Originally posted by Alfheim
Right well i already explained, read my post again. Venom can beat Spiderman easily but he ahs not recieved any training, he does it because of his stats BT does it becuse of his training.
actaully BT does it ebcuases of his powers. Nothing he did suggest it was due to skill.
All he did was ripp through spiderman webbing and beat spiderman due to superior strength/durability
In both there fights.
please tell me were he showed any signs of skill that would lead you to believe he was an expert MA fighter.
I read your post nothing in it even suggests this.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully BT does it ebcuases of his powers. Nothing he did suggest it was due to skill.All he did was ripp through spiderman webbing and beat spiderman due to superior strength/durability
In both there fights.
please tell me were he showed any signs of skill that would lead you to believe he was an expert MA fighter.
I read your post nothing in it even suggests this.
We already know that he has superhuman powers but it is also stated that he has training. If he has training he obvoulsy is going to use it and we can conclude this is one of the reasons why is able to tag Spiderman easily.
As I stated at the beginning of the fight BT casually grabbed Spiderman and dislocated his shoulder. The reason why he was able to do that so easily is because of his training its not just because he is superhuman.
Luke Cage is superhuman but he cant casually tag spiderman but he could if he was trained better. Venom can tag Spdierman but thats because he is superhuman. BT is inbetween Luke Cage and Venom in the sense that its not just superhuman stats that make him dangerous but its his training as well.
Originally posted by Alfheim
We already know that he has superhuman powers but it is also stated that he has training. If he has training he obvoulsy is going to use it and we can conclude this is one of the reasons why is able to tag Spiderman easily.
sorry tagging some one is far from skill full. espicial when he getting hit more times then he hititng them.
Originally posted by Alfheim
As I stated at the beginning of the fight BT casually grabbed Spiderman and dislocated his shoulder. The reason why he was able to do that so easily is because of his training its not just because he is superhuman..
also He got hit a lot more times then he hit spiderman.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Luke Cage is superhuman but he cant casually tag spiderman but he could if he was trained better.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Venom can tag Spdierman but thats because he is superhuman. BT is inbetween Luke Cage and Venom in the sense that its not just superhuman stats that make him dangerous but its his training as well.
actaully it pritty much his superhuman abilities. He show little to no skill. Nothing that even remotly puts him at even 3rd tier.
BT has superhuman reflexes. I don't know why you think him catching spiderman means he skill full what it simply his reflexes.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
or we can conclude it was due to his reflexes which are superhuman due to his powers...........catching some one is relfex no skill.
You cant say that for sure. Cap is trained he has superhuman reflexes he can see bullets in slow motion. It does not state explcitly WHY he has superhuman reflexes but we could assume since it is stated that he has had intense training that his training has something to do with it. Other people have had superhuman reflexes and have trouble hitting Spiderman so thats not clear cut.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
sorry tagging some one is far from skill full. espicial when he getting hit more times then he hititng them.no it due to his reflexes that come from his powers............catching some one is far from making you skill full. Hell the way he did it was not even skill full.
also He got hit a lot more times then he hit spiderman.
1. Why would he doddge when Spidermans punches dont even hurt?
2. Spiderman was speedblitzing him.. If he had just punched him that could be a fluke but he just casually grabbed him without effort.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully he couldent reguardless. He needs superhuman reflexes which he deos not have, but BT does have.
No not neccesarily. Scorpion has superhuman reflexes and Spiderman gives him grief.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it pritty much his superhuman abilities. He show little to no skill.
Again you dont know that, but you do KNOW he has had recieved training. Superhuman reflexes do not neccesarily mean you are going to beat Spiderman but training has shown time and time again to beat him.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Nothing that even remotly puts him at even 3rd tier.
So third tier fighters can easily beat Spiderman?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
BT has superhuman reflexes. I don't know why you think him catching spiderman means he skill full what it simply his reflexes.
I already explained. 😐
Originally posted by Alfheim
You cant say that for sure. Cap is trained he has superhuman reflexes he can see bullets in slow motion. It does not state explcitly WHY he has superhuman reflexes but we could assume since it is stated that he has had intense training that his training has something to do with it. Other people have had superhuman reflexes and have trouble hitting Spiderman so thats not clear cut.
ya and BT at times was having trouble hitting spiderman as well.........
