.

Surfer can't go exotic because Superman won't just sit there and allow it. Superman would be attacking. Raise hand my ass. Surfer's exotic powers requires him to shoot energy out (mostly in blast form) to create an effect.

Surfer has a glass jaw. Sure he can take a punch sometimes, but mostly he gets rocked like hell. All heralds can survive in stars. That's nothing. Surfer only fought inside the event horizon, he didn't touch the singularity.

If Superman hits Surfer just once, then Surfer will be rocked to all hell. And the fight will be downhill from there. Superman is stronger than any foe Surfer ever faced. Thor always manages to rock Surfer with his hammer throws or hammer hits.

Surfer can't do everything. He has no great combat skill. He's a blaster. That's his weakness. Fisticuffs and he will be outmatch by several high herald level beings. He has a glass jaw when it comes to very strong high herald level blunt force attacks. Superman has fighting skills and pressure point ability as well as ranged attacks (hv) and the cheating freeze breath.

Bottomline: This fight can go either way. If Surfer is defensive minded all day long then he wins the majority. But if he gets aggressive then his chances to slip becomes greater and Superman can win a slight majority.

Prove Surfer has a glass jaw since his upgrade during annihilation. Surfer has not been koed in a straight up fight by anyone since this and he has fought against two Galactus level beings, High Heralds, etc...

Surfer exotic abilities takes nothing but a thought and even if it takes a blast, Surfer will manage to throw off one since he does have the fts proving this.

You have nothing H1...nothing but assumptions. Surfer can create a black hole right above Superman head. Surfer can energy drain with nothing but a wave of his hand and given his speed, no matter how much you think Superman will be all over him (laughable at best tbh)...Surfer will get off ALL of these attacks. He has the durability to withstand attacks from Superman while still fighting (unless you have something proving he can't...provide scans backing up your lame claims). He has the versatility fts. His options are unlimited. Let's put it like this, whatever you can think of to put Superman out of the fight, Surfer can do it. Provide scans of Superman going intangible through attacks. Are you talking about the Doomsday Rex fight? Superman was moving side to side in super speed dodging his attacks. That isn't intangible. What other showings can H1 be referencing. Surfer can literally go intangible. Surfer can create clones to fight Superman while he sit in the back and drink coffee. Surfer can t trap Superman in his board, bfr him, create kryptonite, the list goes on and on. Hell, he has even shown that he can take people powers away from them.

Your only argument is, Superman will be all over Surfer within seconds, not realizing Surfer is by far one of the fastest Heralds in comics. Someone that can see light in slow motion and follow it to its destination. Both fighting to the best of their abilities. This fight is a stomp in Surfers favor.

Also, lol at Surfer being nothing but a blaster. He fought Skaar who was feeding off a planet twice the size of Earth in h2h and was stalemating him. Fought Abraxas h2h and had the advantage. Beat Bill down. Read H1, read.

Originally posted by carver9
Prove Surfer has a glass jaw since his upgrade during annihilation. Surfer has not been koed in a straight up fight by anyone since this and he has fought against two Galactus level beings, High Heralds, etc...

Surfer exotic abilities takes nothing but a thought and even if it takes a blast, Surfer will manage to throw off one since he does have the fts proving this.

You have nothing H1...nothing but assumptions. Surfer can create a black hole right above Superman head. Surfer can energy drain with nothing but a wave of his hand and given his speed, no matter how much you think Superman will be all over him (laughable at best tbh)...Surfer will get off ALL of these attacks. He has the durability to withstand attacks from Superman while still fighting (unless you have something proving he can't...provide scans backing up your lame claims). He has the versatility fts. His options are unlimited. Let's put it like this, whatever you can think of to put Superman out of the fight, Surfer can do it. Provide scans of Superman going intangible through attacks. Are you talking about the Doomsday Rex fight? Superman was moving side to side in super speed dodging his attacks. That isn't intangible. What other showings can H1 be referencing. Surfer can literally go intangible. Surfer can create clones to fight Superman while he sit in the back and drink coffee. Surfer can t trap Superman in his board, bfr him, create kryptonite, the list goes on and on. Hell, he has even shown that he can take people powers away from them.

