Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by h1a8
lies.

Surfer has fought a billion times in comics and had rarely ever TRIED to drain someone or exploit their molecular weaknesses. Superman's powers are simple and few. He has done EACH ability that's argued against him far more times than Each ability argued for Norrin. So how are you not creating double standards with other posters?

If Surfer can use rarely shown abilities then Superman should be able to use speed and counter attacks to try to avoid them. It's only fair.

Ands what's crazy is that I'm naming stuff for Superman that is in the norm. Using hv, using speed and reflexes, etc. Superman has basically a few battle powers. How on Earth do you figure he won't use 80% of them?

Let me put it simple terms first you. Surfer DID drain Hulk if his gamma energy in combat. Triumph DID successfully drain Superman using electromagnetic means. Surfer DOES have control over the electromagnetic spectrum. Superman IS a solar energy battery. Why the hell would Surfer at some point not look to drain Superman at some point during the battle? I lied about nothing, by the way.

Also Polaris brought Supes to his knee's by merely bending the sunlight away from him.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Let me put it simple terms first you. Surfer DID drain Hulk if his gamma energy in combat. Triumph DID successfully drain Superman using electromagnetic means. Surfer DOES have control over the electromagnetic spectrum. Superman IS a solar energy battery. Why the hell would Surfer at some point not look to drain Superman at some point during the battle? I lied about nothing, by the way.

I have no problem with Surfer employing the drain tactic. But it wouldn't be easy as Superman wouldn't be sitting there allowing it to happen. Hv is just one way to stop an attempt.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also Polaris brought Supes to his knee's by merely bending the sunlight away from him.

Forgot about that! I couldn't remember which character did that. Surfer could do that in his sleep.

Also, we can end this debate now. I have it on high authority that Surfer is the best of the best:

abhilegend

Originally posted by Bouboumaster_
High balled, but you have to admit that his feats can back him too, no?_
Yeah, totally. Surfer is the highest of high heralds out there for a reason BUT he has his limits, vulnerabilities and low showings like everyone else. To presume that only the high feats matter here is just foolish.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-564396-annihilators-vs-gods.html

😂 Archives are a *****. Apparently Abby's marriage to Superman doesn't exactly span decades.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also Polaris brought Supes to his knee's by merely bending the sunlight away from him.

Originally posted by h1a8
assuming that is true (prove it), how is that relevant here?

It's been brought up here before.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t419843.html

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
It's been brought up here before.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t419843.html

Assuming he did, then how is it relevant to this fight?

Originally posted by One-Punch
Actually, it was YZ who restored Wild Cat and Plastic Man.

See the scan below:

Yz says... "Hell of a day huh? Thought I would stick around...[b]Maybe do something for all the people QSWP and LKZ messed up"

Right after that, Wild Cat (and Plastic Man later) spontaneously come back to life. The Flashes did help Plastic Man, but based on the scan above, I think YZ helped. [/B]

It is explained in the comic even way before Wild cat dies, hypolita ask Wild Cat how is it possible that he is doing the super hero thing in his 70's

and here wild cat explains he has 9 lives

In case you still have doubts Here is his dc entry in whihc states that resurrection is one of his powers

"Resurrection: Ted Grant possesses the ability to return from the dead, a total of nine times. These "nine lives" are characteristic of the mythical properties of average house cats.[1] Ted apparently acquired this power when the magician Zatara altered a curse placed on him by the villain King Inferno. He at one point believed he had used up all nine lives, but the sorcerer Mordru (while disguised as Doctor Fate) later informed him that he always has nine lives unless he is killed nine times in a single 'cycle'."

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Ted_Grant_(New_Earth)

Plastic man was restored by the Flashes

Originally posted by One-Punch
See the scan above. YZ said he would "do something" about all the people LKZ and QWSP messed up.

It seems more like reality warping or high-level matter manipulation. The process and power comes from magic, but the end-product isn't necessarily magical.

