Darth Bane vs. AOTC Obi-Wan and Anakin

Apparently you didn't quite understand what I was saying, otherwise you wouldn't have asked me to prove it, given it's directly stated in canon.

Bane, being the Sith'ari, was prophesied at doing what Palpatine triggered into happening. As far as destinies go, Bane's was the one that was considered special, as as far as prophesies went, Bane was the one credited with what Palpatine "achieved."

You've yet to prove that Bane is the Sith'ari and that Bane assisted Palpatine in his galactic conquest. So this is completely irrelevant until such a time you choose to prove it.

Relying on these quotes, and turning this debate into arguing whether Sidious was the most intelligent, or greatest, quite clearly underlies the fact that you know that Sidious is severely lacking in showings of power, and you have no case whatsoever in arguing his personal level of power.

Incorrect. I'm managing to prove that Palpatine was all three. The strongest. The smartest. The greatest. You've failed to prove Bane's any of the three.

Now, I really though you'd learnt from your mistakes, but apparently not. You really need to realise, Gideon, that there's not one quote that you can provide that I can't prove worthless, and every time it happens, I'm sure more people will slowly be seeing the errors in their irrational belief of Sidious being the #1 Sith McDaddy.

Prove worthless? Proof seems to be a concept that eludes you. Now, if proof could be directed based off of double standards, deceit, and your constant use of the ambiguity card, you'd come considerably closer to accomplishing your own goals. As it happens to be, however, canon supports me. Not you.

"Powerful enough to return them from hiding"

Now, Gideon, please tell me, what was the power in which Sidious wielded that returned the Sith from hiding? I'll answer for you, it was his manipulative ability, essentially the power of his brain. Now if power, in this sense, were to be referring to personal combat power, than Sidious would have had to have used his personal power to return the Sith from hiding, rather than his brain, given the context, which clearly doesn't make sense.

Or that Sidious possessed the power and skill required to remain hidden from the Jedi (which he did) and the intelligence and resources used to manipulate them (which he did) into handing him power over the dark side.

No, I mean "lacking in logic in the sense that you can't differentiate between someone receiving all of the credit for a particular accomplishment, and part of the credit."

Because I don't subscribe to the idea (bound in perpetual stupidity) that Bane deserves credit for Sidious's accomplishments? Lol.

LMAO, self ownage is a wonderful look for you.

It's a fashion you've made quite popular with your first dozen accounts.

Yes, Kreia is blind... meaning she would always look through the eyes of the force. That's essentially what Kreia did, she viewed her regular vision as a distraction when she had had it.

Kreia's not "seeing through the eyes of the Force" but "using the Force to assist her vision". There's a difference.

And no, that doesn't change the fact that the quote is a metaphor. Palpatine was clearly a very evil person, even for Sith standards, and the "darkness beyond darkness" makes it clear that in the context of the quote, it's his evil nature, and the darkness within Sidious that is being spoken of.

The constant repetition of "clearly" this and "clearly" that has yet to prove your argument. Prove it was a metaphor.

Originally posted by Ultra OmegaYes, and it took him decades to do so. Patience was a virtue that Bane possessed, but he didn't need it in his case.

Another example of double standards. Do you actually believe that people will believe this? Palpatine conquered the galaxy. Bane? He murdered a few hundred cowardly, weak Sith Lords.

The number is irrelevant. He displays the same kind of intelligence with his manipulations, where he's able to orchestrate Kaan into destroying the entire BoD.

The number is irrelevant? I lol'd. The number is highly relevant when compared to the scope of Bane's goals and achievements and those of Sidious's. Bane displays high intellect manipulating one man. Palpatine demonstrates a suitably stronger level of patience and mental prowess by conquering two separate governments and ascending to direct power over the institution of his most hated foes.

1. As usual, you're wrong. Mace Windu, in the TPM novelisation, speaks of the Sith being extinct ever since Darth Bane had passed, meaning he would have come into contact with the Jedi.

