Baal VS Ganon

Originally posted by Burning thought
And yes if hes never shown any resistences then it means it would effect him..simple...otherwise i could pull out rubbish like just because kain has never been effected by Twilight magic he's not going to be affected by it..Kains soul rip can rip the souls out of basically anything, infact nothing escapes his soul rip unless one does not have a soul, he would stop time, then do this to stop ganon easily.

ahh i see Twilight magic, Kain can cast Repel, while its active he is near invincible and it reflects spells back on who casts them....Ganon if it werent for his triforce piece would become a spirirt, also why would kain be in the vicinity?

It isn't just that Ganondorf's invincible. The Triforce of Power makes him undefeatable, except for by the Master Sword. Kain cannot make the same assertion.

One can only assume that if the two are fighting, they will be within the vicinity of one another.

Kain clearly has displayed more abilities than Ganon, but that is due to the fact Ganon isn't a primary character.

not neccerily....kain has many long range attacks, combine that with time powers and ganon has no chances in a fight against kain, dont overrate ganon, from what ive heard he is very powerful but power can only go so far, kain has too many "nifty" abilities how V2D puts it

Ganondorf has long range attacks as well, and the ability to teleport. He can also spread the Twilight over a considerable range, and render Kain powerless.

The time stopping ability is a magic based attack as well, which Ganon can counter with his ability to reflect magic, or his magic-cancelling force fields.

If you don't know Ganon, you cannot judge whether or not I'm overrating him. I am simply providing sound counter-arguments, though I doubt this dicussion is getting anywhere.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Ganondorf has long range attacks as well, and the ability to teleport. He can also spread the Twilight over a considerable range, and render Kain powerless.

The time stopping ability is a magic based attack as well, which Ganon can counter with his ability to reflect magic, or his magic-cancelling force fields.

If you don't know Ganon, you cannot judge whether or not I'm overrating him. I am simply providing sound counter-arguments, though I doubt this dicussion is getting anywhere.

i wasnt saying he doesnt have long range, you misunderstood it seems, i was just stating it doesnt have to be in the vicinity of eachother, Kain can also teleport, and you say considerable range? what range? how fast is the attack, you need to prove its speed, if its longer time than thought speed then Ganon loses, also your forgetting, kain also has reflect on magic, so no it wont render him powerless.

That depends, the effect itself controls time, its a time based attack, just because magic opperates and starts the attack doesnt mean Ganon can reflect it, only Kains own freeze enemy attack is a actualy possibly reflectable, the reavers however is not that type of attack, Once again, When does ganon reflect magic instantly, has he ever reflected a AOE attack (area of effect, because from the videso ive been shown he gets covered in them)

Ganons mind will be lost due to Kains incredible mind powers, like mind control

Originally posted by Burning thought
i wasnt saying he doesnt have long range, you misunderstood it seems, i was just stating it doesnt have to be in the vicinity of eachother, Kain can also teleport, and you say considerable range? what range? how fast is the attack, you need to prove its speed, if its longer time than thought speed then Ganon loses, also your forgetting, kain also has reflect on magic, so no it wont render him powerless.

That depends, the effect itself controls time, its a time based attack, just because magic opperates and starts the attack doesnt mean Ganon can reflect it, only Kains own freeze enemy attack is a actualy possibly reflectable, the reavers however is not that type of attack, Once again, When does ganon reflect magic instantly, has he ever reflected a AOE attack (area of effect, because from the videso ive been shown he gets covered in them)

Ganons mind will be lost due to Kains incredible mind powers, like mind control

The attack banishes light from the area, substituting it with Twilight. Appropriately, it moves at light speed. Kain won't be able to reflect it's magic, because he will be powerless. The power of the Goddesses is the only thing that can protect someone from the Twilight.

Ganon can create a field of magic that cancels the effect of the attack.

What video are you speaking of?

Ganon can use mind control as well, negating that.

I just thought that you should know, existing as a spirit is something Ganon does regularly, and in actuality, the lack of a body allows him to use the Triforce of Power more efficiently.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
We aren't getting anywhere.

The attack banishes light from the area, substituting it with Twilight. Appropriately, it moves at light speed. Kain won't be able to reflect it's magic, because he will be powerless. The power of the Goddesses is the only thing that can protect someone from the Twilight.

Ganon can create a field of magic that cancels the effect of the attack.

What video are you speaking of?

Ganon can use mind control as well, negating that.

I just thought that you should know, existing as a spirit is something Ganon does regularly, and in actuality, the lack of a body allows him to use the Trifoce of Power more efficiently.

no were not

where does it say it moves at light speed, and this is irrelevent, i asked how fast Ganon himself can cast the spell...kain will be shielded, the effect will not even effect him...not that he wont instantly teleport out of range anyway or already be at long range.

can you show me this canceling field? that cancels all powers...

the one where Link attacks and ganon slaps him away and they save link and the big dragon blasts him with fire.

