Originally posted by anaconda
eventually they all seems to fall into that trap though
Exactly! I was going to say something along the lines of: "But even independant religions, the ones people make up and begin to share with others, eventually want to become those bloated, self-serving religions we see running the world today. It's how Christianity started. That's when the term brainwashing begins to creep into the equation.
Originally posted by Alliance
Dawkins is stuck in his old midlde ages. Spare us the drama.
What drama? And I wasn't making fun of him. I respect Professor Dawkins and most of his work. My only complaint about him is that all religion is the same in his eyes. In his mind there's no difference between a meditating Buddhist monk and a Palestinian nutjob who blows himself up in restaurant.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is why people need to keep religions on track. BTW atheism also has the same potential problem.
Yeah, there's a lot of Atheists who want to make everyone else an Atheist because they believe that would make the world a better place....doesn't sound too different from Islamic extremists.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What drama? And I wasn't making fun of him. I respect Professor Dawkins and most of his work. My only complaint about him is that all religion is the same in his eyes. In his mind there's no difference between a meditating Buddhist monk and a Palestinian nutjob who blows himself up in restaurant.
That's not quite true. He does state he sees the differences, but to him they are deluding themselves in the same way. That's not the same as being the same, of course.
Originally posted by anaconda
eventually they all seems to fall into that trap though
That in itself is fallacious thinking. Tell me, how will Islam and the native Navajo religion take someone down the same path?
Originally posted by Bardock42
It's like saying people with black hair have the same colour hair. It's true. I doubt you have no objections to that, so I figured you meant he says they are the same in harmful influence for example.
Which is incorrect.
Originally posted by Devil King
Exactly! I was going to say something along the lines of: "But even independant religions, the ones people make up and begin to share with others, eventually want to become those bloated, self-serving religions we see running the world today. It's how Christianity started. That's when the term brainwashing begins to creep into the equation.
I think thats humans just being basterds I dont think that has anything inherently to do with religon. Take away religon and people would just use something else.
Re: " No Terrorism in Islam "
Originally posted by Fatima
Hope that make sense ..By Zafarul-Islam Khan
Terrorism and resistance are two different things. Resistance by the people of an occupied country like Palestine, Golan and Iraq today and South Lebanon yesterday, is a sacred and fundamental right and duty in all cultures, old and new, and enjoys sanction even in international law laid down by western countries although this right will be invoked only when a western country will fall under occupation. Palestinians have every right to take recourse to all forms of resistance against the West-backed zionist zealots who have stolen their lands and do not let them live in peace in even the remaining 22 per cent of their historic homeland.
Apart from this there is senseless violence by some Muslims which is justified in various ways, political, religious and historical. This violence has received moral and material support from some wealthy and influential people in Muslim majority societies, especially the Gulf and Pakistan. Insurgencies in places like the Philippines, Pattani, Valley of Kashmir, have no meaning and have no hope of success either. These senseless movements have only succeeded in butchering their own youth and offering local governments a handle to unleash a reign of terror against their innocent Muslim populations.
It is a matter of shame for people in Muslim majority states that when sons of Muslim minorities approach them for help to build modern institutions like colleges, universities, research and media houses and the like, there is no response except for funds meant to build mosques and madrasahs. But if a few insane hotheads form a guerrilla organisation and go begging for funds with concocted tales of persecution they would not be disappointed until very recently. The correct approach should have been to tell these youth to go back to their homelands and make adjustment with their majority communities and governments, join civil society groups working for non-violent change, and live as useful and law-abiding citizens and try to earn respect and rights through hard work and dedicated service to their societies and countries. But, alas, this did not happen.
The Muslim press all over the world was and continues to be agog with stories of Muslim persecution, some purely concocted. When I personally checked some of these cases, including the Valley of Kashmir, they turned out to be incorrect and grossly exaggerated. I do not deny that there is persecution and human rights violation. But rights are denied to Muslims not just because of their religion but because they are the weak, uneducated and poor in their societies. They need to wage a long-term "greater jihad" against their illiteracy and poverty. But this is a long and tiring Jihad which is practiced only by healthy societies like Japan and Germany after the Second World War. Bereft of a long-term vision, some disgruntled Muslim youths take the shorter and easier path of "lesser jihad" and in turn bring ruin and disrepute to their religion and co-religionists and only add new problems. This is not the Islamic path. Indeed this is imitation of leftist movements led by Mao and Che Guevara in the 1950s and '60s which were lapped up first by Arab communists in the 1970s, a decade later tiny groups of "Islamists" in places like Egypt and Algeria emulated them bringing disrepute to Islam by killing foreign tourists and even slaughtering their own co-relgionists. Algerian terrorists freely, literally, slaughter Muslims who do not share their ideology. Organisations like Takfir wa'l-Hijra which killed the Egyptian Awqaf Minister Shaikh Dahabi in 1977 and Jihad Organisation which killed President Anwar Sadat in 1981 have only brought shame to Islam and pain to millions of law-abiding Egyptian Muslims who are not free now to offer even their basic Islamic duties as a result of this lunacy. Today all mosques in Egypt have been nationalised and imams receive official khutbas (sermons) to deliver, rather recite, on Fridays. Harmless Islamic activities, including freedom of expression, have been severely restricted.