Prove that it was him and not one of his lineage.

2. He set up an organisation of Sith that would remain in hiding, an organisation that used that time of hiding to gather Sith knowledge and Sith philosophies for a thousand years to ensure that they would eventually be able to wipe out the Jedi, at their most complacent moment. Bane fully understood the significance behind waiting until the Jedi finally believed the Sith had been gone for good, and then striking at them.

Bane understood that he could not accomplish his goals. His implementation of the Rule of Two (an idea clearly belonging to Revan), does not put him on par with Sidious.

Substantiate the intelligence required to do what Sidious did.

He conquered a galaxy. He manipulated and destroyed two galactic-spanning factions locked in warfare. He dissolved the Jedi Order. He instituted the strongest military regime in galactic history. Palpatine's goals were much more complex and difficult than Bane's murder of a hundred cowardly, weak Sith Lords.

You're ignoring two key details:

1. Sidious had a millennium's worth of gathered knowledge and wisdom of the Sith.

Irrelevant. Bane had similar knowledge from Revan and Sith histories. It puts them on par. The difference is, we can definately credit Revan for Bane's tactics and plans. PoD proves it.

2. It took him decades to do what he did.

Bane, with little help, had a goal, set out to do it, and it took him less than a year, and he did it perfectly.

Terrible logic. Palpatine's goal was on a galactic scope. Bane's? Hardly in comparison. My goal? To finish this argument. So, when I accomplish an lesser goal in a shorter amount of time than Bane -- I am automatically greater than him? 😆

Accomplishments alone are not indicative of intelligence. Accomplishments, and the circumstances around them are, which is something you don't appear to get.

Both the circumstances and accomplishments of Palpatine's reign were directly created by him.

I'll also take note that you ignored Bane's vast learning rate, which is clearly indicative of phenomenal intelligence.

No one said he's stupid, Nebaris. Get your head out of his ass. And you dare accuse me of bias, rofl. I'm simply proving Palpatine was smarter and better.

"People" like to pretend. Sexy, for instance, who you bring up, claims to find me boring, and not worth his time, yet he can't keep himself from trying to have conversations with me. He would appear obsessed in fact.

Obsessed with stamping out what he sees as idiocy.

Well there lies the flaw in your point. Sidious didn't do all of the work. He had help, in the form of a millennium's worth of accumulated wisdom and knowledge. He also required others to fulfill certain parts of his task. He didn't do all of the work, and he doesn't deserve all of the credit. You arguing that cements this weird obsession you've appeared to have with an old man.

Palpatine's plans were all his. The resources he accumulated through use of pawns and scheming. The credit ultimately goes to him.

Galactic conquest wasn't Bane's immediate goal, meaning this comparison is silly, and Vader and Dooku simply followed their Masters instructions. Maul did... what, btw?

Maul, Vader, and Dooku came closer to achieving the galactic seat of power than Bane ever did. And as I said before, if I succeed in accomplishing an inferior goal in lesser time, I'm better than Bane or Sidious if we use your logic.

LMAO. You do realise that, in your comparison, Einstein's role was parallel to Bane's, right?

Based on your false premises, yes.

Bane, is credited with what Palps achieves in darkside prophecy, and Palpatine simply acted off of knowledge and wisdom that was gathered through Bane's actions.

Wrong. If we use your logic, we can credit Bane's success directly to Revan and -- at best -- Palpatine's belongs to Plagueis.

Truly hilarious, but no, you can't even substantiate how smart Sidious was, and the fact remains that Sidious had help from all of the knowledge and wisdom that Bane's Order gathered over the millennium that they were active for.

I've already done so. You've yet to prove that Palpatine received help in conquering the galaxy. Inspiration =/= help. Bane directly received help from Revan.

The rest, I lack time for but it's recycled. I'll address it when I return if you like, but now, I've gotta go. Good luck proving it all, Sith'ari. Until you do so, don't bother replying, because I no longer plan to respond til you meet my expectations by proving me wrong.

