Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus could not write, at least that is how it looks. Because nothing he wrote has survived.
Shaky....there is a passage in the new testament in which it says that prior to Magdalane getting stone. Jesus wrote something in the sands. He knew how to write.
Remenber that sometimes written records of a person aren't alway necessary to prove his/her existance. Take Socrates for example. All we know of him came from Plato and Aristotle.
Originally posted by Nellinator
-Luke 12:51-53
No, I'm trying to find justification, in the "words" of Jesus, that condone murder and war.
Verses 51-53 seem, to me, to be addressing standing up for your faith against all odds or detractors. But I see nothing about murder or starting war, much less the notion of superiority of that faith being a viable reason to commit murder or instigate war for profit.
Edit: I can't imagine Jesus being able/unable to write is at all relevant.
Originally posted by Nellinator
So He could read really well and memorize the entire Torah (at minimum), but not write? Seems doubtful.
Sorry for getting off topic, but reading and writing are two different things. Most educated people, of the time when Jesus was alive, could read, but they could not write. Writing was reserved for scribes. Writing is far more difficult then reading, or even speaking or reading multiple languages.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonUmm.. Rabbi's could all read and write both Hebrew and Greek at a minimum. Jesus quoted mostly from the Septuagint indicating his knowledge of Greek and also from the Masocretic texts showing knowledge of Hebrew. Reading at that level is always hand-in-hand with writing. In current lower grade education the way we teach kids to read is by getting them to write. They are nearly inseparable.
Sorry for getting off topic, but reading and writing are two different things. Most educated people, of the time when Jesus was alive, could read, but they could not write. Writing was reserved for scribes. Writing is far more difficult then reading, or even speaking or reading multiple languages.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Matthew 10:34-36.
Everything I've read about this is that it speaks towards expecting persecution, but that if one gives into the temptaion that persecution brings, they won't get into heaven.
One site said this:
The disciples of Christ must think more how to do well,than how to speak well.
But I haven't seen anything that states that Jesus called people to commit murder and start wars.
Originally posted by Devil King
That's a question for Feceman. He's the one that stated the verse was meant to imply that Jesus supported war and murder.
I don't agree with the interpretations that you say that you've read--bringing a sword certainly seems warlike to me. Furthermore, I'm not saying that Christ said that we ought to start wars--even God does not like killing; in Ezekiel 18:21-23, God says, "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"--but I am saying that Christ would support armed conflict.
And, no, Christ would not support murder--"murder" not being equivalent to "killing"--although he would support justice.
"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live... But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die."
Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm.. Rabbi's could all read and write both Hebrew and Greek at a minimum. Jesus quoted mostly from the Septuagint indicating his knowledge of Greek and also from the Masocretic texts showing knowledge of Hebrew. Reading at that level is always hand-in-hand with writing. In current lower grade education the way we teach kids to read is by getting them to write. They are nearly inseparable.
There is one problem with what you are saying; then why were there scribes?
Also, were are all the writing of Jesus? If Jesus was god, then he would have been able to write, and would have written things down. After all, god wrote the ten commandments. Why did Jesus not written anything other then a few words in the dirt?
Originally posted by Nellinator
Because the process of writing was meticulous and had/has a long Rabbinical tradition.I wouldn't be surprised if He wrote more. And it's likely that He didn't have time to write much, just like His disciples, Jesus was constantly moving and doing.
Or he did not have the money for scrolls, or he just wasn't a scribe.
zeal, war = mass murder. the acts of war are not justified , simply because "its war". armed comflict is a great evil.
oh, n this discussion is useless. the bible is a selective compliation of gospels made by constantine and the like , which only chose the books which were in accodance with their beleifs{paul included} and discarded every other record as heresay. furthermore, most of it isnt even the words or teachings of christ. a very small percentage, {the red letter bible} even has a CHANCE {assuming the author didnt make it up or misquote it} of being the authentic word of the man, yeshua. and ironically, it doesnt say much at all about christianity's most orthodoxed beleifs like trinity, or jesus being the son of god, or redemption through his soul dying for their sins or the rapture etc etc. so i dont think u guys will get anywhere with this.
its all down to faith.