At the present time this lunacy has been hijacked by Osama bin Laden’s Al-Qaidah outfit and tiny scattered groups allied to him. Very recently, Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi [real name: Fadeel Nizar Al-Khalayleh of Jordan], said to be one of Osama group's ideologues, has issued a statement which justifies killing Shias [who in Salafi belief are not "Muslims", indeed most Muslims around the world are not "Muslims" in the eyes of these lunatics] and condones killing even innocent Muslims since killing will hasten their entry into Paradise [text in Al-Hayat Arabic newspaper, 12 Feb. 2004]. This perverted and insane logic which justifies murder is behind the senseless criminal acts of mass murder seen last Ashura in Karbala, Baghdad and Quetta.
It is high time Muslim leaders and scholars around the world take a clear and strong stand that these insane elements are galaxies away from the Islamic message of universal peace, compassion and tolerance, that anyone fanning Shia-Sunni hatred is an enemy of Islam and friend of the enemies of Muslims. We totally disown these fanatics, condemn their ideology and their supporters whoever and wherever they may be.
If you kill mass people, blow up buildings, or spread fear of any kind, than you are a terrorist 👇
Please stop trying to redefine a universal concept. 👇
If you kill mass people, blow up buildings, or spread fear of any kind, than you are a terrorista few extrimist cant hold an entire religion hostage for their action, and besides blowing up buildings christians extremist are guilty of the rest of what you listed, are christians terrorists then? christian always the innocent, with their history of extremist acting on behalf of their god I think they should shut the **** up hypocritical morons and dont pass judgement on other way of belief, come to term with your own history and bend over and kiss your own ass and appology to the rest of the cultural world for ruining god knows how many cultures
Originally posted by KingTech
Where as I know there is no religion in the world who teaches terrorism.
008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
but fatima. isnt that what i was saying. only act when war is MADE AGAINST YOU. to the people i mentioned, it may well mean that war{intellectual/economic/ideological} is being faught against the muslims{not to mention physical war in israel/iraq/afghanistan}. and as i explained before, you can interpret the apparently innocent citizens of the participating countries to be active agressors as well, so according to that version, the above verse wud make them fair game.
What did the Quran mentioned is never commit aggression , fighting is allowed only for self-defense. Fighting must never be against non-combatants or non-fighting personnel.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
also, people are being threatened and made to leave their homes/protection etc etc all the time in afghanistan/iraq/paletine/kashmir etc.
also, you did not reply to the fact that it is mandatory on every muslim to kill any1 who does blasphemy anywhere in the world against the prophet or allah. wudnt that make it very legible for a muslim to kill people in other countries who quite often ridicule islam/prophet/allah etc? there is also the fact that people percieved to be spreading "mischief"in the land{blasphemy/anti islamic activites/deception against islam etc}
In this regard, I would like to cite for you the following fatwa issued by Dr. `Ali Juma`ah, Mufti of Egypt, in which he states the following:
Indeed, hurling insults and attacking the noble personality of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) by non-Muslims is nothing new. Rather it is an often repeated scenario. I would like to stress that such insults against the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) do stress his high status and noble character…
Although we categorically deny the perverted behavior of those ill-mannered people who attack the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and insult him, we are ordered to call people to the truth with wisdom and fair exhortation.
Indeed, the enemies of Islam hurl insults and attacks not only on the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), but also on their own prophets and messengers. For example, Prophet Moses was insulted in a film directed by one of those avowed enemies, and so was Prophet Jesus (peace and blessings be upon them all).
Finally, I would like to state that the enemies of Islam will continue in their campaign of attacks and insults, especially against Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and we Muslims warn them against their erroneous approach and the unjust trend they are embarking on!
Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, i have taken islamiat u know. i know this already. but i havent read anywhere that the INDIVDUALS of banu qraiza had the choice. it only says{tell me if i am mistaken} that one person chose uninimously, their fate. also, im not saying that they did not betray the muslims etc. what IM saying is that reguardless, the muslims/prophet did not have the sense to see that it was a wrong law and went through with it{obviously a muslim parent wudnt say that cutting of hand for stealing is WRONG. because obviously theyr MUSLIMS. doesnt mean you[as sum1 more logical] SHUD cut the hands of their children for petty theft even if the parents have no choice but tp agree} anyway. see, the children didnt have enough sense to decide for themselves, and you know very well, the opressed state of women at the time. they wudnt contradict the judgement. also, man of the young men wud oblige only due to fear/faith in their relegion. doesnt mean they deserved to be given that fate does it. they are deluded people beleiving in a fallacious relegion. shudnt the muslims and the prophet know better.
A ctually, this verdict given by Sa`d is purely from the torah, and no similar punishment can be found in any Islamic source .even many companions of the Prophet driven by mercy, told them that they could intercede and get them an amnesty from the Prophet. But Banu Quraizhah said,
"No, we will never violate the judgment of the Torah."