Essentially: never.

Wow.. After reading this I'm convinced I haven't seen this kind of denial since high school, from the social outcast groups. They would lie to themselves and tell themselves they're smarter than others when reality points to the complete obvious. Then they would just lose their shit and make fools out of themselves, sort of like Noobaris.

Get it through your thick skull Noobaris. You cannot debate, nor could you EVER debate. Every debate you engage in, you lose. Then you try to tell yourself and everyone else that you've proved some point or outdebated somebody, and people laugh at you. Stop making a fool out of yourself and just refrain from typing, it's embarassing for you. You haven't even come close to debating with Escape and I still wonder why he dodges the fact that you're completely incompetent and tries to give you the benefit of the doubt by continuing a pointless debate with you.

Actually, Ultra Omega`s point that Bane`s order contributed to the Palpatine`s sucess is not without merit. Surely all these previous Sith Lords were contributing to the growing corruption of the Republic and the accumulation of Darkside knowledge. And Bane as the founder of the Order deserves some credit, though of course it cannot be compared to Palpatine doing the job previous Lords were preparing for.

Though I don`t see how it helps- Palpatine is the greatest Sith without any doubt, according to cannon.

Originally posted by Gideon
Your insults are recycled from previous arguments under your different accounts, Nebaris. Since you aren't award-winning in your wit or ability to flame, perhaps you should remove them from the equation and stick to the argument?

Firstly, that's a statement, not a question. Perhaps next time you'll use a period.

Secondly, insults? Clearly you were desperate to include that little line about Nebaris not being championed for his ability to flame, because that wasn't an insult. I wouldn't be talking about logical fallacies if I were to insult you. I was speaking the truth. Try it sometime.

The fact remains that you'll continue to tell me how I am doing things and I'll do the same; you tell me I'm wrong, I tell you you're wrong. You say you've proven your point, I'll say you haven't. It's a vicious cycle, and it's apparent that neither of us is about to change our ways.

Sure thing, yet the fact remains that I speak the truth and don't care for popular consensus, whereas you'll care more about convincing others than providing a cogent argument.

Yet, also, the fact remains that you clearly haven't -- by virtue of on-panel evidence and canon-approved statements -- proven anything.

Yeah, say that all you want; it doesn't change the fact that anybody who's mastered the forever difficult ability to use the search function can quite clearly see that I provide an abundance of proof in every single one of my debates.

Why do you think you've had to resort to try to question the validity of the quotes at my disposal?

Do you... not understand the entire concept of countering someone's points? Here's essentially what's been happening: you make the claim that Sidious is the most powerful Sith there's ever been. You made it, so the burden of proof is on you. You then attempt to prove it, by supplying all of these inconclusive quotes. Surely even you can see that the next step for your opposition would be to address these quotes, no? "[I've] had to resort to try to question the validity of the quotes at [your] disposal" because you seem to be under the impression that they alone prove your stance; the stance that I disagree with.

And even then, you haven't managed to undermine them: as "my boyfriend" Publius puts it best, your actions have demonstrated "a willfull ignorance of the English language".

How about bringing your boyfriend here, I'm tired of arguing against someone and not getting a reply back.

You're proficient with three "forms of defense", Nebaris. 1.) the ambiguity card.

Now why exactly do you have such a big problem with that defence? You post quotes, that might appear to prove your point, and pass them off as conclusive... Well then, there's only one defence to that: proving that they're not conclusive aka proving that they're ambiguous.

2.) dodging points

Dodging points? Another example of your dishonesty; I reply to every single bit of your post, and my replies are parallel to your points.

Dodging points is what you do, with your constant Strawmans and Irrelevant Misdirections.

and asserting opinions without the benefit of proof.

