Can Thor beat either of these 2 heroes?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Didn't he die against the Destroyer? Almost get beat to death another time... got his hammer cut in half, etc.
Oh wait, he managed to BFR Destroyer...

Mangog... he got one-shotted by Mangog once, made to look like a fool many times...
Oh wait, he managed to kill a weaker one with a series of cheapshots.

Surtur... he got beat by him before...
Oh wait, he managed to BFR both of them, when they weren't paying attention.

Galactus... Almost got killed by him... got taken out by fog from Galactus...
Oh wait, he managed to chase off a weak Galactus with a cheapshot Godblast.

Couldn't resist. ermm

Which in a forum battle would be considered a win.

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

It's ok, it had no influence on my post. ermm

Originally posted by Larceny
Which in a forum battle would be considered a win.

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

Yes he did...

It's ok, it had no influence on my post. ermm

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

OK. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
And these two are big and sluggish like Destroyer... and also just killed Thor prior to...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

Ignoring context...

OK. 🙂

Is it necessary to state every loss before acknowledging a victory? ermm

Originally posted by Larceny
Is it necessary to state every loss before acknowledging a victory? ermm

Even though the only victory you really named was against the Destroyer... by BFR (and there's always a reason Thor results to BFR).

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Yes. 🙂

Even though the only victory you really named was against the Destroyer... by BFR (and there's always a reason Thor results to BFR).

No. 🙁

Usually killing or chasing someone off is considered a victory, regardless if the fight was fair.

Originally posted by Larceny
Usually killing or chasing someone off is considered a victory, regardless if the fight was fair.

Weird... although I guess I have to take back some statements about Hulk not beating Thor more than once...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So... cheapshots are considered victories nowadays?

Weird... although I guess I have to take back some statements about Hulk not beating Thor more than once...

Well yeah.... if that cheapshot leads to the defeat of the character. At lest thats how fights typically are around here.

Originally posted by Larceny
Well yeah.... if that cheapshot leads to the defeat of the character. At lest thats how fights typically are around here.

No they aren't...

Originally posted by Larceny
I've seen an enraged Surfer, and while impressive, imo he doesn't quite stack up to Thor. People don't quite grasp the impressiveness of the self imposed state of warrior madness, and while it was talk, we cannot ignore what was said. He was simultaneously tearing through a team of characters that according to the general populace reside in the upper echelon of herald level characters, including a supposedly enraged Surfer.

Originally posted by Larceny
Super Skrull? He's been owned by Thor as well, in fact he was shown to be helpless before the power of Thor

Originally posted by Larceny
Impressive, but more so that some of the more impressive moments of Thor?

Originally posted by Larceny
However the situation is different in this case. Thor and Surfer's feats are so similar in impressiveness that interpretation of who's more powerful is left up to direct comparison. Where as with Wonder Man and Namor their feats are completely dwarfed to the point where direct comparison is unnecessary to determine who's more powerful.

Originally posted by Larceny
True enough, but what we have to come down too after outside feats is direct comparison. Which fortunately for my case, leans towards Thor.

Originally posted by Larceny
An advantage of speed travel speed that rarely if ever translates into combat speed.

Originally posted by Larceny
Versatility that is matched by Mjolnir. In fact it's not a stretch to say that throughout each characters history, Thor has shown more capabilities threw Mjolnir than Surfer has with the Pc.

Again, on average Thor uses more exotic powers than Surfer, and I can almost guarantee he's used BFR as a tactic many more times than Surfer has.

Originally posted by Larceny
Transmutation? Thor's done it. Actually altering the genetic makeup of sentient being.

Originally posted by Larceny
Who do you have in mind? From my knowledge Thor has a better record against top tiers, and those above top tier than Surfer does. You know The Destroyer, Mangog, Surtur and Ymir, Galactus, etc.

But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

Also... since Surfer's more powerful, we all saw how many times he was able to hit Thor in the first fight. 😬

Perhaps?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

Naw, now you're just desperate.

- Thor killed Air Walker
- Thor stalemated Firelord, when Firelord beat the Surfer
- Thor was about to kill Kl'rt before Moondragon stopped him

How about when Thor just recently beat up the fenris wolf AND Loki with Mjolnir. Surfer does NOT have better showings against Loki, who in fact was able to punch SS off his board.