Since when does Ganon having mind powers protect his own mind, unless you can show me when he has protected his mind before from said powers....Kain has actually protected his mind from mind powers.

thats the problem, excisting as a spirit will mean he will go into the Reaver, imprisoning him..

Originally posted by Burning thought
no were not

where does it say it moves at light speed, and this is irrelevent, i asked how fast Ganon himself can cast the spell...kain will be shielded, the effect will not even effect him...not that he wont instantly teleport out of range anyway or already be at long range.

can you show me this canceling field? that cancels all powers...

the one where Link attacks and ganon slaps him away and they save link and the big dragon blasts him with fire.

Since when does Ganon having mind powers protect his own mind, unless you can show me when he has protected his mind before from said powers....Kain has actually protected his mind from mind powers.

thats the problem, excisting as a spirit will mean he will go into the Reaver, imprisoning him..

Ganon encircles Link with one during the final boss battle of TP. He outs Zelda in one in OT. He put the entire Hyrule Castle in one in TP.

Uhh, what game is this video from? I've played every Zelda game produced, and I cannot recall anything remotely close to what you've mentioned.

Zelda has very powerful telepathy. She is unable to invade his mind.

Using his spirit form, Ganon could take over Kain's body.

Ganon's spirit isn't just a spirit. It's pure power. The essence of Din.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The same way that light moves at lightspeed, the absence thereof does as well. There is simply a flash, and the Twilight ensues. The twilight covers an indefinite range. Kain won't know where it is or isn't. The Twilight affects anyone who doesn't have the protection of the Goddesses. Unless Kain has divine power, he will be affected.

Ganon encircles Link with one during the final boss battle of TP. He outs Zelda in one in OT. He put the entire Hyrule Castle in one in TP.

Uhh, what game is this video from? I've played every Zelda game produced, and I cannot recall anything remotely close to what you've mentioned.

Zelda has very powerful telepathy. She is unable to invade his mind.

Using his spirit form, Ganon could take over Kain's body.

Ganon's spirit isn't just a spirit. It's pure power. The essence of Din.

the absence of light moves at lightspeed....false...only light is said to move at lightspeed. If theres a flash thats more than enough time to freeze time before Ganon can do it, kain has his own protection in the form of shields, he would just have to mist to escape 😉 its not going to effect a mist cloud.

i dont know the game, V2D posted it

has she ever tried and failed? show me please...

take over games body with what?, Kain can teleport, warp reality and dimension, how is Ganon going to possess Kain, not to menstion as soon as he gets near kain, sucked into the reaver..owned..

A shadow is formed as quickly as light becomes absent. True, not that it really matters. He won't be freezing Ganon, because it will be reflected, and even if he could, he couldn't affect Ganon thereafter. If the mist has a soul, it will be affected. 😉

That video sounds like BS. 😉

Not that it would have any bearing on the outcome.

Ganon can do all of those things and more. The reaver is not going to affect Ganon's spirit form. Ganon would likely destroy the Soul Reaver.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
A shadow is formed as quickly as light becomes absent. True, not that it really matters. He won't be freezing Ganon, because it will be reflected, and even if he could, he couldn't affect Ganon thereafter. If the mist has a soul, it will be affected. 😉

That video sounds like BS. 😉

Not that it would have any bearing on the outcome.

Ganon can do all of those things and more. The reaver is not going to affect Ganon's spirit form. Ganon would likely destroy the Soul Reaver.

lmfao.....destroy the soul reaver? theres no point in debating this, you seem to have zero if any knowledge on Kain or the reaver, i even seem to lack greater knowledge on Ganon in comparison to yours on Kain, destroy the soul reaver indeed 🙄

Do you mean to imply that the Soul Reaver cannot be destroyed, or that it's power is irresistable? Before you reply, understand that I know both of implications to be false.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Do you mean to imply that the Soul Reaver cannot be destroyed, or that it's power is irresistable? Before you reply, understand that I know both of implications to be false.

the only thing that can destroy the soul reaver sword is a paradox of time where two of the same sword is present.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you do...do you...according to what? the only beings that can resist the soul reavers power, are those who wear the nexus stone of which there is only one

the only thing that can destroy the soul reaver sword is a paradox of time where two of the same sword is present.

Besides, Kain has other weaknesses that can be exploited.

Kain cannot exploit Ganon's weakness.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The fact of the matter is that the Reaver's soul absorbing power isn't absolute, and that it can be overcome by magic. The reaver can be destroyed by it's own soul, and using his reality manipulating power, Ganon could do just that.

Besides, Kain has other weaknesses that can be exploited.

Kain cannot exploit Ganon's weakness.

isnt absolute? when?....it absorbs every soul it tries to absorb apart from Raziels due to a time paradox. Ganon...reality manip to that extent? when?

what other weaknesses, he has barely any...