Sure I do this, as does everyone, when the proof has already been provided before. It's just like when people will just go and claim that Sidious is the most powerful Sith there's ever been; because they feel that the proof has already been provided, and no longer necessary.

BTW, that wouldn't qualify as a defence, at least keep your bullshit consistent if you're gonna choose the dishonesty route.

3.) the "absence of proof" clause.

Which, again, is perfectly valid, and you wouldn't have such a big problem with it if it didn't go against your absurd arguments big time. For instance, in the Sion/Sidious thread, you'll claim that Sidious is more powerful simply because he's displayed more power, despite Sion being able to perform an ability that Sidious can't, and whilst ignoring the fact that Sion hasn't displayed any limitation which can be compared with Sidious's level of power, and the fact that Sidious appears in an abundance of EU material whereas Sion is simply a supporting character for a single video game.

That's what you'd call an in-absolute argument, and the absence of proof "clause" is a perfectly valid defence. Arguing that an absence of proof = proof of the absence, however, would be what you'd call nutcase level logic.

Again, quit whining about perfectly valid defences, just because they go against your irrational methods of thought.

These things, at best (which is far from the level you've applied them) could only destabilize my arguments -- not prove your own. So even if you managed to prove me wrong, you haven't managed to prove yourself right.

You're still committing the style over substance fallacy, thinking that you can hide the lack of substance of your argument by sounding convincing so others will think you're in the right.

The arguments in question, in which I've used the mentioned defences, have all been in arguments where you've made the original claim, and the burden of proof has been on you. Now, clearly you don't really know what the burden of proof is, so I'll clarify: I don't have to prove jack when the burden of proof isn't on me. Comprende?

So far, you haven't managed to do either. Not because you're incompetent or stupid (though I would question your common sense and decency) but because you're arguing against canon.

You would question my decency? Lol, that was just weird. And no, I'm not arguing against canon, I'm arguing against your limited interpretation of it.

This would be an example of defense number two: asserting evidence without the benefit of support.

You... do realise that we're not actually debating right now, right? You felt the need to go on some weird monologue, and I just claimed that you were being dishonest. I really don't care for supporting myself out of a debate, so save this for the actual debate Gideon, you wouldn't come out with this shit in a real life argument.

You've yet to disprove anything. All you've done is repeatedly flash the ambiguity card

Which essentially disproves the idea that the quotes you provide are conclusive.

and tried to wave the absence of proof clause like some unholy banner, expecting canon to bend to your will. It hasn't.

No, I really don't expect canon to bend to my will, given I've actually accepted that there's no one interpretation for the majority of these quotes.

All you're continuing to do is assert that you're right and I'm wrong. The difference being: you're all by yourself in that line of thought.

Again, lying achieves nothing, as does appealing to the popular consensus.

I'm proving that your argument, that deals with the definitive, is not cogent. If you didn't spend so much time on these monologues, we'd probably have reached that part of our debates by now.

I don't particularly desire your respect. You continue to demonstrate that you're not worth the time, effort, and patience I allotted you.

Please Gideon, be real here. We both know that out of everyone here, debating with me has proven the most entertaining and challenging. It's quite clearly why you've been debating with me on the constant since I joined up, and why you came back from what can be seen in your post count as quite the absence.

I debate the issues; you use double standards.

No, here's what happens: I speak the truth; you try to convince people that you speak the truth.

You attempt to use lies to cover up your identity. It's desperate and it's hypocritical. I tell you this and ask that you stop using such ridiculous tactics, and you resort to bashing.

Resort to bashing? Point out one "bash" directed at you, and I'll give you a e-pat on the back. Until then, please don't talk such bullshit.

Secondly, let's pretend that I am Nebaris. How would lying about my identity be hypocritical? See me telling anyone off for doing the same any time recently? No? Ok then. Desperate? This is what I don't get about you Gideon. The way in which you analyse such things isn't quite on the same wavelength as that of us regular people. Lying about an identity, so as to avoid a ban, is not desperate in any sense of the word. One wouldn't do such a thing because they've lost all hope, which is essentially what being desperate is. Your nutcase level of thought doesn't quite compute.

