Originally posted by h1a8
You are the one arguing what Superman WON'T DO while arguing what Surfer will do. Just be fair to both characters. Surfer may win but it will be hard as hell. If you see Surfer fighting in ways he usually doesn't typically do (draining, exploiting weaknesses, or anything but blasting) then how can you argue against what Superman will do? I don't care which way you go, just pick a way and stick to it for both characters. At least I argue for both characters the same way (no double standard for me). The double standard you are doing is against other debaters, not me. So you have no excuse.P.S. It's not out of character for Superman to use his perceptions and reflexes. He has done it a million times (more than Surfer). It's also not out of character for him to use his speed in a fight. He has done it a million times. I never argue Superman attacks at light speed coming out of the gate. My argument is primarily he will see things far slower than his opponents which gives him a large advantage.
Yes, I certainly am arguing what Superman won't while arguing what Surfer will do with respect to them acting in character which is both being fair to both characters and following the debating rules, something you ball up and throw in the trash can right after you wake up in the morning. Superman WON'T DO 80% of the shit you claim he would and Surfer would at some point look to drain Superman. You just don't LIKE it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Stop trolling. If you have anything substantial to add, post scans and argue about it.At this point I'm tempted to simply report you for flaming in damn near every thread.
😆
If you think that any threat is going to stop me from pointing out the lies you continue to perpetrate, you need to rethink your efforts here. How the hell am I trolling when I'm disputing your lies related to the topic? Obviously, you don't know what the term "troll" means with regard to message board jargon. How about you report yourself for turning non Superman threads into Superman flame threads? While you are at it, report youself for depicting Superman as a power set and not a character. You are familiar with that rule, correct?
Nothing has changed. You've provided zero proof that Superman can effectively resist a drain through electromagnetic means. The example you gave to discredit Triumph is completely laughable and exactly one poster agrees with you. Live with that.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
😆If you think that any threat is going to stop me from pointing out the lies you continue to perpetrate, you need to rethink your efforts here. How the hell am I trolling when I'm disputing your lies related to the topic? Obviously, you don't know what the term "troll" means with regard to message board jargon. How about you report yourself for turning non Superman threads into Superman flame threads? While you are at it, report youself for depicting Superman as a power set and not a character. You are familiar with that rule, correct?
Nothing has changed. You've provided zero proof that Superman can effectively resist a drain through electromagnetic means. The example you gave to discredit Triumph is completely laughable and exactly one poster agrees with you. Live with that.
And I don't give a shit about who agrees with me or doesn't. If you want to disagree with me, fine by me. If you want to prove me wrong, prove it by actual proofs and not flaming me in every damn thread.
Why are any of my proofs "laughable" exactly? What have you done to disprove them? Where are your scans? Where are your arguments?
Originally posted by abhilegend
So again with "lies, lies, lies" without a single proof to what I actually lied about? Figured.And I don't give a shit about who agrees with me or doesn't. If you want to disagree with me, fine by me. If you want to prove me wrong, prove it by actual proofs and not flaming me in every damn thread.
Why are any of my proofs "laughable" exactly? What have you done to disprove them? Where are your scans? Where are your arguments?
Dude, don't play dumb now. You've done nothing but make false claims and virtually everyone has called you on them. You just finished lying a little while ago today and there will likely be more lies in the future. Your lies include:
- Triumph is magically powered
- Triumph was "amped"
- Suneater drained Superman, which also includes the implication that...
- Suneater drained Superman alone
- Mxy powered characters are inherently "more dangerous to Superman" (That would be your OPINION. Such was not stated, all Superman said was that he was "as vunerable to magic as the next guy. Besides, more dangerous doesn't mean increased draining ability.)
These are all lies within espoused in ONE debate. Making statements as facts concerning things that did not occur or that haven't been proven to have occurred is lying. Plucking random scans and referring to them as proof doesn't legitimize your disinformation operation.
Originally posted by Blue Area VetI proved it.
Dude, don't play dumb now. You've done nothing but make false claims and virtually everyone has called you on them. You just finished lying a little while ago today and there will likely be more lies in the future. Your lies include:- Triumph is magically powered
Again proved.
- Triumph was "amped"
Sun eater didn't drain Superman. It drained everyone else.
- Suneater drained Superman, which also includes the implication that...
