He was turned to stone, which isn't much different (not that his return to power wasn't implied). And in Twilight Princess, the Triforce of Power abandoned him (or maybe just cancelled out due to the Master Sword sticking through his chest and the whole evil-repel jazz taking effect), at which point he (for the time) apparently died (physically at least).
Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06Yeah, it is, it was another form of sealing him, which is all that ever happens to him. It was not implied in the slightest that the Triforce of Power returned to him.
He was turned to stone, which isn't much different (not that his return to power wasn't implied). And in Twilight Princess, the Triforce of Power abandoned him (or maybe just cancelled out due to the Master Sword sticking through his chest and the whole evil-repel jazz taking effect), at which point he (for the time) apparently died (physically at least).
In TP, it did not abandon him, we see a vision of Zant snapping his own neck, Zant was Ganon's link to the physical realm, after this, Ganon simply could not exist in his physical body any longer.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Magic? Baal in Diablo 2's magic was severely unimpressive. Baal can slow down some soldiers with ice. Ganon can freeze over a whole village. Ganon summons more powerful and larger monsters. Stun Ganon? He can't stun a Barbarian or an Amazon, let alone Ganon. Ganon just runs towards him and takes his head off. Hell, Ganon without the Triforce of Power is effectively immortal, in WW he was stabbed in the head, but did not die.
Originally posted by MadMel1. Most of his feats are in gameplay. In cinematics, he had like...3 spells?
1. your comparing baals [b]gameplay feats to ganons non - gameplay feats??
to use cinematic feats, baal:
- exploded a man without effort
- stunned the same man simply by shouting (the echoes of his voice could be heard about 15-20 sceonds after he closed his mouth)..again, no effort was required
- a weak diablo burned down a village. baal > daiblo in magic.
- burnt down a prison by simply being there, this was before he emerged, meaning he was much weaker than he could have been.
2. can you prove that ganon's summoned monsters are more powerful than baal's minions of destruction?
3. ganon's immunity is turned off, according to the thread starter, so the whole triforce/master sword stuff doesnt apply here.. [/B]
a. A normal Barbarian old man with no indication of power. Oh, and the attack was SLOW.
b. Once again, just some weak punk who isn't even named. Oh, and he just yelled really loud. Yet that is somehow a feat that will allow him to take Ganon. Do you use effort when shouting?
c. Excuse me? Diablo was the strongest of the Three. And burning down a village, is not hard. Ganon froze a city over, and the monster Bongo Bongo burned Kakariko village, Ganon>>>him, he destroyed his castle while near death, and destroyed an entire island.
d. He burnt it down by walking through, not a combat feat, and that weak fire won't even make Ganon sweat.
2. They are larger for one, and generally cause more destruction(I am talking about boss level ones)? Oh, and Ganon's minion reserves is unlimited, he makes them, Baal's is not.
3. I know, without the immunity from the Triforce, he is still immortal, stabbing his head did not kill him, and the Light Arrows and Master Sword took several hits to seal him. Ganon in durability>>>Baal.
1: In cinematics he may not do many different spells, but he does IMPRESSIVE spells.
a: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat. And do note that Baal did it without ANY EFFORT! Imagine if he decided to put an effort into things. Besides, the attack was HOMING! Slow or not, it would certainly not miss.
b: Again: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat.
c: Excuse me? Do you know what you are talking about? 😂 Baal > Diablo in magic and destruction. Diablo > Baal in authority and strength.
2: Again you appear clueless to your counter-part.. So, all of a sudden Size > Strength? Well, in that case Baal wins this versus anyway.. And care to show me one of these minions? A video perhaps? Because I doubt they are far beyond the minions of destruction (Which Baal fyi brings from the pits of Hell. They may not be unlimited, but I doubt Ganon can summon a billion with the snap of a finger or something)
3: A stabb by a sword may not have killed him, but Baal doesnt fight with sword. No, he's a bit more artistic than that. Perhaps he will turn Ganon inside out, by bursting him like a baloon, or maybe he will throw him around with TK and shockwaves before physically overpowering him with magically enhanced bodymass. He might even let Ganon hit him a few times to grant him a glimpse of hope.