You know Blood and Thunder arc was made to look like all asgard being are far more superior than the rest.

I mean Dr. Strange, Surfer, Adam Warlock and the Infinity Watch where taken out by a gang of Asgardian thieves and 2 Ogre but against BRB and Sif this thugs where no match...

And here take a look at this..

BRB single handedly took WMThor out and it shows that the heroes where mostly there to subdue him. They could have whip his @ss right there, if BRB wanted too.

Originally posted by Larceny
This is what Surfer gets when cutting loose against an enraged Thor.

Thats a faky.. Check the scan below..

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2213/silversurferv3105p12mk3.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5638/silversurferv3105p13ak7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1125/silversurferv3105p16bg8.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7110/silversurferv3105p17ec7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2818/silversurferv3105p18yz0.jpg

see the difference..

Originally posted by llagrok
Naw, now you're just desperate.

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor killed Air Walker

On the other hand when Surfer beat Air Walker(which he did first by the way), the fight lasted a grand total of two pages...
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4844/fantasticfourv112119ye8.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3369/fantasticfourv112120pv7.jpg

Now are you honestly going to try to say that Thor's victory(which took 6 pages total, and required assistance from a little kid) over Air Walker was more impressive than Surfers(which took 2 pages and involved no outside interference)?

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor stalemated Firelord, when Firelord beat the Surfer

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor was about to kill Kl'rt before Moondragon stopped him

Originally posted by llagrok
How about when Thor just recently beat up the fenris wolf AND Loki with Mjolnir. Surfer does NOT have better showings against Loki, who in fact was able to punch SS off his board.

As for Surfer vs Loki, how do you NOT see Surfer's fight with him as being more impressive than Thor's? We've already established that Surfer was SEVERELY weakened during the period of time when he was on Earth, and that's the very period in which he beat Loki? Thor at normal power vs Loki= a good fight with Thor coming out on top, SEVERELY weakened Surfer vs Loki= a ok fight with Surfer coming out on top.

And knocking Surfer off his board for a bit during a fight doesn't really mean much when you take into consideration that Surfer was still the one to walk away the victor so I don't really get your point there.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that he didn't, I said that Surfer had a better showing against him(which he did). Put it this way, the Thor/Air Walker fight went back and forth and lasted a total of 6 pages. What's more, Air Walker had Thor down on the ground when a little kid that he'd befriended started begging him to leave Thor alone because Air Walker was about to kill him. Air Walker decided to leave Thor alone for the boy and go ahead on his quest to kill Surfer. Then when Air Walker didn't want to fight anymore Thor took him out with his hammer. Here are the last two scans of the fight if you need your memory refreshed...

Silver Surfer ripped Air Walker's cape off, that's pure luck. Thor actually threw his hammer straight through him, Norrin was attacking randomly when he attempted to take down Air Walker. He got lucky.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes she did have to stop him, but Thor took him out after the two of them fought toe to toe for a few pages. Surfer on the other hand started off kicking his ass and that was pretty much the situation through out the entire fight.

Thor wasn't really bloodlusted when fighting Super Skrull, who used his powers A LOT better against Thor than he did against the Surfer. Besides, you can't really say that Thor was bloodlusted, he was caught by surprise and got a little angry. He didn't really go all out, ANYONE can see that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I haven't seen the Fenris/Loki vs Thor confrontation(though I don't doubt it happened) so I can't speak on it.

As for Surfer vs Loki, how do you NOT see Surfer's fight with him as being more impressive than Thor's? We've already established that Surfer was SEVERELY weakened during the period of time when he was on Earth, and that's the very period in which he beat Loki? Thor at normal power vs Loki= a good fight with Thor coming out on top, SEVERELY weakened Surfer vs Loki= a ok fight with Surfer coming out on top.

And knocking Surfer off his board for a bit during a fight doesn't really mean much when you take into consideration that Surfer was still the one to walk away the victor so I don't really get your point there.

As Thor's? Have you read all of Loki's fights against Thor?

