Classic Juggernaut v.s. WWH

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
HaHa I'm the fan boy…… Good one. You were the one claiming Hulk has unlimited stamina only to realize you put your foot in your mouth and took it back. Your also the one saying WWH didn't stop juggs when the vast majority of people on this forum or otherwise (who aren't even jug fans) say he clearly was. I'm not even a huge juggs fan myself as he's just okay in terms of a top character for me. Then you claim that he obviously broke through juggs for field because he grabbed his head…. Hey genius you don't think that was because he didn't have his force field up and was engaging the hulk in physical combat? Lastly, you claim he's going to hold juggs in some position that he's never held him in before for the win. You missed my point short bus…. If the hulk isn't getting angrier and angrier how is he going to hold him there. In order to increase his strength his anger must also increase which comes from being hit or hearing/seeing stuff that pisses him off. So, being that we can pretty much assume that won't happen we can therefore theorize that juggs can increase his strength enough to get out of it. However, lets say he holds him there for 20 minutes how is that a win because once he lets go juggs will continue the fight as he never gave up or was hurt in anyways. The only way I can see this leading to a victory is if juggs verbally submits (doubtful) or passes out from pain (haha good one). All this and you claim I'm the fan boy haha. Let me guess you have Lou Ferrigno posters all over your wall with jiz stains all over them huh?

Just because you want to change the rules to cater to your special scenarios means nothing, fanboy. Hulk is far from my favorite character. I just point and laugh about how unlimited stamina = automatic win, when Hulk fanboys could turn around and say unlimited strength = automatic win with about as much credence and intelligence. You want to ignore how unlimited stamina can be meaningless, that's your cup of tea. You ought to be well equipped to do so since I'm sure you've encountered plenty of Hulk fanboys who have done their fair share of ignoring how unlimited strength can be meaningless. You make fun of the worst Hulk fanboys, but you managed to completely reduce yourself to their levels of ignorance. Wow. Congratulations. You deserve a golf clap.

Things need to be spelled out for you don't they short bus.... I'm not claiming solely unlimited stamina gets him the win but in the end it does come back to that for this reason. When you have someone who has unlimited stamina and indestructible to physical force (hulks main weapon) how can you claim there is any other outcome. i could give you BFR because that is what Hulk usually does however that has been eliminated. So, when you have someone's main weapon (brute physical force) not being able to do anything to someone how exactly can he win. Ooo that's right your laughable submission theory lol. It's really simply Juggs unlimited stamina plus being invulnerable to physical force gets him this victory eventually. Hulk will tire out eventually as you've said yourself and that is when Juggs will take over. Show me a scan of Juggs being knocked out and then you might have some ground to stand on. This shouldn't be very hard to grasp buddy yet it appears to be.

^ Juggernaut got ktfo by Onslaught and by Bishop. Do yourself a favor and read a few comics. And since I never even argued that WWH would beat Juggs by knocking him out or even that he wins at all and the best these two would muster against each other would be a stalemate, do us all a favor and read the damn thread.

Or just save everyone some trouble and the next time you run around in circles inside your room with your Juggernaut underoos, screaming "I'm the Juggernaut, b1tch!" slam your head into the wall like your hero, k?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Juggernaut got ktfo by Onslaught and by Bishop. Do yourself a favor and read a few comics. And since I never even argued that WWH would beat Juggs by knocking him out or even that he wins at all and the best these two would muster against each other would be a stalemate, do us all a favor and read the damn thread.

Or just save everyone some trouble and the next time you run around in circles inside your room with your Juggernaut underoos, screaming "I'm the Juggernaut, b1tch!" slam your head into the wall like your hero, k?

Onslaught was a psychic entity. He wasn't shown to have hit Juggs physically. He could have easily messed with Cains mind and KO'd him that way. Bishop never defeated Cain. Cain still had a hangover from his run in with Onslaught.

Why don't you get off of talking about this guy running around in underwear and just debate.

^ Ok. If Juggernaut had unlimited stamina, he would never tire and never exhaust, never feel pain and thus could never pass out. Unless you were to use some super psychic power jazz like Onslaught or magic vortexes like Thor. Yet, after Onslaught had slapped him across the Canadian border, he got up and got laid out like a drunk sorority sister by Bishop's blast.

Obviously, Juggernaut gets hurt and damaged, since he was laid out by Bishop's blast. Therefore, unlimited stamina is a nice thing and all in concept, but relying on as the end-all-be-all statement to decide a vs thread is about as reductionist and infantile as relying on unlimited strength for the very same reasons. Sounds great and all in an abstract sort of way... but when it comes to on-panel appearances... not so hot.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Ok. If Juggernaut had unlimited stamina, he would never tire and never exhaust, never feel pain and thus could never pass out. Unless you were to use some super psychic power jazz like Onslaught or magic vortexes like Thor. Yet, after Onslaught had slapped him across the Canadian border, he got up and got laid out like a drunk sorority sister by Bishop's blast.

Obviously, Juggernaut gets hurt and damaged, since he was laid out by Bishop's blast. Therefore, unlimited stamina is a nice thing and all in concept, but relying on as the end-all-be-all statement to decide a vs thread is about as reductionist and infantile as relying on unlimited strength for the very same reasons. Sounds great and all in an abstract sort of way... but when it comes to on-panel appearances... not so hot.

When did Onslaught rip the gem out of Cain's chest?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Ok. If Juggernaut had unlimited stamina, he would never tire and never exhaust, never feel pain and thus could never pass out. Unless you were to use some super psychic power jazz like Onslaught or magic vortexes like Thor. Yet, after Onslaught had slapped him across the Canadian border, he got up and got laid out like a drunk sorority sister by Bishop's blast.