A few points here of which We all should be aware off

Originally posted by One-Punch
But I've already listed why Triumph wasn't powered by magic:
- Steel says Triumph's powers are electromagnetic based, not magic

The powers were granted trhough 5d magic, it will be hard to think that someone who the wizard shazam granted powers will not have that magical nature of powers. IMO

Originally posted by One-Punch
- Superman didn't show vulnerability or reference magic when he fought Triumph

Superman states at the beginning of the arc that 5D magic can manipulate time and space and impose new laws of physics, he also states that there is no defence for it.

Originally posted by One-Punch
- Triumph never mentions his powers being magic

- No other character or narration says his powers are powered by magic.
- Triumph could've wish for anything, but he ONLY wished for his powers back and nothing else (besides better hair).

If you find one statement that says Triumph is powered by magic, I'll immediately reverse my position. But there isn't any though.

No he does not, however he showed powerd he never had before and at some point after the merging of the two Djinns he was asking why the magic words were not working.

Triumph never showed telekinesis to control humans and that power disapeared almost as soon as the Djinns merged. Also IIRC he never displayed that 360 degree hyper senses prior to The 5D power grant. So there is that.

Also for those claiming that Mr Myx restored the universe and therefore is a magical universe it seems they forget a few things

Mr Myx restored the universe but he even stated that EVERYTHING IS BACK TO NORMAL.

Usually in a 5d event when the imp leaves the 3d most thigs go back to normal with out too much trouble

In some cases people are affected by those events

In the case of Mr Myx restoring the universe it took him 5 hours to do it and the supervision of the Spectre to do it, so everything was BACK TO NORMAL

So at the best the Triumph example is a dubious feat that cannot be tagged to SS because of the magic involved and the display of powers he never had before.

Can't say I interpreted Triumph as having extra power. I just thought it was poor writing and one of those erratic plot devices that Superman suffers from due to his high number of appearances.

Originally posted by Knife
Can't say I interpreted Triumph as having extra power. I just thought it was poor writing and one of those erratic plot devices that Superman suffers from due to his high number of appearances.

He did at least displayed one extra power which is the telekenisis for sure, also as far as I am aware he never displayes the 360 hyper view not even on his own comics. Also worth to mention but not a deal breaker his power display trough most of his history on other comics was diplayed as a yellow energy never as blue sparks. but like I said is not a deal breaker

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
He did at least displayed one extra power which is the telekenisis for sure, also as far as I am aware he never displayes the 360 hyper view not even on his own comics. Also worth to mention but not a deal breaker his power display trough most of his history on other comics was diplayed as a yellow energy never as blue sparks. but like I said is not a deal breaker

Yeah, but that could just be the artists interpretation. As for extra powers, it's Morrison for goodness sake, who knows what was going on in his head. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just not how I saw it at the time. I haven't read that story in probably 15 years or more so, who knows.

Originally posted by Knife
Yeah, but that could just be the artists interpretation. As for extra powers, it's Morrison for goodness sake, who knows what was going on in his head. I'm not saying your wrong, it's just not how I saw it at the time. I haven't read that story in probably 15 years or more so, who knows.

👆

Originally posted by Knife
Can't say I interpreted Triumph as having extra power. I just thought it was poor writing and one of those erratic plot devices that Superman suffers from due to his high number of appearances.

Bravo, sir.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
He did at least displayed one extra power which is the telekenisis for sure, also as far as I am aware he never displayes the 360 hyper view not even on his own comics. Also worth to mention but not a deal breaker his power display trough most of his history on other comics was diplayed as a yellow energy never as blue sparks. but like I said is not a deal breaker

Double post, ****.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
It is explained in the comic even way before Wild cat dies, hypolita ask Wild Cat how is it possible that he is doing the super hero thing in his 70's

and here wild cat explains he has 9 lives

In case you still have doubts Here is his dc entry in whihc states that resurrection is one of his powers

"Resurrection: Ted Grant possesses the ability to return from the dead, a total of nine times. These "nine lives" are characteristic of the mythical properties of average house cats.[1] Ted apparently acquired this power when the magician Zatara altered a curse placed on him by the villain King Inferno. He at one point believed he had used up all nine lives, but the sorcerer Mordru (while disguised as Doctor Fate) later informed him that he always has nine lives unless he is killed nine times in a single 'cycle'."

