Originally posted by chithappens
Well everyone's heart is in the right place; same as there is not such thing as "bad" intention. People always find a way to justify things to self before doing them - more an emotional thing than reasoning.
Originally posted by backdoorman
Aha, so if I has said "all black people should be shot to death." you'd had said "his heart is in the right place" also?
Shrug, why wouldn't I? I speak of intention.
Hitler had a good intention. He massacred Jews because he thought it was good for his people. Intention.
Slavery is money but that sort of intention is more about incentive.
All I'm saying is, no bad intention exist. You do what you do but before you do it, somehow, you make it ok to self. We all do things we do not see as moral but morality is logic - emotions are what drive action. Emotion will defeat logic every time if they have to fight.
Originally posted by chithappens
Controlled social factors are not the same as pre-determined, innate genetics.
no its not. Remember that I am not trying to say that the genetic answer is correct, mainly just saying that there is no reason to outright claim that it is wrong, simply because it may be an uncomfortable truth. The fact that there are such racial differences, cultural or genetic, is a little unsettling imho. For that reason, to me, it is so important to study this kind of thing.
Originally posted by chithappens
That so called study you showed has issues because it [B] is bias from the beginning because not everyone learns the same thing, or from the same material, so it is impossible to determine anything about intelligence. Including Sub-Saharan blacks would automatically lower the intelligence score because it is inherently about what they think an intelligent person should know. And as I already said:It is impossible to determine and not even worth discussing. Intelligence can not be measured. Intelligence would have to include creativity and how would be determine that? A creative test? Get the hell out of here. [/B]
You are confusing a lot of terms and whatnot. An IQ test is not a measure of general cognitive ability. The way "Intelligence" is used in psychology is not the same as it is in regular society.
Whether an IQ test measures real intelligence or not is sort of moot however. It is correlated to success in work and school, is seen to be fairly heritable, and has neurological mechanisms. I would agree that an IQ test is not measuring someone's ability to think abstractly about philosophy, I think it measures more practice mind skills, lol, the more "hands on" mental skills.
To say whatever the IQ test measures "doesn't exist" is naive. It is not a measure of "smartness" or "worth", but it is a measure of something. As far as it being biased to give people (I am assuming of a different race) lower scores, you will need to show me some evidence that it is the test itself that is causing these scores, when the past decade at least has been devoted to removing all of these sorts of perceived biases. If you know one, people will change it.
It also doesn't answer why Asians would score higher than whites. One would assume if a white person were writing an IQ test, with the intent of showing races to be less intelligent, why wouldn't they change it to be biased against Asians.
Originally posted by inimalist
no its not. Remember that I am not trying to say that the genetic answer is correct, mainly just saying that there is no reason to outright claim that it is wrong, simply because it may be an uncomfortable truth. The fact that there are such racial differences, cultural or genetic, is a little unsettling imho. For that reason, to me, it is so important to study this kind of thing.You are confusing a lot of terms and whatnot. An IQ test is not a measure of general cognitive ability. The way "Intelligence" is used in psychology is not the same as it is in regular society.
Let me say that I know the way "intelligence" is used, but it is clear that other posters are not aware of that.
I'm not really unsettled by the differences among people because I do not feel they are race related. I do think that a lot is covered up and I find it very funny still that so much is unwilling to be discussed. In the U.S. it would be safe for one to assume that poor whites are not in abundance and Native Americans do not exist if one were to just simply take the media as their sole outlet. This sort of canon creates bias paradigms - FOTN being an example of this.
Originally posted by inimalistWhether an IQ test measures real intelligence or not is sort of moot however. It is correlated to success in work and school, is seen to be fairly heritable, and has neurological mechanisms. I would agree that an IQ test is not measuring someone's ability to think abstractly about philosophy, I think it measures more practice mind skills, lol, the more "hands on" mental skills.
To say whatever the IQ test measures "doesn't exist" is naive. It is not a measure of "smartness" or "worth", but it is a measure of something. As far as it being biased to give people (I am assuming of a different race) lower scores, you will need to show me some evidence that it is the test itself that is causing these scores, when the past decade at least has been devoted to removing all of these sorts of perceived biases. If you know one, people will change it.
It also doesn't answer why Asians would score higher than whites. One would assume if a white person were writing an IQ test, with the intent of showing races to be less intelligent, why wouldn't they change it to be biased against Asians.