Originally posted by Nozdormu1. Popping some no-name weak guard, starting a fire...yep, that's about it.
1: In cinematics he may not do many different spells, but he does IMPRESSIVE spells.a: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat. And do note that Baal did it without ANY EFFORT! Imagine if he decided to put an effort into things. Besides, the attack was HOMING! Slow or not, it would certainly not miss.
b: Again: Ah yes, because the ancient ones would definatly let a weakling guard the gates of Mount Arreat.
c: Excuse me? Do you know what you are talking about? 😂 Baal > Diablo in magic and destruction. Diablo > Baal in authority and strength.2: Again you appear clueless to your counter-part.. So, all of a sudden Size > Strength? Well, in that case Baal wins this versus anyway.. And care to show me one of these minions? A video perhaps? Because I doubt they are far beyond the minions of destruction (Which Baal fyi brings from the pits of Hell. They may not be unlimited, but I doubt Ganon can summon a billion with the snap of a finger or something)
3: A stabb by a sword may not have killed him, but Baal doesnt fight with sword. No, he's a bit more artistic than that. Perhaps he will turn Ganon inside out, by bursting him like a baloon, or maybe he will throw him around with TK and shockwaves before physically overpowering him with magically enhanced bodymass. He might even let Ganon hit him a few times to grant him a glimpse of hope.
a. Speculation, prove his strength, all of those guys in Mount Arreat weren't very strong either, you can't prove either. Any effort? Ganondorf destroyed his entire castle near death. Destroying castle near death>>popping weak Barb effortlessly. Homing? No it wasn't, he just had the attack wrap around him, Ganon is not as slow as some 100 year old Barb, he would jump over it.
b. Speculation.
c. So Baal>Diablo in magic? I was not aware of that.
2. You appear to know nothing on Ganon if you assume he will be as easily killed as a no-name Barb. Size and strength belong to Ganon's stronger minions. Morpha was a giant creature composed of water with its only weak point being accessable if you had some way of stretching your arms or a weapon that can do that to pull it towards you. Gohma in WW could lift large stone and lived in magma. The Helmaroc King is a gigantic flying bird which only weak point is head, which is armored. That's just a few that I can remember. Ganon also has Phantom Ganon(he has many of those he has made) and can summon Puppet Ganon as well.
3. A stab through his brain with an evil destroying blade, a blade that he is naturally weak against. Even without the Triforce, he didn't die from it. Maybe Ganon will just crush Baal under tons of rock, chop his head off using far superior speed, turn him into a harmless soul, freeze him solid, or better yet, use his superior strength to manhandle him.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Popping some no-name weak guard, starting a fire...yep, that's about it.
Is that what you're suggesting? It's ridiculous logic.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Homing? No it wasn't, he just had the attack wrap around him, Ganon is not as slow as some 100 year old Barb, he would jump over it.
Baal is clearly an extremely skilled wielder of magic, so it wouldn't take much effort to make energies seek out someone in particular. Gameplay mechanics are far too limiting. For example, in the novels necromancers were not only able to do their conventional in-game spells but also do things like teleport wherever they wished it, and manipulate the energies from a Corpse Explosion to go ahead and home in on someone (Moon of the Spider novel).
If a necromancer can do that lore wise then the Lord of Destruction sure as hell can.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
b. Speculation.
The spirits of the Nephalum (the Barbarian spirit guardians at the summit) were the actual ones who were entasked to protecting Mount Arreat and the Worldstone. Baal didn't face them, he found a way to bypass them.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
c. So Baal>Diablo in magic? I was not aware of that.
Baal is the Lord of Destruction.
You see my point?
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Maybe Ganon will just crush Baal under tons of rock, chop his head off using far superior speed, turn him into a harmless soul, freeze him solid, or better yet, use his superior strength to manhandle him.
And Baal's soul can't be touched by exterior forces when it's contained in his Soulstone, and as long as he is alive his enchantments on it protect it. Nice try though.
Plus, Baal can make two of himself.
Originally posted by DarkC1. Okay, I will bite, what has he done lore-wise?
And does the lack of cinematic demonstration of Baal's skills constitute any weakness or lack of ability in him, lore-wise?Is that what you're suggesting? It's ridiculous logic.