Originally posted by Alfheim
1. Why would he doddge when Spidermans punches dont even hurt?
2. Spiderman was speedblitzing him.. If he had just punched him that could be a fluke but he just casually grabbed him without effort.
.
Originally posted by Alfheim
No not neccesarily. Scorpion has superhuman reflexes and Spiderman gives him grief..
Again you dont know that, but you do KNOW he has had recieved training. Superhuman reflexes do not neccesarily mean you are going to beat Spiderman but training has shown time and time again to beat him...[/B][/QUOTE]
...........Yet he shown little to no skill. Which is a fact. We also don't know jack about it training or even if he master a single style at all.
.........it not his superhuman reflexes that beat spiderman it his strength and durability............
Originally posted by Alfheim
So third tier fighters can easily beat Spiderman?I already explained. 😐
If you have BT powers yes. well at the time.
BT has shown nothing top put him even at 3rd tier let a lone above.
Hell he faced a second tier fighter...........and quess what he almost died.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
or maybe it due to umm..................the super soldier serum..........
No its not because even without the serum he has beaten top tier fighters.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
ya and BT at times was having trouble hitting spiderman as well.........
Please EXPLAIN how he was trouble hitting him.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
..........punching some one and grabbing them really is no deffrent. it takes the same amount of speed..........pritty much.
No but when you punch somebody you just make contact then you lretract. When you grab somebody you make contact then you have to grip...its more compliacted...not rocket scince but more difficult.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
........yes becuases he a putz. And he also no were near as durable as BT. If he was spiderman would lose to him as well.
Does Scorpion have superhuman reflexes or not? He might be a putz but he was still able to beat up Luke cage and give Cap some trouble. So Luke Cage and Cap are idiots?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
...........Yet he shown little to no skill. Which is a fact.
You call casually garbbing a speeblitzing Spiderman no skill?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
We also don't know jack about it training or even if he master a single style at all..........it not his superhuman reflexes that beat spiderman it his strength and durability............
"Its not stated explicitly but we can deduce that he probably is an MA expert because he has taken out Spiderman with ease something that Cap and DD have not been able to do and his training has enabled him to beat Delilah who is a trained assasin. So we can conclude that he is an MA expert because his job involves beating people up and he does it very well"
Originally posted by Battlehammer
If you have BT powers yes. well at the time.
Read above.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
BT has shown nothing top put him even at 3rd tier let a lone above.
[/QUOTEAgain third tier fighters cant easily kill Spiderman.
[QUOTE=9868508]Originally posted by Battlehammer
Hell he faced a second tier fighter...........and quess what he almost died.
Is second tier the same as third tier? Who was this person anyway and how did the fight go?
Originally posted by Alfheim
No its not because even without the serum he has beaten top tier fighters.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Please EXPLAIN how he was trouble hitting him.
Originally posted by Alfheim
No but when you punch somebody you just make contact then you lretract. When you grab somebody you make contact then you have to grip...its more compliacted...not rocket scince but more difficult..
Originally posted by Alfheim
Does Scorpion have superhuman reflexes or not? He might be a putz but he was still able to beat up Luke cage and give Cap some trouble. So Luke Cage and Cap are idiots?]
stop trying to use abc logic it does not work here
Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]You call casually garbbing a speeblitzing Spiderman no skill?
[
Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]I]"Its not stated explicitly but we can deduce that he probably is an MA expert because he has taken out Spiderman with ease something that Cap and DD have not been able to do and his training has enabled him to beat Delilah who is a trained assasin. So we can conclude that he is an MA expert because his job involves beating people up and he does it very well"[/I]?
sorry rough-house job involves beating people up as does most bad guys and there not all 2nd tiers or even 3rd or 4th.
[QUOTE=9868519]Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]Read above.
Is second tier the same as third tier? Who was this person anyway and how did the fight go? [/QUOTE
off pannel. bull eye almost kill him.........and dient sound like he put up much of a fight.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
really he beat some one with superhuman reaction speed/reflexes with out.........his serum. I wanna see this.
The point im trying to make is that even without the serum Cap is still dangerous. Cap has dodged attacks from a pissed off Thunderstrike, no hes not as fast as Spiderman but he does have enhanced reflexes. So its not just the serum thats makes him so good its tha training as well so you cant assume that superhuman stats are what makes you dangerous. If Cap fought Spiderman with no H2H knowledge he would get stomped.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
you know due to the fact he was missing..........