A broken record? As opposed to an individual who's came to these forums for over a year with a dozen or so accounts in an attempt to assert his non-canon and unsupported dreams? And then has the audacity to lie about it, while using carbon-copied statements and arguments verbatim and referencing users whom he -- if he were telling the truth -- never encountered? Perhaps I have truly underestimated your intelligence.

Again, another example of the odd things you say. You go on one of your rants, essentially telling me that I'm the broken record, and then you finish off with saying that you might have underestimated my intelligence? Really, quite strange.

A liar lecturing about honesty? The farce continues. I'll tell you what, Nebaris, how about you cease being a hypocrite before expecting me to follow your advice?

Hypocrite? No, even if I were Nebaris, I would only be a hypocrite if the lies in question were of the same sort. Lying about a former identity, so as to not get banned, speaks nothing about one's inherent honesty, whereas what you're doing: lying so as to convince others, does speak for it, you big liar.

I'm afraid not. The statement regarding the Sith'ari being a "perfect being" "is clearly hyperbole", since Darth Bane failed to succeed and accomplish the goals of the Sith order. The fact that he failed to achieve any level of immortality or overcome death -- the fact that he nearly died at Githany's hands due to her deception -- debunks the notion that Bane is a "perfect" being. You trying to define perfect as being "an uber Sith" is ridiculous. No one in Star Wars is perfect or has demonstrated a divinity approaching it.

Nice Strawman. Reply to one minor quote within my argument with an entire paragraph of text, why don't you?

I never said that it wasn't hyperbole, I didn't really say anything about it.

I was just including it within my argument as one of the descriptions of the Sith'ari. I could just as easily remove it, and my point would be in no way weakened.

Lastly, you've still yet to provide incontrovertible proof that Bane is the Sith'ari. You're merely speculating that he is. Speculation =/= fact.

Just speculation now. Not speculation and supposition? 😂

And again, what you need to understand is that 100% proof is not required in all cases. As I said, given the insanely huge probability of Bane being the Sith'ari, Occam's Razor would have it be as good as a fact in this debate.

Continue the majority? What majority? Where have I been "unable to continue" our arguments? I'm sorry, weren't you the one who admitted that you stopped contributing to our other argument (and then proceeded to rattle off some "reason"😉? I'd ask you for proof, but I've been asking for proof from you about a lot of things and I've yet to be satisfied.

I stopped replying to one argument. You've stopped replying to every other, and there's been a lot of other arguments.

a.) You've yet to prove that Bane is the Sith'ari.

Occam's razor would have it be as good as proven in respect to the debate.

b.) You've yet to prove that the Sith'ari is credited with the goals Palpatine accomplished.

Given the Sith'ari, who is Bane, is credited with making the Sith stronger than they had ever been, which only became the case with what Palpatine triggered the event of, he's receiving the credit. Get over it.

c.) Even if you did succeed in either a.) or b.), the fact that Sidious accomplished them and Bane did not means that he can't be credited for it. He's irrelevant to it.

The entire concept of indirect results clearly eludes you.

Prove it.

Bane, the Sith'ari, who has been referred to as the Sith's Chosen One, was prophesied to do what Palpatine "achieved." He was the one chosen to do it, he was the one destined to do it; Palpatine was simply the right man at the right time.

According to what is canon, Palpatine was destined to succeed.

No, he isn't. The Sith had simply been waiting for someone to fulfill his role. palpatine was that person. The role could have been filled out by a number of different people, Palpatine was just the perfect one to do so.

He accomplished the goals of the Sith order, ascended to galactic dominance, and destroyed both the Republic and the Jedi out of his own efforts -- not Bane's.

Please. You're not just being narrow-minded, you're being close-minded.