Those intelligence measures can show how well one might do in school (actually, I'm in Ed Psyc class now and we just went over all of that for K-12 students).
As you said though, it is a measure of "something" but that is about as definite as "x" and you can not make claims based off of "x." You said yourself that there are biases and there are efforts to remove those biases so you know those test are not universally accurate at whatever "x" is.
I'm not saying the test are good for nothing at all. I would love to see what the research shows, but I do know that you can not make blanket statements off of "x." That's like trying to saying you understand how to come to product of a multiplication problem but you never really figured out how addition works.
Originally posted by chithappens
Let me say that I know the way "intelligence" is used, but it is clear that other posters are not aware of that.I'm not really unsettled by the differences among people because I do not feel they are race related. I do think that a lot is covered up and I find it very funny still that so much is unwilling to be discussed. In the U.S. it would be safe for one to assume that poor whites are not in abundance and Native Americans do not exist if one were to just simply take the media as their sole outlet. This sort of canon creates bias paradigms - FOTN being an example of this.
Those intelligence measures can show how well one might do in school (actually, I'm in Ed Psyc class now and we just went over all of that for K-12 students).
As you said though, it is a measure of "something" but that is about as definite as "x" and you can not make claims based off of "x." You said yourself that there are biases and there are efforts to remove those biases so you know those test are not universally accurate at whatever "x" is.
I'm not saying the test are good for nothing at all. I would love to see what the research shows, but I do know that you can not make blanket statements off of "x." That's like trying to saying you understand how to come to product of a multiplication problem but you never really figured out how addition works.
I agree with all of that 🙂
Originally posted by inimalist
FotN: So, if I understand you correctly, lets say I made an experiment that identified some genes related to IQ and showed that they are more common in people of one race than another, is that racist?What about the fact that the anatomy of Africans makes them naturally more suited for running or athleticism?
And I also don't understand, are you saying that the evidence that shows there is a racial gap in IQ is wrong? And further then, are you saying that the evidence that there is a racial gap, even when controlled for social factors, is just absolutely wrong?
That your experiment significantly involves race makes it racist, yes. According to dic.com racism is a belief that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement.
And I've already talked about my idea on physical African attributes. Their bodies have been suited to their environment in order to survive that land.
Showing evidence of a racial gap, is not wrong Showing the evidence over and over again every single time while giving off a hint psuedo-innocent mockery is wrong and racist. It's a smack in the face.
It's like saying "(even though we've cheated hard by forcefully attaining a meticulously large head start that contributed to the success we now bask in) racially our team won 1st place trophies every year for centuries while you're team's dumb cause 1.you're ranked lower. and 2 cause you don't have pink skin......losers.
Theres a lot of IQ test talk going on.
IQ test don´t give a total accurate insight into someones intelligence. Some people are good at one thing some good at others. You can even practice the IQ tests and you´ll get better.
for example, my son has a high IQ, but is lazy so gets normal results in the school (very frustrating)
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I'm not fcukin' nuts, you're fcukin' nuts. Ok.Prove to me that that quote doesn't hold water. Consider history, as well.
I don't have to prove anything to you. I'm not the one that made an asinine statement.
Moreover, I can't. You don't want anyone to "prove" anything to you. You want to hate white people. You seem to enjoy painting them, wholesale, as the enemy of the up-and-coming black youth in America. So, there's little I can say. Other than saying I don't consider black people to be less intellignet. But I can't speak for all white people, and neither can you.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
That your experiment significantly involves race makes it racist, yes.
His specific "experiment" aside, if the topic of research is race, an experiment would have to involve race. That's the whole point. That's not racism.
Originally posted by chithappens
In science, if I come up with a way to go back in time "just not perfectly" then I have not shown a way to go back in time.I fail to see your point.
That is an inaccurate comparison. You just compared apples to 9 fl. oz. of 2% milk mixed mixed with 2 tablespoons of Chocolate Nestle's Quik.
When a test is designed to make a measurement that gives a general diagnostic gage for determining learning disabilities and strengths in relative terms to an age group, absolute statements about their intelligence cannot be accurate.
You fail to see my point because you are not using relevant comparisons.
Originally posted by chithappens
Let me say that I know the way "intelligence" is used, but it is clear that other posters are not aware of that.I'm not really unsettled by the differences among people because I do not feel they are race related. I do think that a lot is covered up and I find it very funny still that so much is unwilling to be discussed. In the U.S. it would be safe for one to assume that poor whites are not in abundance and Native Americans do not exist if one were to just simply take the media as their sole outlet. This sort of canon creates bias paradigms - FOTN being an example of this.