He wasnt trying. Read the dialogue. In their second fight he stated that he didnt want to kill him. In the first fight he was allowing himself to get hit, does that look like somebody who is trying their best?
Originally posted by BattlehammerIt does not involve skill never the less nor is it more then a fraction of a bit harder to do.
So what you saying is grabbing a fast person doesnt take skill?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
capt pritty much stomped him and capt does not have spidermans powerset.stop trying to use abc logic it does not work here
He beat him with skill.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
No it not it reflex speed.
Grabbing somebody fast doesnt require fasr reflexes? You cant have speed without reflexes?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
sorry, but he ebat spiderman due to his superior durability and strength. Nothing to do with skill at all.
So why did he have no problem grabbing him?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Ya and what has Delilah done? nothing jsut like BT
She is trained assasin. My point is in order to beat somebody higly trained you need to be higly trained, its not always the case but its a good indication of somebodies training. She also beat one of BTs henchmen and has fought Spiderman before, so shes no wimp.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
sorry rough-house job involves beating people up as does most bad guys and there not all 2nd tiers or even 3rd or 4th.
Its not just that his job involves beating up its the fact that its stated that he has had training. Roughouse hasnt recieved formal training but if was going to recieve formal training what do you think it would be in?
Originally posted by Battlehammeroff pannel. bull eye almost kill him.........and dient sound like he put up much of a fight.
Let me guess did it involve throwing something at him?
Originally posted by Alfheim
The point im trying to make is that even without the serum Cap is still dangerous. Cap has dodged attacks from a pissed off Thunderstrike, no hes not as fast as Spiderman but he does have enhanced reflexes. So its not just the serum thats makes him so good its tha training as well so you cant assume that superhuman stats are what makes you dangerous. If Cap fought Spiderman with no H2H knowledge he would get stomped.
Yes but his training does not give him faster reflexes. It makes him a better fighter.
Originally posted by Alfheim
He wasnt trying. Read the dialogue. In their second fight he stated that he didnt want to kill him. In the first fight he was allowing himself to get hit, does that look like somebody who is trying their best?.
really wer ein the first fight does he elude to letting him self be hit again?
Originally posted by Alfheim
So what you saying is grabbing a fast person doesnt take skill??.
no it requirea reflex.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Grabbing somebody fast doesnt require fasr reflexes? You cant have speed without reflexes???.
Originally posted by Alfheim
So why did he have no problem grabbing him????.
Originally posted by Alfheim
She is trained assasin. My point is in order to beat somebody higly trained you need to be higly trained, its not always the case but its a good indication of somebodies training. She also beat one of BTs henchmen and has fought Spiderman before, so shes no wimp.
Give me a break.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Its not just that his job involves beating up its the fact that its stated that he has had training. Roughouse hasnt recieved formal training but if was going to recieve formal training what do you think it would be in?.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Let me guess did it involve throwing something at him?
card. I think.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
when was this? I have a feeling your talking about when he lsot his super strength not serum.
No its was not when he lost his super strength.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yes but his training does not give him faster reflexes. It makes him a better fighter.
Yes it does because thats what martial arts do and thats why he has to train to keep at peek peformance even when he has the SSS.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
ya becuase spiderman was trying to kill him right 🙄
Well Spiderman would not have been pulling his punches or tyring to move slow would he?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
really wer ein the first fight does he elude to letting him self be hit again?
1. Its common sense. Spidermans punches have no effect on him whatsoever, why would he bother to dodge.
2. In the second fight he states that he alloed a Killeroid to hit him so he could get into a favourable position which indicates he is in the habit of letting himself get hit.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
no it requirea reflex.
Good grief. You cant have skill without reflexes. If you have crap reflexes you cant be a skillful martial artist. If your reflexes are shit you cant hit, dodge, grad or do anything.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......umm I stated it required reflex speed............
See above.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
..........are you serous. Spiderman hit him at least twice prior to getting caught. You can still hit/grab some one who faster then you are.
He wasnt taking it seriously. In their second fight he grabbed Spiderman straight away.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not if you have powers. Also she not highly skilled either. She ebat a cannon fodder whoopy. She must be a top tier fighter now.Give me a break.
no no no no no. I didnt say that she was top tier I said her training is enough to make her not a pushover since she has fought Spiderman.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
sorry training not enough. He shown nothing to even elude to him being ma expert.