Your only argument is, Superman will be all over Surfer within seconds, not realizing Surfer is by far one of the fastest Heralds in comics. Someone that can see light in slow motion and follow it to its destination. Both fighting to the best of their abilities. This fight is a stomp in Surfers favor.

Also, lol at Surfer being nothing but a blaster. He fought Skaar who was feeding off a planet twice the size of Earth in h2h and was stalemating him. Fought Abraxas h2h and had the advantage. Beat Bill down. Read H1, read.

From all the hits he received by high herald level characters, after annihilation, he was either koed or greatly rocked.

No, Surfer has to activate his powers by hand gestures and then blasting. All character's powers are activated with a thought. Your movements now are activated with a thought. So that's irrelevant.
Superman can easily avoid blasts is what I'm suggesting.

How can Surfer create a black hole when Superman won't let him? Remember, we are talking about a guy that can make actions within the nanosecond. It takes several seconds to create a black hole. 2nd, why would Superman stand still and allow Surfer to create a black hole over his head? He could just move out of the way.

Surfer can't create clones to fight Superman. He has no such powers. He can cast illusions, but not clones of himself who can actually fight. Even so, we still have the problem of Superman letting him. Surfer can't do anything exotic if Superman is attacking him. Surfer's exotic powers are fully activated after several seconds at least.

Surfer can't drain energy if Superman is rocking him. He wouldn't be coherent. Energy draining isn't instant either. Superman has feats of resisting being drained instantly. It would take time to drain Superman. Remember Superman can avoid any blasts shot at him, that includes blasts that drain.

Superman went intangible in the DD rex fight (no side to side was shown), against Mongul and Mongal (they shot beams at him and he went intangible so that they went through him). Basically, writers simply brought back one of his Pre Crisis powers.

Superman is faster in combat than Surfer is. We go by feats remember. Superman can avoid anything Surfer can throw at him (any types of blasts).
Superman can phuck Surfer up with a leathal dose of HV.
Superman can freeze Surfer in his tracks with his breath.
Superman can at any time go intangible to further defend against anything.
Surfer can't create kryptonite. Only kryptonite from Superman's universe works.
Superman won't give Surfer a chance to create anything.
Why can't you see this? For Surfer to do anything worth while he would need time. There is no time for him.

Originally posted by h1a8
From all the hits he received by high herald level characters, after annihilation, he was either koed or greatly rocked.

No, Surfer has to activate his powers by hand gestures and then blasting. All character's powers are activated with a thought. Your movements now are activated with a thought. So that's irrelevant.
Superman can easily avoid blasts is what I'm suggesting.

How can Surfer create a black hole when Superman won't let him? Remember, we are talking about a guy that can make actions within the nanosecond. It takes several seconds to create a black hole. 2nd, why would Superman stand still and allow Surfer to create a black hole over his head? He could just move out of the way.

Surfer can't create clones to fight Superman. He has no such powers. He can cast illusions, but not clones of himself who can actually fight. Even so, we still have the problem of Superman letting him. Surfer can't do anything exotic if Superman is attacking him. Surfer's exotic powers are fully activated after several seconds at least.

Surfer can't drain energy if Superman is rocking him. He wouldn't be coherent. Energy draining isn't instant either. Superman has feats of resisting being drained instantly. It would take time to drain Superman. Remember Superman can avoid any blasts shot at him, that includes blasts that drain.

Superman went intangible in the DD rex fight (no side to side was shown), against Mongul and Mongal (they shot beams at him and he went intangible so that they went through him). Basically, writers simply brought back one of his Pre Crisis powers.

Superman is faster in combat than Surfer is. We go by feats remember. Superman can avoid anything Surfer can throw at him (any types of blasts).
Superman can phuck Surfer up with a leathal dose of HV.
Superman can freeze Surfer in his tracks with his breath.
Superman can at any time go intangible to further defend against anything.
Surfer can't create kryptonite. Only kryptonite from Superman's universe works.
Superman won't give Surfer a chance to create anything.
Why can't you see this? For Surfer to do anything worth while he would need time. There is no time for him.