I assume you are referring to me with the "other posters" statement.
I understand and have been appropriately referring to intelligence and IQ tests.
http://www.iq-tests.eu/iq-test-Overview-100.html
"IQ tests take their name because many IQ tests have been scaled based on the testers' assessment of the subject's relative cognitive abilities ("intelligence"😉 as compared to different age groups. IQ tests do not purport to measure intelligence the way a ruler measures height (absolutely), but rather the way a race measures speed (relatively); IQ is described as a "quotient" because, originally, it represented the ratio between a person's "mental age" and actual chronological age. Likewise, IQ tests are generally designed to meaningfully assess learning discrepancies and deficiencies in comparison to relatively homogenous cultural groups."
Originally posted by chithappens
Those intelligence measures can show how well one might do in school (actually, I'm in Ed Psyc class now and we just went over all of that for K-12 students).As you said though, it is a measure of "something" but that is about as definite as "x" and you can not make claims based off of "x." You said yourself that there are biases and there are efforts to remove those biases so you know those test are not universally accurate at whatever "x" is.
I'm not saying the test are good for nothing at all. I would love to see what the research shows, but I do know that you can not make blanket statements off of "x." That's like trying to saying you understand how to come to product of a multiplication problem but you never really figured out how addition works.
I also agree with the above statements. On the math comparison, do you mean it would be like saying you have figured out how addition works but you cannot figure our how multiplication works. (Multiplication is built of principles of addition.) Or am I missing your point?
Originally posted by chithappens
All I'm saying is, no bad intention exist. You do what you do but before you do it, somehow, you make it ok to self. We all do things we do not see as moral but morality is logic - emotions are what drive action. Emotion will defeat logic every time if they have to fight.
I disagree. I do commend you for your "outside the box" thinking.
I have intentionally done things to other people that I knew were bad things to do AND I did not justify it as okay in my head. I did them because they were bad and I wanted to do it. (And because I wanted to entertain myself. 😄)
Originally posted by Devil King
You want to hate white people. You seem to enjoy painting them, wholesale, as the enemy of the up-and-coming black youth in America. So, there's little I can say. Other than saying I don't consider black people to be less intellignet. But I can't speak for all white people, and neither can you.
I don't hate White people for the dozenth time squared. Why would I not like someone cause their skin is lighter than mine? How ignorant do you think I'm am. How stupid is that...Imagine me saying "Man, that's the coolest and nicest chick i've ever met, she so nice to me. But that her skin is light and I hate people with that skin tone, i hate her." I hate people with that tone of skin." Only a superficial person with no real substance and any brains would not like someone cause of skin tone and think like that.
And did i say "all" whites believe such a thing, no.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
You need a leg up your ass, forget a foot.Why does this smell like B.S. coming from you; a (white) person whom regularly and casually calls black people "dumb", "gorillas", "monkeys" "worthless" "stupid" and "n*ggers", or something derogatory across those lines. Suggesting Rosa Parks should've been arrested and federally prosecuted for not giving her seat up to a White man..
fcuk you and your quote.
Sorry, I don't listen to racists..so good day to you.
If MLK saw you today he would shoot YOU.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I don't hate White people for the dozenth time squared.
Nobody said you hate them, you're just racist towards them. Get help.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I don't hate White people for the dozenth time squared. Why would I not like someone cause their skin is lighter than mine? How ignorant do you think I'm am. How stupid is that...Imagine me saying "Man, that's the coolest and nicest chick i've ever met, she so nice to me. But that her skin is light and I hate people with that skin tone, i hate her." I hate people with that tone of skin." Only a superficial person with no real substance and any brains would not like someone cause of skin tone and think like that.And did i say "all" whites believe such a thing, no.
If that is what you truly believe, you are part of the solution and not the problem. Why does everyone here say you are a white hater and such? (I understand being pissed at white people for that incident with that white jerk on the bus...I think of it as similar to a white women being afraid of black men for a few years after getting raped by a black man...except you can and did get over that rather quickly.)
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Blacks people are the most overweight group in the country
Really? I would've guessed Hispanics.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
So wouldn't that make more of them buoyant and or better able to swim, hypothetically speaking.
😂
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
yea, cause that is what MLK was all about...
He was being sarcastic.