Yes, because I'm sure that if Baal wanted to give his victims any chance chance to live he wouldn't have used a homing magical attack....it was clear he wanted to kill. What a silly notion.
Baal is clearly an extremely skilled wielder of magic, so it wouldn't take much effort to make energies seek out someone in particular. Gameplay mechanics are far too limiting. For example, in the novels necromancers were not only able to do their conventional in-game spells but also do things like teleport wherever they wished it, and manipulate the energies from a Corpse Explosion to go ahead and home in on someone (Moon of the Spider novel).
If a necromancer can do that lore wise then the Lord of Destruction sure as hell can.
No. Common sense. And Nozdormu is correct, at least in some regard.
The spirits of the Nephalum (the Barbarian spirit guardians at the summit) were the actual ones who were entasked to protecting Mount Arreat and the Worldstone. Baal didn't face them, he found a way to bypass them.
Diablo is the Lord of Evil. He is supposed to make people do evil things, not kill. He's technically strongest out of the three physically.
Baal is the Lord of Destruction.
You see my point?
Speed and strength matters not to Baal, who can just use magic to counter. If Ganon attempts to crush Baal with rock, Baal teleports.
And Baal's soul can't be touched by exterior forces when it's contained in his Soulstone, and as long as he is alive his enchantments on it protect it. Nice try though.
Plus, Baal can make two of himself.
And no one better say he and the other Prime's were like the Devil as an argument.
a. Okay, so it is homing, but homing=/=un-dodgable. And it was definately slow. Ganon is faster than the Barb, or even Baal for that matter, he can dodge it, and he can become intangible or teleport as well.
b. No, speculation. He was an old man, whose only feat was being popped like a grape. and I should assume he was some uber Barb?
And that's relevant...how? He was not one of those guards, those guards are clearly more powerful.
c. Diablo is Lord of Terror is he not? So he is more of a mind manipulator using magic, and Baal uses his for offense mostly? Alright, that's all I needed to know.
2. Speed and strength matter not? Baal's spells do not appear to be instant, speed will matter, and strength will matter when Ganon brings down whatever they are fighting in down, as Ganon is strong enough to break out of tons of rock, Baal has never done so that I remember. That is assuming they are fighting in an enclosed space however, he never specified where the battle takes place.
I am not saying he would touch his soul, in a way he would be releasing it.
And Ganondorf possesses more raw power, speed, strength, skill, and durability.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Okay, I will bite, what has he done lore-wise?
However, his soul when vanquished was far too strong to be contained or destroyed, and only one of the most accomplished sorcerers of all time, Tal Rasha, had a will strong enough to contain Baal's soul so he let his buddies chain him up, jam the Soulstone into his chest and lock him up for eternity.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And no one better say he and the other Prime's were like the Devil as an argument.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
. Okay, so it is homing, but homing=/=un-dodgable. And it was definately slow. Ganon is faster than the Barb, or even Baal for that matter, he can dodge it, and he can become intangible or teleport as well.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
b. No, speculation. He was an old man, whose only feat was being popped like a grape. and I should assume he was some uber Barb?And that's relevant...how? He was not one of those guards, those guards are clearly more powerful.
The old man was not one of them, I think he was the ruler of Harrogath.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Speed and strength matter not? Baal's spells do not appear to be instant, speed will matter, and strength will matter when Ganon brings down whatever they are fighting in down, as Ganon is strong enough to break out of tons of rock Baal has never done so that I remember. That is assuming they are fighting in an enclosed space however, he never specified where the battle takes place.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I am not saying he would touch his soul, in a way he would be releasing it.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And Ganondorf possesses more raw power, speed, strength, skill, and durability.
Barbarians being able to take down a Prime Evil solely by martial skill and not magic in-game is PIS, as was shown in the Kingdom of Shadow novel.
Here's Diamond Kisses video on Baal.. As you can see, ALL his abilities are instant.. Also keep in mind that it is a weakened version of Baal, since it is gameplay..
Also, it's seen in the game that Baal has the ability to fight the opposition from far distance, since he throwed curses and attacks on the enemies far before they even reached the throneroom..