Palpatine was able to learn off of Sith knowledge and teachings that had been gathered for a millennium, and his vision required the efforts of others.

HE.DOES.NOT.GET.ALL.OF.THE.CREDIT.

Got it yet?

The only one that can be argued to get all of the credit is Bane, and in one respect only: that of destiny.

You've yet to prove that Bane is the Sith'ari

As good as proven, I think you'll find.

and that Bane assisted Palpatine in his galactic conquest. So this is completely irrelevant until such a time you choose to prove it.

Not just as good as proven here, but undeniably proven. Sidious is referred to as a product of the BoD's gathered knowledge and wisdom.

Incorrect. I'm managing to prove that Palpatine was all three. The strongest. The smartest. The greatest. You've failed to prove Bane's any of the three.

LMAO.

Firstly, this argument isn't even about personal strength, so managing to prove that, as a claim, doesn't even make sense. Sure, you can claim to have done it, but like all of the other bullshit you spew, it would be far from the truth.

Secondly, you've failed to substantiate the intelligence required on Palpatine's part to do what he did. All you've done is elaborated on the scale of his achievements.

Thirdly, greatness is very much debatable. As far as Sith prophecy is concerned, Bane is credited with achieving what Palpatine triggered the event of.

Prove worthless? Proof seems to be a concept that eludes you. Now, if proof could be directed based off of double standards, deceit, and your constant use of the ambiguity card, you'd come considerably closer to accomplishing your own goals. As it happens to be, however, canon supports me. Not you.

No, it really doesn't. You can lie all you want, but you've been intellectually curbstomped each time, to the point where you've resorted to argue that it's the underlying message, rather than the sole interpretation.

Or that Sidious possessed the power and skill required to remain hidden from the Jedi (which he did)

LOL.

For the forum retards, in nice big letters: "POWERFUL ENOUGH TO RETURN THEM FROM HIDING."

And.. you go and elaborate onto something that was able to keep the Sith in hiding? This is one of the many reasons why you've been getting demolished in every single one of our debates: you miss the point, and your replies are constantly non parallel to the original claim.

and the intelligence and resources used to manipulate them (which he did) into handing him power over the dark side.

Bingo! Sticking to the point. Now, as can be seen, clearly personal combat power had nothing to do with it, making your original interpretation of the quote nonsensical.

Because I don't subscribe to the idea (bound in perpetual stupidity) that Bane deserves credit for Sidious's accomplishments? Lol.

Bound in perpetual stupidity? No, bound in darkside prophecy.

It's a fashion you've made quite popular with your first dozen accounts.

Again, quit referring to me as someone I'm clearly not.

Kreia's not "seeing through the eyes of the Force" but "using the Force to assist her vision". There's a difference.

Is the Force a person, Gideon? Does it have eyes? I'll answer for you: no.

Meaning, for the quote to *not* be a metaphor, the only explanation would be that "through the eyes of the force" refers to the Force Signature given off by all matter within the SWU, making the quote regarding Revan's exactly like this one.

Point is, you have zero grounds to label Sidious a dark side nexus. To do such, would mean you'd have to label Revan a force nexus as well, for your reasoning to remain consistent.

The constant repetition of "clearly" this and "clearly" that has yet to prove your argument. Prove it was a metaphor.

The Burden of proof Fallacy. I'm starting to associate this one with you, Alex.

Now, please don't try to shift the burden of proof onto me; you made the claim, so it's up to you to prove on up.

Good luck, Sir.

Another example of double standards. Do you actually believe that people will believe this? Palpatine conquered the galaxy. Bane? He murdered a few hundred cowardly, weak Sith Lords.

Double standards? How so? Explain yourself.

The number is irrelevant? I lol'd. The number is highly relevant when compared to the scope of Bane's goals and achievements and those of Sidious's. Bane displays high intellect manipulating one man. Palpatine demonstrates a suitably stronger level of patience and mental prowess by conquering two separate governments and ascending to direct power over the institution of his most hated foes.