He used an after image against Mongul. Lol.

He was moving side to side against Doomsday Rex. Look at the scans.

Anyways. I want you to show me scans of Surfer being rocked by Herald levels after annihilation. Provide proof or get off the topic. If you continue with this i am going to ask a mod to intervene which doesn't give you a choice but to provide scans.

In regards to Surfers versatility...hears the guy heartbeat light yrs aways and use his versatility with just a wave of his hand.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media-full/Surfer/StarMasters3006.jpg.html

Here we have Surer going intangible traveling through a wall.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Surfer/Strange_Tales_starring_1-14.jpg.html (thanks to Bran for the scans).

In regards to speed...Surfer flew outside time and space (lol).

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Surfer/SS_v4_010_13a.jpg.html

Surfer sucks the soul right from this guy body and looking at the scan it took no time to morph and do this.

http://i49.tinypic.com/m9m1pc.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/jpbv37.jpg

Lol...Surfer flies so fast that he goes 50 yrs ahead of time.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/comic/SS_v3_131_15a.jpg.html?src=wap
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/comic/SS_v3_131_16a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/comic/SS_v3_131_18a.jpg.html

There's also a scene during Annihilators where Surfer used the power cosmic to see the past, present and the future.

No posting all of his stuff but he can create shields, OMNI blast as well...like I've stated, everything. Surfer attempting energy drain would take power from Superman, something Superman can not afford in a battle like this. Surfer options are limitless whereas punching Surfer is pretty much Superman's only option. I'm still waiting on those scans of Surfer being dropped by top tiers since annihilation and even if you provide a scene of that, I can provide you 5 showings of Superman falling to someone less powerful than Surfer and probably 100's of showings of Superman being blasted by people slower than Surfer.

Carver like all Marvel fanatics believes Superman can't beat any Marvel top tier.

Originally posted by playa1258
Carver like all Marvel fanatics believes Superman can't beat any Marvel top tier.

That is true.

Originally posted by playa1258
Carver like all Marvel fanatics believes Superman can't beat any Marvel top tier.

Im a marvel fanatic. He beats a vast majority just not surfer

Originally posted by playa1258
Carver like all Marvel fanatics believes Superman can't beat any Marvel top tier.

What makes you say that?

Originally posted by carver9
1. He used an after image against Mongul. Lol.

2. He was moving side to side against Doomsday Rex. Look at the scans.

3. Anyways. I want you to show me scans of Surfer being rocked by Herald levels after annihilation. Provide proof or get off the topic. If you continue with this i am going to ask a mod to intervene which doesn't give you a choice but to provide scans.

4. In regards to Surfers versatility...hears the guy heartbeat light yrs aways and use his versatility with just a wave of his hand.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media-full/Surfer/StarMasters3006.jpg.html

5. Here we have Surer going intangible traveling through a wall.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Surfer/Strange_Tales_starring_1-14.jpg.html (thanks to Bran for the scans).

6. In regards to speed...Surfer flew outside time and space (lol).

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Surfer/SS_v4_010_13a.jpg.html

7. Surfer sucks the soul right from this guy body and looking at the scan it took no time to morph and do this.

http://i49.tinypic.com/m9m1pc.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/jpbv37.jpg

8. Lol...Surfer flies so fast that he goes 50 yrs ahead of time.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/comic/SS_v3_131_15a.jpg.html?src=wap
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/comic/SS_v3_131_16a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/comic/SS_v3_131_18a.jpg.html

9. There's also a scene during Annihilators where Surfer used the power cosmic to see the past, present and the future.

10. No posting all of his stuff but he can create shields, OMNI blast as well...like I've stated, everything. Surfer attempting energy drain would take power from Superman, something Superman can not afford in a battle like this. Surfer options are limitless whereas punching Surfer is pretty much Superman's only option. I'm still waiting on those scans of Surfer being dropped by top tiers since annihilation and even if you provide a scene of that, I can provide you 5 showings of Superman falling to someone less powerful than Surfer and probably 100's of showings of Superman being blasted by people slower than Surfer.