Just stroll over to Thor's respect thread and check out a couple of them. Thor physically defeated Loki w/hammer and Fenris, after Loki had taken over Asgard. Thor didn't even have his hammer, he just flat out kicked their ass. Far more impressive than the Surfer's fight against him.

Or how about the time when Thor killed Loki? Even though Loki was experiencing a huge power-up, Thor still beat him.

This is turning into a real ABC discussions. Let's draw the line here.

Originally posted by Roldz
You know Blood and Thunder arc was made to look like all asgard being are far more superior than the rest.

I mean Dr. Strange, Surfer, Adam Warlock and the Infinity Watch where taken out by a gang of Asgardian thieves and 2 Ogre but against BRB and Sif this thugs where no match...

And here take a look at this..

BRB single handedly took WMThor out and it shows that the heroes where mostly there to subdue him. They could have whip his @ss right there, if BRB wanted too.

Thats a faky.. Check the scan below..

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2213/silversurferv3105p12mk3.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5638/silversurferv3105p13ak7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1125/silversurferv3105p16bg8.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7110/silversurferv3105p17ec7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2818/silversurferv3105p18yz0.jpg

see the difference..

No, I didn't know that.... they all looked equally as incompetent against Thor.

Yeah I see the difference. One instance is against a Character at the echelon of top tier beings, and the other is against a mid tier at best. A mid tier thats already been depicted as helpless against Thor.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well there we'll just have to agree to disagree. I mean yes, the whole "Warrior Madness" thing was undoubtedly impressive, but that's the only real time there's even been a significant difference shown. Even in the grips of Warrior Madness, he was only able to defeat Adam Warlock as Him because Adam decided to lower his force fields and take him on man to man, and he was also given a tough time by Maestro if I'm not mistaken. And again if you want to get hung up on what was said by the characters, then Surfer can kill Thor with a warning blast.

But the Super Skrull actually fought Thor right before the Blood and Thunder arc and Thor didn't do anywhere near as well as Surfer did when he was in HIS insane state. Thor won of course but there was a fight first, Surfer STARTED off the fight maiming him, and it just got worse from there(Super Skrull was telling Surfer to just kill him by the time the fight was over).

I don't know what you're responding to here...

Ok then which would you prefer to look at, the direct confrontation between Supes and Thor or the outside evidence?

But one or two direct confrontations don't outweigh ALL the outside feats. If they'd had 4 or 5 strait up fights it would be one thing, but all you're going by is an instance where Surfer's power level is HIGHLY debatable, and an instance of Thor in a powered up mode where he's more impressive than he's been in his whole career. Given the circumstances, the outside evidence seems to be a bit more relevant in my mind.

Maybe not combat speed in the manner of Supes, but if Surfer's using his board to fly and maneuver he's still got a significant advantage over Thor in that department. You forget, Surfer's shown a remarkable amount of evasive ability on his board and routinely flys circles around his foes while blasting away.

I can all but guarantee I can come up with more exotic uses for the Power Cosmic than you can come up with for Thor. Tell you what, we can have a "Scan Off" where you show Thor doing something with his hammer and I'll match it with something similar from Surfer's Power Cosmic and we'll see who runs out first. And I said things LIKE BFR, it's entirely possible that Thor's directly BFR'd more foes, but Surfer's resorts to things along those lines more often from what I've seen. Plus, Surfer can actually pull a win via BFR on Thor while the opposite can't be said.

When was this? You're not talking about the Absorbing Man thing are you?

And Surfer has wins over guys like a Watcher, and the Uni-Lord, and has stalemated the likes of Korvac(who put a hurting on Thor and many others simultaneously).

But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

Got school.... I'll post later.

Thor can get wins on them, they can get wins on him, unless of course you mean them as a team, in which case he's ****ed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well there we'll just have to agree to disagree. I mean yes, the whole "Warrior Madness" thing was undoubtedly impressive, but that's the only real time there's even been a significant difference shown. Even in the grips of Warrior Madness, he was only able to defeat Adam Warlock as Him because Adam decided to lower his force fields and take him on man to man, and he was also given a tough time by Maestro if I'm not mistaken. And again if you want to get hung up on what was said by the characters, then Surfer can kill Thor with a warning blast.