"LOL" all you want Darth Sexy #2, the number really is irrelevant in this case, simply because when arguing the sheer intelligence required on both Bane's and Sidious' part, you'd have to look at the individual manipulations that both did. Sidious manipulated a number of people, over a large period of time, and thus of course the scale of his overall achievement would have been larger. However, that's irrelevant. Analyse the individual manipulations to substantiate Sidious' supposed superiority in intelligence. As far as the individual manipulations go, Bane was able to manipulate Lord Kaan, someone described as an evil genius, into doing what he willed. Sidious manipulated a bunch of weak willed politicians and a sheep like populace. There's really no comparison.

Prove that it was him and not one of his lineage.

Mace refers to the fall of Darth Bane. The clear, underlying message, here, is that Bane himself came into contact with the Jedi, but sadly, was killed.

Bane understood that he could not accomplish his goals. His implementation of the Rule of Two (an idea clearly belonging to Revan), does not put him on par with Sidious.

Here, seeing as you ignored this this time round, I'll post it again:

Revan's role in the Ro2 was far more limited than people would make out. All that Revan provided Bane with the knowledge of, was that the dark side was strongest when concentrated in small numbers rather than large, and having more than one apprentice was self defeating because it would present them the opportunity to unite against the Master, meaning that it wasn't always ensured that the strongest would survive.

However, there's far more to the Ro2 than just that.

Bane alone understood the significance behind gathering s much knowledge as the Sith could before striking back at the Jedi.

Bane alone understood the significance behind waiting until the Jedi truly believed that the Sith were extinct before striking back at them.

Bane alone knew to wipe out the BoD, and then implement the Ro2.

Bane alone was credited in prophecy in achieving what Revan in part inspired him to do, and what Palpatine triggered.

Get to it.

And Bane understood that only when the Jedi were most complacent would they be destroyed, which was the case by the time of Sidious' rise to power.

He conquered a galaxy. He manipulated and destroyed two galactic-spanning factions locked in warfare. He dissolved the Jedi Order. He instituted the strongest military regime in galactic history. Palpatine's goals were much more complex and difficult than Bane's murder of a hundred cowardly, weak Sith Lords.

Elaborating on the sheer scale of his accomplishments is not substantiating the intelligence required to achieve them. Have a go at doing that.

Irrelevant. Bane had similar knowledge from Revan and Sith histories.

Similar? LMAO. Right, two holocrons and some information from some archives which are clearly described as quite limited and lacking compares to a millennium's worth of gathered knowledge. Right... 🙄

It puts them on par.

😂 😂

No, Palpatine had a major advantage in terms of the gathered knowledge, and he also had another: in the form of the complacent and no longer battle prepared Jedi.

The difference is, we can definately credit Revan for Bane's tactics and plans. PoD proves it.

On a extremely limited level.

Terrible logic. Palpatine's goal was on a galactic scope. Bane's? Hardly in comparison. My goal? To finish this argument. So, when I accomplish an lesser goal in a shorter amount of time than Bane -- I am automatically greater than him? 😆

Nice Strawman. I didn't say that Bane's goal is automatically greater simply because it took him less time, I was simply pointing that out as a factor which you weren't taking into consideration. The only terrible logic here is coming from the person who has been committing an abundance of logical fallacies.

Both the circumstances and accomplishments of Palpatine's reign were directly created by him.

LMAO. I had no idea that it was because of Palpatine that the Jedi were complacent and no longer battle prepared, and I had no idea that Palpatine was responsible for the millennium's worth of gathered knowledge. 😆

Shitty logic from a shitty logician.

Palpatine was a benefactor of circumstances, that triggered what is essentially credited to Bane. Right man at the right time' nothing more, could be something less actually, coming to think about it.

No one said he's stupid, Nebaris.

He's not just *not* stupid. He's displayed the greatest learning rate out of anyone in the entire Mythos.