1. We don't see an afterimage. We see Superman vibrating intangible. His center is exactly the same, his width is exactly the same.

2. I'm looking at the scans. Why are you trolling? There is no side to side motion anywhere. Superman is a phucking ghost when DD's fist goes through him. You are making stuff up that's not shown. This is trolling.

3. I don't have to provide scans. I can provide the issues or the actual scene where it happened. No one has every comic book but we all seen the feats.
Surfer was rocked by Thor (in Fear itself) and Warlock (in Infinity) for starters.
Now your turn, show me where Surfer wasn't affected by high herald level attacks after annihilation.

4. Like I said, Surfer MUST do a hand gesture and energy must come from him to his target.

5. Everyone knows Surfer can phase, why show scans of it?

6. Flying outside of space and time is ambiguous. And if it was meant literally then It doesn't take speed to do that. Not a feat, but rather a statement of ambiguity or hyperbole anyway.

7. There is always time in-between panels. The time between can be debated. For example, it could have take Surfer 1.2 seconds to morph. Also, I don't know the context of that feat. I would like the issue numbers if you have them.

8. That has nothing to do with quantifiable speed. It takes more than speed to time travel in Marvel. Otherwise, everyone going faster than light would time travel. In real physics, time travel to the future requires speeds just under the speed of light. Speeds over the speed of light will not get you into the future.

9. This will not help him in a fight. Remember it takes Surfer time to do those things. 1 second to Superman is like an eternity.

10. Shields are good but they can be crumbled. omnidirectional blasts are good, if you can prove the strength of them are sufficient. If you say they can destroy a planet then that's no good since Superman has tanked far greater than that.
Surfer draining Superman within a microsecond before Superman rocks him will result in nothing since Superman would regain any power he lost in an instant. That's assuming Superman doesn't even try to avoid the draining blast.

Superman has punching options, HV options (that will damage Surfer), freezing options, pressure points, intangibility options, etc.

H1...the only thing I am going to ask you again is to show Surfer getting rocked by Thor. Warlock snuck attacked him from behind. Is that all you got. Again, show us these rocking fts you are suggesting. Do i need to show you scans of Superman getting rocked? Do I need to provide scans of Superman getting taken out by blasts less powerful than Surfers?

lol at DC fans saying how SBP can smash dimensions, outrace FTL, and withstand universe busting attacks.

But surfer shows out running time, or transmutation then those same fans would scream "oh no, thats hyperbole, or out of context."

Surfer wins. Too versatile for Supes.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
lol at DC fans saying how SBP can smash dimensions, outrace FTL, and withstand universe busting attacks.

But surfer shows out running time, or transmutation then those same fans would scream "oh no, thats hyperbole, or out of context."

Surfer wins. Too versatile for Supes.

All characters have a weakness, and Superman's would certainly be the Surfer. Comparing Superman to Thor is another error. They aren't the same character, and they don't have the same power sets. Look at how Thor and the Hulk can go at it for long periods of time, but when you place the Hulk up against the Surfer, he gets drained. Thor doesn't have that problem against the Surfer. Superman would have that problem.

All of this nonsense about Superman dashing in and blitzing goes against the majority of his characters portrayals. Not that this would stop the Surfer from reacting. what seems to be the Superman argument is that he can go apeshit on characters at the drop of a dime, but the Surfer can't. People want to use Superman's best performance, but then attempt to use the Surfer's mediocre showings. So let's do that. Lets either use them at their best, or go by what we usually do, and go by what and how they battle on average.

H1 is claiming that the Surfer has been rocked by this character, and that one, which is true but then he seemingly catches amnesia for all of the times that Superman has actually been rocked by characters far less powerful than the Surfer. What happens during all of the times that Superman was backhanded by Darkseid? Does Darkseid move at FTL speeds? what about all of the times that Superman slugs it out with his opponents, or goes for the test of strength? What stops the Surfer from pulling the energy out of his cells?

Surfer has too many ways of winning this.