Taking out Spiderman with ease, you have to remember in both fights he was holding back and is in the habit of letting himself get hit if it doesnt hurt.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
We know nothing about his training.
and again we can conclude that is training is good because it enabled him to beat good opponents easily.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Also blood scream was trained...........and he no better fighter then rough-house..........
Well obvoulsy he isnt as good as BT then is he? Thats the point im amking you can see the level of training by the resulst if BS doesnt show that much skill then his training isnt that good.
Originally posted by Battlehammercard. I think.
Thats not H2H!!!!!!!!
see this argument pointless.
You think he has skills I don't. you really have no evidence out side him stating to have been trained and his fight with spiderman..........whichw as simply reflexes, but what ever.
so what does this have to do with the fight? nada.
Since he still vastly inferior to Logan in terms of skill and training and experience.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Look that argument is crap. Lots of people on this forum use the argument that we dont know that its certain and its bullshit. You know why because in the real world people are not certain about lots of things but they use the evidence to indicate what the most likely conclusion is. Programmers implement progarms all the time and they are not entirely sure that it will work but they still use them, if they followed your line of logic nothing woulf get done.Its not stated explicitly but we can deduce that he probably is an MA expert because he has taken out Spiderman with ease something that Cap and DD have not been able to do and his training has enabled him to beat Delilah who is a trained assasin. So we can conclude that he is an MA expert because his job involves beating people up and he does it very well.
Hell its been said on-panel that Delliah is a skilled assasin you might as well argue that she wasnt trained in MA either when the most likely conclusion is that she is.
Whoa. My argument is crap? You gotta be kidding me. BT has shown NO proof at all of being a MA expert. You say he is because the handbook says so. When fighting Spiderman he showed NO MA skills to say hes an expert or even a master at different forms. There is NO evidence leading to Black Tarantula being a MA expert. You cant prove it.
Because he took out Spidey with minimal effort leads you to believe hes a MA expert? Are you serious? BT fights like a brick/slugger. In their first encounter, he did nothing to show such MA skill you mention him having. He GRABBED Spidey and slammed him against the wall. Nothing there says MA expert at all. It must to you though.
In their second encounter, it was pretty much the same thing. Nothing he displayed said MA expert. Again, he grabbed Spidey and slammed him on the floor.
You make me laugh. You say his training allowed him to beat Delilah. His training in weight lifting did. He caught her while she was taking a bath and was choke-slamming her against a wall. In NO WAY did he defeat her with skill. NONE.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Whoa. My argument is crap? You gotta be kidding me. BT has shown NO proof at all of being a MA expert. You say he is because the handbook says so. When fighting Spiderman he showed NO MA skills to say hes an expert or even a master at different forms. There is NO evidence leading to Black Tarantula being a MA expert. You cant prove it.Because he took out Spidey with minimal effort leads you to believe hes a MA expert? Are you serious? BT fights like a brick/slugger. In their first encounter, he did nothing to show such MA skill you mention him having. He GRABBED Spidey and slammed him against the wall. Nothing there says MA expert at all. It must to you though.
In their second encounter, it was pretty much the same thing. Nothing he displayed said MA expert. Again, he grabbed Spidey and slammed him on the floor.
You make me laugh. You say his training allowed him to beat Delilah. His training in weight lifting did. He caught her while she was taking a bath and was choke-slamming her against a wall. In NO WAY did he defeat her with skill. NONE.
completely agree.
His arguement is rediculous
but but he a easily caught spiderman well he was speed blizitng that must mean he MA expert
makes me laugh lol .
Originally posted by jrodslam
Whoa. My argument is crap? You gotta be kidding me. BT has shown NO proof at all of being a MA expert. You say he is because the handbook says so. When fighting Spiderman he showed NO MA skills to say hes an expert or even a master at different forms. There is NO evidence leading to Black Tarantula being a MA expert. You cant prove it.Because he took out Spidey with minimal effort leads you to believe hes a MA expert? Are you serious? BT fights like a brick/slugger. In their first encounter, he did nothing to show such MA skill you mention him having. He GRABBED Spidey and slammed him against the wall. Nothing there says MA expert at all. It must to you though.
In their second encounter, it was pretty much the same thing. Nothing he displayed said MA expert. Again, he grabbed Spidey and slammed him on the floor.