Get your head out of his ass. And you dare accuse me of bias, rofl. I'm simply proving Palpatine was smarter and better.

No, you're not.

Obsessed with stamping out what he sees as idiocy.

What he sees is worthless since he sits in front of his computer screen with his Eyes Wide Shut.

Palpatine's plans were all his.

Right, the accumulated wisdom of the Ro2 Sith Order had nothing to do with it.

Neither did Bane realising that the Jedi could only be defeated through cunning and guile. 🙄

The resources he accumulated through use of pawns and scheming.

One would only need pwns if they were unable to achieve something on their own.

Credit, in that respect, is shared out.

The credit ultimately goes to him.

Not according to dark side prophecy, or logic.

Maul,

Again, Maul didn't do jack. Repeatedly bringing him up, and refusing to explain why makes you look like quite the silly billy.

Vader, and Dooku came closer to achieving the galactic seat of power than Bane ever did.

Bane didn't have that goal, making this comparison worthless.

And, as said, Dooku simply followed his Master's Orders, and used his given status as Count of Serreno to his advantage.

Vader didn't have to directly work for a Galactic seat of power, it was given to him by Sidious.

These comparisons are absurd.

And as I said before, if I succeed in accomplishing an inferior goal in lesser time, I'm better than Bane or Sidious if we use your logic.

No, if we use what you distorted my logic into Mr Strawman.

Based on your false premises, yes.

Again, Style over Substance is a logical fallacy. Simply making out that my premise was false doesn't make it so, no matter how convincing you present it (not that you've actually presented it convincingly).

You made a non-parallel comparison, and I pointed that out. Own up.

Wrong. If we use your logic, we can credit Bane's success directly to Revan

No, because Revan played a tiny part in Bane's success, at best. I say at best given that Bane was already coming to the conclusion that the dark side was spread too thin long before he came across Revan's holcron, and as said, there was far more to what Bane achieved than just what Revan "revealed" to him.

and -- at best -- Palpatine's belongs to Plagueis.

No, it belongs to the entire Ro2 Sith Order, as stated (that he was the product of their gathered teachings).

I've already done so. You've yet to prove that Palpatine received help in conquering the galaxy. Inspiration =/= help.

Please, it's more than just "inspiration." He was able to learn off of teachings gathered over a millennium. He's directly stated as being a product of those teachings. Those teachings molded Palpatine into what he became, and without them, he wouldn't have been in the same position.

Bane directly received help from Revan.

Help, which represented a mere fraction of what he used for his Ro2, and help which wasn't really necessary in the first place, given Bane's lines of thought had slowly been becoming parallel to those that Revan voices in his holocron.

The rest, I lack time for but it's recycled. I'll address it when I return if you like, but now, I've gotta go. Good luck proving it all, Sith'ari. Until you do so, don't bother replying, because I no longer plan to respond til you meet my expectations by proving me wrong.

Essentially: never.

LMAO. I thought you'd finish off with a burden of proof Fallacy. Fitting, I guess.

And the moron continues.

Indeed he does. You continue with the gross double standards, bashes, and the lies. Until such a time you relieve yourself of all three, this need not continue.

Well, I'd expect you to come out with such an excuse, after having your ass kicked. Nobody likes to admit defeat.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Well, I'd expect you to come out with such an excuse, after having your ass kicked. Nobody likes to admit defeat.

I have no qualms with consent or admitting defeat. Traditionally, one would have to actually beat me first. When you do that, I'll consent. Until then, you have some pruning to do before this argument continues. 😉

I pm'd Publius with your request. When he replies, I'll let you know.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Well, I'd expect you to come out with such an excuse, after having your ass kicked. Nobody likes to admit defeat.

And I rest my case about denial due to stupidity, depression, antisocial behavior, etc. It's too bad nobody ELSE has acknowledge you ever winning an argument Noobaris. Right now you're the butt of every joke on these forums.