Kain can...one mind spark..thats all it takes and Ganon is drooling on the floor, or soul rip

Originally posted by Burning thought
isnt absolute? when?....it absorbs every soul it tries to absorb apart from Raziels due to a time paradox. Ganon...reality manip to that extent? when?

what other weaknesses, he has barely any...

Kain can...one mind spark..thats all it takes and Ganon is drooling on the floor, or soul rip

Regardless, using the Triforce of Power, Ganon's spirit is protected by the Goddess of Power, who is omnipotent. The Soul Reaver isn't overcoming the essence of Din.

Ganon has created a duplicate of Link using his soul. Creating a duplicate of himself using his own soul is just as easy.

What part of invulnerability don't you comprehend? A mind spark isn't doing anything to him, because even if he didn't reflect it, rebounding the effect of Kain, it wouldn't affect him.

Kain is vulnerable to water for cying out loud.

Okay...I've gotta admit, some of the stuff you are saying CC, even I haven't heard before. Also, the vid that BT is talkin about is the one from WW when Valoo breathed fire on him and his fortress.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If it can be overcome, it isn't absolute. It absorbed Razeil when he stopped fighting it.

Regardless, using the Triforce of Power, Ganon's spirit is protected by the Goddess of Power, who is omnipotent. The Soul Reaver isn't overcoming the essence of Din.

Ganon has created a duplicate of Link using his soul. Creating a duplicate of himself using his own soul is just as easy.

What part of invulnerability don't you comprehend? A mind spark isn't doing anything to him, because even if he didn't reflect it, rebounding the effect of Kain, it wouldn't affect him.

Kain is vulnerable to water for cying out loud.

overcome? theres nothing Raziel could do, it was absorbing his soul, theres notihng he can do to stop it, only kain could stop it by pulling it out but once its in your doomed, since Ganon would be a soul, hed be more than doomed.

false...prove this that he is protected by an omnipotent goddess and that she can protect him, like V2D says, it seems you making some of this up as your going along, so prove it.

invulerability can mean indestructable...thats all it means...his body, nothing to suggest his brain cannot be messed up at all, also it is not true magic, its a mind power...also Kain could just use his TK to move ganon about.

Kain is vulerable? to what extent, do you realise Raziel burned for nearly 10,000 years and only died and became what he is now after all that time, i dont think Nosgothic vampires are much more vulerable to water than anything else if it takes thousands of years to deal much damage at all, and this isnt Raizel, its kain who can escape almost anything a being can throw at him.

Ganon is protected by the power of Din, that is true.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Okay...I've gotta admit, some of the stuff you are saying CC, even I haven't heard before. Also, the vid that BT is talkin about is the one from WW when Valoo breathed fire on him and his fortress.

Simply because you might not be aware of things that I am bringing up doesn't mean I am making them up. Everything I said can be supported in gameplay.

Originally posted by Burning thought
overcome? theres nothing Raziel could do, it was absorbing his soul, theres notihng he can do to stop it, only kain could stop it by pulling it out but once its in your doomed, since Ganon would be a soul, hed be more than doomed.

false...prove this that he is protected by an omnipotent goddess and that she can protect him, like V2D says, it seems you making some of this up as your going along, so prove it.

invulerability can mean indestructable...thats all it means...his body, nothing to suggest his brain cannot be messed up at all, also it is not true magic, its a mind power...also Kain could just use his TK to move ganon about.

Kain is vulerable? to what extent, do you realise Raziel burned for nearly 10,000 years and only died and became what he is now after all that time, i dont think Nosgothic vampires are much more vulerable to water than anything else if it takes thousands of years to deal much damage at all, and this isnt Raizel, its kain who can escape almost anything a being can throw at him.

I haven't made up anything. Ganon's soul is protected by Din; that is why he isn't affected by Twilight.

Sigh... the Triforce of Power makes him undefeatable. Not just invulnerable. Unless Kain has a way to exploit his evil nature, he's doing nothing.

My point is, Kain has weaknesses (plural). Ganondorf has a weakness (singular). Evil destroying swords. Since Kain doesn't have one, he's doing nothing.

undefeatable my arse 🙄
link has defeated him too many times for that claim to be true..
heres some facts -
1. kain only has one real weakness, and raziel survived 10000 years of it..raziel at the time was merely a weak vampire, whereas kain is the vampire's messiah, the scion of balance..
2. the blood reaver (the weakest form of the soul reaver) was built to destroy the evil hylden..the fully powered soul reaver is the ultimate weapon of balance, meaning that it is also a weapon created to destroy evil such as the elder god (the biggest source of evil in the game)
soul reaver = evil destroying sword..
gannon/dorf - can only be destroyed be swords than can destroy evil...your words, not mine..
time stop + reaver blast/stab = dead gannon 😬