But the Super Skrull actually fought Thor right before the Blood and Thunder arc and Thor didn't do anywhere near as well as Surfer did when he was in HIS insane state. Thor won of course but there was a fight first, Surfer STARTED off the fight maiming him, and it just got worse from there(Super Skrull was telling Surfer to just kill him by the time the fight was over).

I don't know what you're responding to here...

Ok then which would you prefer to look at, the direct confrontation between Supes and Thor or the outside evidence?

But one or two direct confrontations don't outweigh ALL the outside feats. If they'd had 4 or 5 strait up fights it would be one thing, but all you're going by is an instance where Surfer's power level is HIGHLY debatable, and an instance of Thor in a powered up mode where he's more impressive than he's been in his whole career. Given the circumstances, the outside evidence seems to be a bit more relevant in my mind.

Maybe not combat speed in the manner of Supes, but if Surfer's using his board to fly and maneuver he's still got a significant advantage over Thor in that department. You forget, Surfer's shown a remarkable amount of evasive ability on his board and routinely flys circles around his foes while blasting away.

I can all but guarantee I can come up with more exotic uses for the Power Cosmic than you can come up with for Thor. Tell you what, we can have a "Scan Off" where you show Thor doing something with his hammer and I'll match it with something similar from Surfer's Power Cosmic and we'll see who runs out first. And I said things LIKE BFR, it's entirely possible that Thor's directly BFR'd more foes, but Surfer's resorts to things along those lines more often from what I've seen. Plus, Surfer can actually pull a win via BFR on Thor while the opposite can't be said.

When was this? You're not talking about the Absorbing Man thing are you?

And Surfer has wins over guys like a Watcher, and the Uni-Lord, and has stalemated the likes of Korvac(who put a hurting on Thor and many others simultaneously).

But what I was refering to, was their showings against people that they've both fought against. Surfer has better showings against Loki, Durok, Super Skrull, the Hulk, Air Walker, Firelord, Ronan, Wonder Man, and Millinius.

If the thread were about Adam Warlock and Meastro than you may have a point, however those two have no relevance to the topic at hand. Simply put, Surfer during that arc was completely outmatched.

So would you have me ignore what Surfer said?

He's also fought Thor in other instances and been severely outmatched. Also, notice he difference in attitude between Surfer's instance, and Thor's.(I need to find the entire fight but this pretty much sums it up)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/antiforcesuperskrull1ex2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/antiforcesuperskrull2fp2.jpg

The million beings thing.

I actually don't consider their fight canon, so I have no opinion either way. However based on prior history of each character I believe a fight between the two would go differently than depicted. However I believe the same about Surfer and Thor, a simply believe Thor's the better of the two and would take the majority.

I never said that I base my opinion completely on a single showing, I only use that instance as it's the only instance besides their first where Thor was depicted as more powerful. I'd use the first, but it's shady.

Thats the only instance in which Thor was ever actually bloodlusted. That and when he shortly battled Arshiem before being killed.

Fine, but since you made the claim I'll allow you to begin with the scans. Also, I believe Thor's resorted to BFR more times than Surfer, and it's possible either character could pull a win employing this tactic.

Yes....

Thor's stalemated Zeus for months, a said rival of the skyfather who one-shotted Surfer. He also has great showings against Celestials and other above top tier characters.

Surfer's showings against Loki aren't better.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ThorvsLokiandFenris.jpg

His showings against Durok aren't better, In fact Durok had a great showing against Surfer even breaking his board. Against Thor?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/BetaThor1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/BetaThor2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/BetaThor3.jpg

I've already shown his fight with Super Skrull above....

Hulk? Lets see..... No Odin power, no Mjolnir, bare hands.....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorvseverybody6.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorvseverybody7.jpg

Thor killed Airwalker as well.

He stalemated Firelord. Surfer's beaten him and lost to him, hardly a better showing.

Can't comment on the last few.....

I'm enjoying this though. Great discussion. 🙂

Dude, why pull out a flashback from "the reigning" to prove that Thor can beat the Hulk? xD

Originally posted by llagrok
Dude, why pull out a flashback from "the reigning" to prove that Thor can beat the Hulk? xD

Because it happened...... and Thor had lost possession of Mjolnir and the Odin Power.

But this should suffice as well.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk4.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk5.jpg