What just because he doesnt use fly kicks and pressure points, why would he do that when he doesnt need to? Just because its not flashy doesnt mean hes not an expert hell all Cap does sometimes is just punch people in the face, in difficult situations he would use more advanced techniques BT hasnt needed to. Obvoulsy though if it states hes been trained AND he can tag Spiderman easily thats due to his training regardles of how flashy it is.
Hell I told you that its said on-panel that Caps trains constanly and your response was.
Originally posted by jrodslamIts been stated that Cap trains in what? Trains caonstantly in acrobatics? Trains constantly in boxing and judo? Daredevil is also always training constantly.
Hell if its stated on panel that Cap trains constantly what the hell do you think he is most likely trained in.
Originally posted by jrodslam
You make me laugh. You say his training allowed him to beat Delilah. His training in weight lifting did. He caught her while she was taking a bath and was choke-slamming her against a wall. In NO WAY did he defeat her with skill. NONE.
Shes a skilled assasin. I would have thought you would need to have speed and stealth to creep uo on an assasin. Yes? Furthermore after he creeped up on her she wasnt able to fgiht back. BT has 25 ton strength but she was able to take shots from a 15 ton Spiderman with minimal effort, 10 more tons is not gonna be enough for her to get pawned like that dont you think she should have been able to fight back a bit?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
completely agree.His arguement is rediculous
but but he a easily caught spiderman well he was speed blizitng that must mean he MA expert
makes me laugh lol .
Ok then if it was stated that somebody recieved training and they fought Spiderman what evidence would you need to prove how good their training was?
Originally posted by Alfheim
What just because he doesnt use fly kicks and pressure points, why would he do that when he doesnt need to? Just because its not flashy doesnt mean hes not an expert hell all Cap does sometimes is just punch people in the face, in difficult situations he would use more advanced techniques BT hasnt needed to. Obvoulsy though if it states hes been trained AND he can tag Spiderman easily thats due to his training regardles of how flashy it is.
Fly kicks and pressure points? Not at all. His fighting style doesnt say "expert martial artist". He appears to be a boxer brawler. Thats it. He doesnt seem any more impressive in h2h skills than Luke Cage. He doesnt have to be flashy to be an expert martial artist at all. He doesnt seem more impressive h2h wise than Kingpin, and Kingpin isnt an expert either. You say that in a more difficult situation, hed use more advanced techniques, but how do you know? Hes been trained, so that means hes a MA expert in your eyes?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Hell I told you that its said on-panel that Caps trains constanly and your response was.Hell if its stated on panel that Cap trains constantly what the hell do you think he is most likely trained in.
Umm wasnt the debate with Cap and DD was who knows more styles? Cap is probably the best street lvl'er fighter. It can be debated. Why not? I stated that DD knew more styles overall in MA than Cap. Youre respone was that Cap trains constantly and hes older, so he learned more styles than DD.
You cant compare Cap to BT for the simple fact that Cap has been in much more fights than BT, and has shown much more skills over the years than BT has. True Cap throws the punches like a boxer, but hes also displayed the more technical skills/MA vs BP, DD, IF, Wolvie, Batman, etc.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Shes a skilled assasin. I would have thought you would need to have speed and stealth to creep uo on an assasin. Yes? Furthermore after he creeped up on her she wasnt able to fgiht back. BT has 25 ton strength but she was able to take shots from a 15 ton Spiderman with minimal effort, 10 more tons is not gonna be enough for her to get pawned like that dont you think she should have been able to fight back a bit?
Shes a skilled assasin, ok. Shes taking a bath and she HEARD BT coming. She thought it was someone else. You dont need speed as much as you would need stealth to creep up on someone. He came from out of the darkness. Big whoopie. Shw wasnt able to fight back cause he had her by the throat and hes 15+cl. If Spidey grabbed her from behind like that by her throat, she probably wouldnt have been able to fight back either.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok then if it was stated that somebody recieved training and they fought Spiderman what evidence would you need to prove how good their training was?
Training in what? Agility? Speed? MA's? Boxing?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so he was weakened.
Yea, he was given pills to surpress his powers. Durability, healing powers, eye beam and strength. He stopped taking them and later in the comic, he mentions that the effects of the drugs are wearing off. The drugs didnt effect his fighting skills however.
Being the "expert MA" that he is, he should have kicked Bullseye's ass. Or at least put up a good fight. Right?😬
Or did he need the strength, durability and eye beam to beat Bullseye?