- Suneater drained Superman alone
😂
- Mxy powered characters are inherently "more dangerous to Superman" (That would be your OPINION. Such was not stated, all Superman said was that he was "as vunerable to magic as the next guy.)
Superman specifically said that as Doomsday was created by magic, it was inherently more dangerous to him. Learn to read kid.
These are all lies within espoused in ONE debate. Making statements as facts concerning things that did not occur or that haven't been proven to have occurred is lying. Plucking random scans and referring to them as proof doesn't legitimize your disinformation operation.
I actually proved all of them. Where did you or anyone else actually disprove them for them to be a lie?
Originally posted by abhilegend
I proved it. Again proved. Sun eater didn't drain Superman. It drained everyone else. 😂Superman specifically said that as Doomsday was created by magic, it was inherently more dangerous to him. Learn to read kid.
I actually proved all of them. Where did you or anyone else actually disprove them for them to be a lie?
No you actually didn't, you only proved it to Rao. 2/3rds of the voters call your bluff. One Punch along kicked your teeth in. ODG crushed your logic as did Celly, quan, carver, inhuman and myself. Here is a breakdown of your unproved claims/lies:
- Triumph is magically powered
This was not stated or shown in the storyline. You had to go outside of the storyline to mount a defense for your boy and chose a scenario that was fundamentally dissimilar. Triumph was not a magical construct, end of story.
- Triumph was "amped"
This was not stated nor shown. Doing better against a character you struggled with in the past is hardly proof of an amp. This happens all of the time in comics. And of course, it was not stated.
- Suneater drained Superman, which also includes the implication that...
- Suneater drained Superman alone
Most ridiculous lie of them all. There was no draining in the scan. The heroes drained themselves by expending high levels of their own EP to lure Suneater. That isn't even close to a drain. Secondly, even if Suneater was to have drained them, his efforts would have been divided among several herald and Prime Metas, and therefore an invalid comparison to Triumph's drain of one character.
- Mxy powered characters are inherently "more dangerous to Superman"
That would be your OPINION. Such was not "specifically stated," all Superman said was that he was "as vunerable to magic as the next guy." How the hell can you post a scan that has text and claim someone said something that is not on the damn page? Besides, more dangerous doesn't mean increased draining ability nor does it mean that he weakened Superman, which is what you slickly implied. Vunerable does not = weakeness or less resistence to electromagnetic draining.
The only thing you have proven is the lengths you are willing to go to protect your boy.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vetlies.
Yes, I certainly am arguing what Superman won't while arguing what Surfer will do with respect to them acting in character which is both being fair to both characters and following the debating rules, something you ball up and throw in the trash can right after you wake up in the morning. Superman WON'T DO 80% of the shit you claim he would and Surfer would at some point look to drain Superman. You just don't LIKE it.
Surfer has fought a billion times in comics and had rarely ever TRIED to drain someone or exploit their molecular weaknesses. Superman's powers are simple and few. He has done EACH ability that's argued against him far more times than Each ability argued for Norrin. So how are you not creating double standards with other posters?
If Surfer can use rarely shown abilities then Superman should be able to use speed and counter attacks to try to avoid them. It's only fair.
Ands what's crazy is that I'm naming stuff for Superman that is in the norm. Using hv, using speed and reflexes, etc. Superman has basically a few battle powers. How on Earth do you figure he won't use 80% of them?
I'm getting tired of this "Triumph is magical" argument, when the facts don't support it.
Here is a summary of the facts:
- The ONLY thing Triumph wished for was his old powers back, nothing more and nothing less. Except for better hair.
- Steel analyzes Triumph and says his powers are electromagnetic based, NOT magic.
- Steel designed a microwave gun to specifically counter Triumph's electromagnetic powers, and it worked! He walloped Triumph twice with it.
- When Superman fought Triumph he didn't show magic vulnerability like how he did when Captain Marvel two-pieced him, and magic was NEVER referenced.
- When LKZ and YZ merged, Triumph DIDN'T revert back to Billy Mac, his human form. This suggest YZ was not powering Triumph directly.
- Triumph describes his powers as electromagnetic, see his quotes:
example1: "I can feel Earth's magnetic poles again..."
example2: "I can see radio signals...and decode satellite transmissions"
example3: "I'll fry you with an E.M.P wave!"
