Interesting...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The atom itself is not alive, but cell it's in is.

And please don't tell me you're comparing a planet in the universe to an atom in a body. That's just an erroneous comparison.

So, you are made up of nonliving stuff? All of the materials, like atoms and molecules, that make up your body are not alive?

Therefore, the only part of you that is alive is the trillions of cells that are made of nonliving stuff?

There seems to be a connection between nonliving stuff and living stuff. All living stuff are made of nonliving stuff. However, planets are made of nonliving stuff, but you don't believe they are alive.

Have you ever heard of the Gaia Theory?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, planets are made of nonliving stuff, but you don't believe they are alive.

They're not alive because they don't use energy or reproduce.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Have you ever heard of the Gaia Theory?

No I haven't; humor me.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
They're not alive because they don't use energy or reproduce.

No I haven't; humor me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

You have to educate yourself.

There are extremeophiles that set dormant for years without using energy or reproducing. Are they dead?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And please don't tell me you're comparing a planet in the universe to an atom in a body. That's just an erroneous comparison.

Why is that such a bad anology ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Why is that such a bad anology ?

I suppose it was a perfectly sound analogy in Shaky's mind since he believes that the universe is a living entity

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I suppose it was a perfectly sound analogy in Shaky's mind since he believes that the universe is a living entity

How is beleiving that the universe is a living entity itself any more far-fetched or illogical than your Biblical God ? 😬

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
How is beleiving that the universe is a living entity itself any more far-fetched or illogical than your Biblical God ? 😬

It's baseless. Is there any scripture that talks about the universe being alive? Or is it one guy's idea?

Furthermore, there's a lot vacuum in the universe; why would a lifeform have pockets of nothingness?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It's baseless. Is there any scripture that talks about the universe being alive? Or is it one guy's idea?

Furthermore, there's a lot vacuum in the universe; why would a lifeform have pockets of nothingness?

You believe a book, and you think I'm a nut. 😆

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It's baseless. Is there any scripture that talks about the universe being alive? Or is it one guy's idea?

😆

Scripture makes something valid ? Wow....that's new !

You'd accept what other people have implanted into your head...the idea that white man with a long beard living in the sky created the universe-okay, that's logical, but then you laugh at the idea that the universe itself may be sentient..that may be God itself.

You accept one far-fetched idea because it's been fed to you by society, but when a new "far-fetched" idea comes along, you're like "no way..that's baseless".

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Furthermore, there's a lot vacuum in the universe; why would a lifeform have pockets of nothingness?

Between our molecules and atoms there are empty spaces as well.

I still find it funny that you can beleive that a single male being created the entire universe in all its complexity, but you can't grasp the possibility that perhaps the universe is itself an organism....hmmm....

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
😆

Scripture makes something valid ? Wow....that's new !

You'd accept what other people have implanted into your head...the idea that white man with a long beard living in the sky created the universe-okay, that's logical, but then you laugh at the idea that the universe itself may be sentient..that may be God itself.

You accept one far-fetched idea because it's been fed to you by society, but when a new "far-fetched" idea comes along, you're like "no way..that's baseless".

Between our molecules and atoms there are empty spaces as well.

I still find it funny that you can beleive that a single male being created the entire universe in all its complexity, but you can't grasp the possibility that perhaps the universe is itself an organism....hmmm....

Who said I laughed at the idea, ey? I'm open to the possibility of the universe being alive, but what more does he have than his own idea? Scripture is a lot more to go by, than one guy's guess.

Furthermore, I believe the Bible on my own accord. Never suggest I'm a sheep again.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Who said I laughed at the idea, ey? I'm open to the possibility of the universe being alive, but what more does he have than his own idea? Scripture is a lot more to go by, than one guy's guess.

Furthermore, I believe the Bible on my own accord. Never suggest I'm a sheep again.

I gave you a reference to the Gaia Theory. That is more then just my ideas. You seem to have missed that.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Who said I laughed at the idea, ey? I'm open to the possibility of the universe being alive, but what more does he have than his own idea? Scripture is a lot more to go by, than one guy's guess.

Oh okay..I understand.

What he has to go by is:

1) His own logic
2) His own experience
3) His analysis and intepretation of mythologies and scriptures prior to his new chosen belief.
4) His religion

Buddhism doesn't necessarily define God, but there are Buddhists and Buddhist teachers who do beleive in the sentience of the universe. That would explain how all Life is One, and how the Cycle of Life and Death (samsara) occur.

Also, don't forget: Wiccans also beleive in universal sentience. Although they worship the God and Goddess (Death and Life, Mother Earth and the Hunter God), they feel that Earth and the Moon itself is alive, as well as the sun, and every other celestial body.

And even if you don't adhere to a specific religion, many people who are spiritual beleive in oneness of life, and do beleive in a universal mind. There are Native Americans who beleive that today. Shamans, and healers and speakers of other types.

New Thought Movement (who beleive in the Law of Attraction) also beleive that the Universe is a living organism in itself.