When your mind is effected you can still pass out. Cains body doesn't produce fatigue poisons. So his body will never tire due to activity. But if his mind is messed up, he can still be put to sleep. Xavier has done this many times. It seems you are the one who needs to re read the comics.

Bishops blast is not what affected him. He was still feeling the affects to what ever Onslaught did to him. Onslaught could have messed up his mind and then he threw him really far. The throw might not have actually damaged him. (It has been described the OS magnetically threw Juggernaut).

So I am going to say that Juggs wasn't physically beat by Onslaught. It was off panel. Juggs has a healing factor which healed him back from nothing but bones. He was even able to stand without ANY organs. So in other words, if Onslaught did anything to him physically he would have just healed. So OS attacked Cains mind.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It's your opinion that Juggernaut is a superior fighter in terms of technique. But you base your opinion solely on the training he received in Basic. You literally get a week of H2H combat training in Basic. And back during Vietnam, you probably received even less. I know. My younger brother was in the Army and wished they did more H2H training.

And whether WWH can get through Juggy's forcefield and get a hold on Juggernaut's person isn't a viable issue anymore. He did get a hold of Juggernaut in World War Hulk: X-Men. He was crushing his helmet with his bare hands and grappling with him. So, although what you theorize would be a pertinent issue before World War Hulk, right now, it's a dead issue. WWH can get a hold of Juggernaut.

Juggernaut did not have his force field up during the fight........not exactly the smartest thing to do but he did not have it up........

His force field stops motion and makes him untouchable......with it on I give him advantage over Hulk.......

Also Juggernaut received basic training in combat while Hulk received basic training in Gladiator like weapons during the time on Skaar.......in a simple brawl Juggernaut should have the advantage in terms of combat........but Juggernaut does not use his training and fights in a street like brawl and neither does the Hulk so basically the amount of training they received would not really be an issue........

Exactly you left out that whole part of the story and even then he wasn't Ko'ed. He was scared and got sent flying but ko'd I think not. Also, again the bishop thing..... ummmm does the whole onslaught gem dealeo ring a bell?

Originally posted by Mindset
When did Onslaught rip the gem out of Cain's chest?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
After the Canada and Bishop scene. Xavier had the gem on his desk as a paperweight when Onslaught: X-Men was published IIRC and trapped him inside the Gem. Either way, you don't need to have actual physical possession of the Gem to access the Juggernaut's power. It was a long time before the Gem ever actually bonded to Juggernaut. Right before Onslaught IIRC.

I know you don't need to be in possession I just didn't remember the order of events.

However in the Onslaught saga they make it as if Cain is weaker when not physically bonded to it.

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/5172/1bo9.jpg

Also OS says Juggs is indestructible, yet he easily rips through Juggs and takes the gem out. 😬

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
When your mind is effected you can still pass out. Cains body doesn't produce fatigue poisons. So his body will never tire due to activity. But if his mind is messed up, he can still be put to sleep. Xavier has done this many times. It seems you are the one who needs to re read the comics.

Bishops blast is not what affected him. He was still feeling the affects to what ever Onslaught did to him. Onslaught could have messed up his mind and then he threw him really far. The throw might not have actually damaged him. (It has been described the OS magnetically threw Juggernaut).

So I am going to say that Juggs wasn't physically beat by Onslaught. It was off panel. Juggs has a healing factor which healed him back from nothing but bones. He was even able to stand without ANY organs. So in other words, if Onslaught did anything to him physically he would have just healed. So OS attacked Cains mind.

We can agree to disagree, I haven't read the issues in a while to be honest. Either way, unlimited stamina isn't really going to help him if he gets put in a hold and incapacitated for the necessary length of time for it to be considered a win.

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
Juggernaut did not have his force field up during the fight........not exactly the smartest thing to do but he did not have it up........

His force field stops motion and makes him untouchable......with it on I give him advantage over Hulk.......

Also Juggernaut received basic training in combat while Hulk received basic training in Gladiator like weapons during the time on Skaar.......in a simple brawl Juggernaut should have the advantage in terms of combat........but Juggernaut does not use his training and fights in a street like brawl and neither does the Hulk so basically the amount of training they received would not really be an issue........

Originally posted by Mindset
I know you don't need to be in possession I just didn't remember the order of events.

However in the Onslaught saga they make it as if Cain is weaker when not physically bonded to it.

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/5172/1bo9.jpg

Also OS says Juggs is indestructible, yet he easily rips through Juggs and takes the gem out. 😬

❌

If there's any more name calling or flaming I'll close this thread and hand out warnings.

I think it's a pretty clear deduction that Juggs is weaker when not bonded to the gem. I think it's a pretty easy deduction to say that he was attacked mentally by Onslaught which is what had him really messed up. All this leads to him still being out of it from that attack from Onslaught when he meets bishop. Ooo by the way somebody claiming that Cain is better in H2H then hulk because of Korea or anything really I'm not buying. I would give the slight edge to the hulk in that area

Onslaught is an aspect of Xavier. Xavier knows Juggernaut can't be harmed by physical means which means Onslaught also knows this. Why would he try if he already knew it would be no good?

Psychic mind rape is all that happened to Juggernaut in the Onslaught saga.

Hulk is my favourite character, but no incarnation of him is winning this one. I reckon, when enraged, that he surpasses Cain in pure strength. The Hulk is incredibly durable (when the artist doesn't choose to depict him having skin that breaks as soon as you at him-yes romita I'm looking at you) and has has high level stamina that enables him to perform at peak levels for days-Juggy on he other hand has limitless stamina and his enchantment makes him completely invulnerable. The fight could go on for days but Juggy's hits would hurt Hulk-Hulk's attacks woudn't do antyhing to Cain. Eventually after several days of fighting the Hulk would begin to tire, then Juggy would knock him out