- None of the characters who interacted with Triumph said his powers were magical. Triumph himself never said he was powered by magic.
- There is no statement or narration in the entire story arc that says Triumph was powered by magic. Zero! None! Zilch!
The evidence overwhelmingly suggest Triumph's powers were electromagnetic based, not magic based.
Superman also has freeze breath options. Norrin would be frozen for at least a few seconds, allowing Superman to get free hits.
Superman's freeze breath is strong enough to hold peers for moments.
Surfer never did nor thought about going intangible in all his comic fights. There was plenty of times he was getting crushed or held and couldn't break free right away. He simply didn't think of or tried to go intangible. I'm saying this for those arguing what Superman won't do.
Superman has hv options, to keep Norrin on the defensive and prevent nasty attacks by him. Superman's hv can penetrate his peers. And Superman's peers are just as resistant to heat as Surfer. Plus the hv is concussive as Pr pointed out.
Superman has punch options. Landing a few good blows will give him an enormous advantage in the fight. He's significantly stronger than Norrin.
So in character, Superman wins.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman also has freeze breath options. Norrin would be frozen for at least a few seconds, allowing Superman to get free hits.Superman's freeze breath is strong enough to hold peers for moments.
Surfer never did nor thought about going intangible in all his comic fights. There was plenty of times he was getting crushed or held and couldn't break free right away. He simply didn't think of or tried to go intangible. I'm saying this for those arguing what Superman won't do.So in character, Superman wins.
In other words: Superman wins because Silver Surfer will fight like someone with an IQ in the single digits. But seeing Superman defeat Surfer in a comic via freeze breath punch combo would be quite depressing. It would also show how dumb the writers are. Superman vs Surfer in a comic could potentially be a fight that lasts for multiple issues, and they could have them doing some crazy shit and no matter who wins it would be cool.
But you are probably correct they probably would pull some stupid crap like that in a comic.
Originally posted by Surturno sir.
In other words: Superman wins because Silver Surfer will fight like someone with an IQ in the single digits. But seeing Superman defeat Surfer in a comic via freeze breath punch combo would be quite depressing.
My argument is against Vince and blue. There are claiming that Superman won't use speed or counter attack against Surfer attempts to drain. Yet they have Surfer attempting to drain (which is far rare than Superman using speed and counters).
My opinion is that both characters fight to the best of their abilities AS SHOWN BEFORE. The key is: AS SHOWN BEFORE.
If Surfer has shown it in battle then it is in character and he has that option. Same goes for Superman. I only argue against Surfer's abilities if someone argues against Superman's abilities. I'm trying to get a fair debate. No double standards.
And I agree with you 100% that it would be a hard fight for either. Those saying Surfer wins easily are wrong.
Okay let me ask you this then. Just so I can be clear on where you stand in terms of actual power level as opposed to what these characters choose to do or not do.
These two characters.going all out, using every single power at their disposal intelligently...what happens? Again, I am not asking about what they do in a comic.
Originally posted by Surturit could go either way Tbh. One bad move for either could make the difference. I don't have a problem with Surfer winning. I actually love the character to death and would choose his powers over Superman's any day of the week. But realistically,
Okay let me ask you this then. Just so I can be clear on where you stand in terms of actual power level as opposed to what these characters choose to do or not do.These two characters.going all out, using every single power at their disposal intelligently...what happens? Again, I am not asking about what they do in a comic.
Superman's powers are simple and few. He has less choices to decide from in battle. All of his powers (the few of them) are very effective and can net him the win. Her also has shown slightly better combat speed and he is significantly stronger.
Surfer is more versatile. This isn't always a good thing. He has to think longer on which power to employ (unless he relies on blasting as usual). It's also not a good thing if it takes you longer to use the nasty exotic powers over simple fast ones (blasting and shields).
I say they are roughly equals in power and effectiveness against each other. Surfer has red radiation and Superman has his fists and hv (which is Surfer's weakness as well).
So if both fight intelligently I'll go with Superman over Surfer. Superman can snuff any exotic attack with hv or freeze breath. He has good chances to win if he lands a good punch. He can avoid blasts with speed and maneuvering.
Surfer can avoid attacks by maneuvering as well, and using shields. He can attempt to use red solar radiation. If it hits Superman it will weaken him slightly per second of exposure (depending on intensity). If Superman counters then he will regain his strength.