And even if an individual with no religious background believes something due to his or her own findings and experiences with nature/environment/science/society, that doesn't make his or her beleif any less valid than someone else's.

Just because you have a Bible and a Church with a History does not make your religion more valid than someone else's. There are Pagan religions which FAR PRECEDED YOUR OWN. Do you for a second beleive those to be more valid than yours ? 😬

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Furthermore, I believe the Bible on my own accord. Never suggest I'm a sheep again.

I am glad to hear that. I thnk that's how the Bible should be taken- by one's own investment and intepretation, and not someone else's. 👆

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Oh okay..I understand.

What he has to go by is:

1) His own logic
2) His own experience
3) His analysis and intepretation of mythologies and scriptures prior to his new chosen belief.
4) His religion

Buddhism doesn't necessarily define God, but there are Buddhists and Buddhist teachers who do beleive in the sentience of the universe. That would explain how all Life is One, and how the Cycle of Life and Death (samsara) occur.

Also, don't forget: Wiccans also beleive in universal sentience. Although they worship the God and Goddess (Death and Life, Mother Earth and the Hunter God), they feel that Earth and the Moon itself is alive, as well as the sun, and every other celestial body.

And even if you don't adhere to a specific religion, many people who are spiritual beleive in oneness of life, and do beleive in a universal mind. There are Native Americans who beleive that today. Shamans, and healers and speakers of other types.

New Thought Movement (who beleive in the Law of Attraction) also beleive that the Universe is a living organism in itself.

And even if an individual with no religious background believes something due to his or her own findings and experiences with nature/environment/science/society, that doesn't make his or her beleif any less valid than someone else's.

Just because you have a Bible and a Church with a History does not make your religion more valid than someone else's. There are Pagan religions which [b]FAR PRECEDED YOUR OWN. Do you for a second beleive those to be more valid than yours ? 😬

[/B]

Buddhism doesn't really care if any gods exist or not. Buddhists are like Jews in that they value happiness in this life for it's own sake. So I'm pretty sure that Shaky is violating his religion's rules by speculating that the universe is alive, which isn't even a Buddhist teaching and sounds like something he made up on an acid trip (no joke or humor intended). It's like a Muslim thinking "Y'know, maybe there really is more than one god"?...why the hell is that person even a Muslim? See what I mean?

As for the pagan religions that far proceeded my own, I think assigning a god to every tree, rock, animal, pots & pans and furniture is laughable, and the fact that such beliefs are just about extinct says something.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I gave you a reference to the Gaia Theory. That is more then just my ideas. You seem to have missed that.

So do you subscribe fully to the Gaia Theory?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Buddhism doesn't really care if any gods exist or not. Buddhists are like Jews in that they value happiness in this life for it's own sake.

You are correct 👆

Buddhism does not care whether or not God truly exists. The prime goal of Buddhism is the cessation of suffering in this life. And the secondary goal of Buddhism would be to teach one how to achieve Nirvana (freedom from the cycle of birth and rebirth).

I wasn't aware that Jews today share that same value for present life. That's good to know.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So I'm pretty sure that Shaky is violating his religion's rules by speculating that the universe is alive, which isn't even a Buddhist teaching and sounds like something he made up on an acid trip (no joke or humor intended).

He's not violating anything. Buddhism calls for one to understand whatever they can understand. Buddha (Siddhartha Gautoma) did not claim to know everything. He simply focused on what he thought was of most importance: Freedom from Suffering, Freedom from attachment.

There are Buddhists who beleive in God, and there ARE Buddhist teachings which claim that all Life is Connected. The way the cycle of life and death works, according to some Buddhist teachings, Life and Death are not opposites. Birth and Death are. Birth and Death are windows in and out of life.

Every single day you are concious and then unconcious in sleep. But you exist the same in both states. They are just different states. Like the cycle of being asleep and awake, in life and death you still exist, but in different states. The only difference is that in a life after death, you will not remember the life beforehand.

Now...some Buddhists still tend to trace hypothesis back to Hinduism. Hinduism teaches in many Gods, who are aspects of human and animal nature, but they ultamately beleive in the Brahman. The Brahman is the spirit, the ultamate unifying force which exists in every single thing.

Many Buddhists still carry that concept of Brahman. Brahman, not necessarily a person, but an entity which exists in everything.

The problem is that many Buddhist concepts about Life and Death, reincarnation, and the existance of God tend to contradict each other.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It's like a Muslim thinking "Y'know, maybe there really is more than one god"?...why the hell is that person even a Muslim? See what I mean?

You bring up a good point. A muslim has to essentially beleive in One God to be a Muslim.

However, a Muslim does not have to hate Jews, or fear non beleivers to still be Muslim. A Muslim does not have to cover thier women, or kill thier gay sons, or remain celebate until marriage to truly be a Muslim at heart.

Not all Christians beleive in Adam and Eve. Does that make them "less" Christian ? Some Christians don't even truly beleive in the Resurrection. They see it as a metaphor.