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Ted_Grant_(New_Earth)

Plastic man was restored by the Flashes

A few points here of which We all should be aware off

The powers were granted trhough 5d magic, it will be hard to think that someone who the wizard shazam granted powers will not have that magical nature of powers. IMO

Superman states at the beginning of the arc that 5D magic can manipulate time and space and impose new laws of physics, he also states that there is no defence for it.

No he does not, however he showed powerd he never had before and at some point after the merging of the two Djinns he was asking why the magic words were not working.

Triumph never showed telekinesis to control humans and that power disapeared almost as soon as the Djinns merged. Also IIRC he never displayed that 360 degree hyper senses prior to The 5D power grant. So there is that.

Also for those claiming that Mr Myx restored the universe and therefore is a magical universe it seems they forget a few things

Mr Myx restored the universe but he even stated that EVERYTHING IS BACK TO NORMAL.

Usually in a 5d event when the imp leaves the 3d most thigs go back to normal with out too much trouble

In some cases people are affected by those events

In the case of Mr Myx restoring the universe it took him 5 hours to do it and the supervision of the Spectre to do it, so everything was BACK TO NORMAL

So at the best the Triumph example is a dubious feat that cannot be tagged to SS because of the magic involved and the display of powers he never had before.

I guess Plasticman is powered by the speedforce. 😂

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Sorry Rao, the scenario isn't even the least bit dubious despite your best effort. You cant argue things that simply arent there. Also, how is being "as vulnerable as the next guy" to magic different to not having any defense to magic?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I guess Plasticman is powered by the speedforce. 😂

Nothing of substance though. Flashes rubbed Plastic man trough speed. Molecular manipulation trough speed something even Superman has done 😈

Btw Dr Stanger restored Mjolnir using the Odin force so 😂

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet

He shows powers never displayed before after he is powered by a 5D imp. And has no access to magic after the Djiins merge.

You can't attach that feat to the SS as much as you want to. 5D magic like stated before is inherently dangerous to superman

Originally posted by Rao Kal El

I think I've spent enough time arguing about the Triumph thing, so I'll just quote my final conclusion below as to why I don't think Triumph's powers are magic based.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I'm getting tired of this "Triumph is magical" argument, when the facts don't support it.

Here is a summary of the facts:

- The ONLY thing Triumph wished for was his old powers back, nothing more and nothing less. Except for better hair.

- Steel analyzes Triumph and says his powers are electromagnetic based, NOT magic.

- Steel designed a microwave gun to specifically counter Triumph's electromagnetic powers, and it worked! He walloped Triumph twice with it.

- When Superman fought Triumph he didn't show magic vulnerability like how he did when Captain Marvel two-pieced him, and magic was NEVER referenced.

- When LKZ and YZ merged, Triumph DIDN'T revert back to Billy Mac, his human form. This suggest YZ was not powering Triumph directly.

- Triumph describes his powers as electromagnetic, see his quotes:
example1: "I can feel Earth's magnetic poles again..."
example2: "I can see radio signals...and decode satellite transmissions"
example3: "I'll fry you with an E.M.P wave!"

- None of the characters who interacted with Triumph said his powers were magical. Triumph himself never said he was powered by magic.

- There is no statement or narration in the entire story arc that says Triumph was powered by magic. Zero! None! Zilch!

The evidence overwhelmingly suggest Triumph's powers were electromagnetic based, not magic based.

Also Triumph displaying powers he hasn't had before is common for versatile characters. For example, Surfer only recently demonstrated he could attack in astral form, and also turn his body into elements like the snow and air. He's never done this before.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Nothing of substance though. Flashes rubbed Plastic man trough speed. Molecular manipulation trough speed something even Superman has done 😈

Btw Dr Stanger restored Mjolnir using the Odin force so 😂

Correct, So Mjolnir isn't powered by Strange just like Triumph isn't powered by Mxy.