To be a Christian essentially requires to elements:

1- Beleive in God
2- Follow Jesus' example.

You don't have to necessarily beleive that Jesus is God's literal incarnation, but if you truly follow Jesus' teachings (the way a Buddhist follow's Siddhartha's), and use him as your example of life style, than you can still consider yourself a true Christian.

Buddhists can question many things. Even about thier own religion. But the one thing they cannot do is glorify suffering.

If a Buddhist beleives it is okay to make another person or animal suffer, or to kill for his or her own pleasure, than he or she is NOT a Buddhist, no matter what they argue.

There are some essentials which are required for one to truly participate in a religion. The beleif in God is not a necessary or controversial issue in Buddhism that it would call one to question thier status as a Buddhist. The issue of suffering is the most essential aspect of Buddhism, and one's views on Suffering make him or her a "true" Buddhist.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
As for the pagan religions that far proceeded my own, I think assigning a god to every tree, rock, animal, pots & pans and furniture is laughable, and the fact that such beliefs are just about extinct says something.

1) Those beleifs are not extinct. Native Americans, Wiccans, and MANY people of other Faiths beleif in them. The reason you don't hear about it is because Christian media and Christian leaders have done thier hardest to suppress this.

Ex: A man in the military was kicked out because he was a Wiccan. When arguing that it was religious discrimination, George W Bush argued "witchcraft is not a religion".

*keep in mind, Wicca is a closetted religion. Most wiccans do not make thier status public, as they fear violence towards them.

2 I personally find it even more laughable that God is this white/arabic man, with a long beard and blue eyes, who lives in the sky, smiting people left and right.

3) Since God supposedly created every thing, why is it so laughable to conclude he exists in all things ? Is he not the Creator of ALL ? Wouldn't you assume that his signature exists in all things- living or non living ?

I mean...all matter is energy, so........

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

[b]1) Those beleifs are not extinct. Native Americans, Wiccans, and MANY people of other Faiths beleif in them. The reason you don't hear about it is because Christian media and Christian leaders have done thier hardest to suppress this.

Ex: A man in the military was kicked out because he was a Wiccan. When arguing that it was religious discrimination, George W Bush argued "witchcraft is not a religion".

*keep in mind, Wicca is a closetted religion. Most wiccans do not make thier status public, as they fear violence towards them.
[/B]

I said they were just about extinct. Modern Native Americans are overwhelmingly Christian with some exceptions among the elderly who still worship their native gods.

And Bush is a dumbass, but i'm sure you knew that.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

[b]2 I personally find it even more laughable that God is this white/arabic man, with a long beard and blue eyes, who lives in the sky, smiting people left and right.
[/B]

Ok, for the record, not a single Christian literally believes God to be an old white guy with a Santa Claus beard and flowing robe. That depiction comes from Zeus, so go head and wipe that from your mind.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny

[b]3) Since God supposedly created every thing, why is it so laughable to conclude he exists in all things ? Is he not the Creator of ALL ? Wouldn't you assume that his signature exists in all things- living or non living ?

I mean...all matter is energy, so........ [/B]

I guess that's up to the individual. Some people think that God inhabits every little atom, and others think that his relationship to the universe is like a person to a fishbowl: looking in from the outside.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Buddhism doesn't really care if any gods exist or not. Buddhists are like Jews in that they value happiness in this life for it's own sake. So I'm pretty sure that Shaky is violating his religion's rules by speculating that the universe is alive, which isn't even a Buddhist teaching and sounds like something he made up on an acid trip (no joke or humor intended). It's like a Muslim thinking "Y'know, maybe there really is more than one god"?...why the hell is that person even a Muslim? See what I mean?…

That is very mean of you.

The one thing you have to remember about Buddhism: there are no rules about God or no God. Other Buddhists do not come around and tell me what to believe. We are human, and like all humans, we can believe as we wish. I understand that the attachments to my beliefs lead me to suffering. But it is that knowledge that frees me.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So do you subscribe fully to the Gaia Theory?

No, not 100%, more like 70%. But that is not why I asked if you understood it. I was trying to get you to think outside the box. Did you read up on the Gaia Theory?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is very mean of you.

The one thing you have to remember about Buddhism: there are no rules about God or no God. Other Buddhists do not come around and tell me what to believe. We are human, and like all humans, we can believe as we wish. I understand that the attachments to my beliefs lead me to suffering. But it is that knowledge that frees me.

No, not 100%, more like 70%. But that is not why I asked if you understood it. I was trying to get you to think outside the box. Did you read up on the Gaia Theory?

Sorry if I came across as a puto.

So does Buddhism allow its followers to attach their own personal beliefs into the established religion?

Yes, I read the article. It's pretty interesting.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Sorry if I came across as a puto.

Thank you,

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So does Buddhism allow its followers to attach their own personal beliefs into the established religion?

No, not unless you start your own school of Buddhism, like Zen.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yes, I read the article. It's pretty interesting.

Cool.

I always wondored what qualified someone to establish thier own form of "Buddhism" or any religion for that matter....