Who really wone: Yoda vs Sidious"

Originally posted by queeq
There never was another day. So he fled, he ran, with his tail between his legs. And he admitted it himself: "Failed have I", ergo, he lost.

I always felt that when he said "failed I have", he meant in the broad scheme of things, not just failing to kill sidious. Yoda had made several mistakes and was seing the severity of his error in judgement.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Yoda should have won, as he was superior. he lost because of circumstances he couldn't control.

But anyway yeah Yoda had actually succeeded in disarming Sideous, and he was winning the force fight to but he fell off.

Damn right.

No one beats Yoda.

there was indeed another day. he knew that troopers were on the way and he stood little or no chance against sidious AND a large contingent of troopers.

Since when does a small squad on a hover platform count as a large contingent of troopers? And prove Yoda even knew they were coming. Just face the facts, Yoda lost because he just couldn't beat Sidious.

It was a draw, but is seems that Yoda was more powerful compare to Sidious - it was clear that Yoda had a little bit more power than Sidious.

The problem was that they fight at a place were Yoda had to win fast - Sidious was at his "home place" and could get a lot of help if Yoda didn't finish him off fast.

And yes - Yoda failed - He should have killed Sidious. But he did not loose the fight against Sidious - that is ridiculous.

been discussing this forever in the versus forum... (under anakin vs. sidious, as weird as that seems. Isn't that kinda where this thread should be?)

The novelization concludes that Palpatine wiped his ass with Yoda, the screenplay indicates that the Jedi Master was making the Sith Lord his *****, and the movie displays a parity between the two.

So, would one of you kindly tell me where Yoda (or Sidious) for that matter was "winning" outside of temporary advantages over the other?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
piss poor analogy, the texans were far outnumbered at the alamo.

Piss poor analysis, even if you were right about the odds being unreasonable, which they were not for a siege.

That's not the point of the comment, the point of the comment is that just because there is a mystique behind them doesn;t alter the fact that they lost. No matter how much you like them, nothing can change that. As it is here.

'But he fell off' used as a means to say Yoda should have won is insane talk. That's a bit like saying 'Agassi would have won that match if he had not fallen over and missed the shot'. Yeah, but he DID fall over when his opponent didn't, and that's a valid loss. It wasn;t bad luck or unavoidable circumstance. He messed up, much as you might mess up by failing to block your opponent's strike. And that pressure was caused by Palpatine.

Not that I am convinced by all this talk of Yoda's superiority anyway. Certainly didn't look that way to me. I am afraid most of this argument is inane. It's clear on-screen- Yoda failed and had to flee.

As far as a movie thread like this is concerned, there is only one answer- Sidious did. That's a canon fact. If you want to debate things in theory, go to the versus forum.

If this continues like a versus thread I will close.

all I am standing by is that if it had remained a saber duel, Yoda would have won.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
all I am standing by is that if it had remained a saber duel, Yoda would have won.

It's arguable. There isn't any real proof supporting the theory that Yoda is superior to Palpatine in lightsaber combat, or even that he disarmed the Dark Lord. I, for one, have a hard time believing that -- if Yoda truly outmaneuvered and relieved the Emperor from his lightsaber -- that the Sith Lord could have escaped a still fully armed Yoda in close quarters combat and made it half-way across the Senate rotunda before Yoda chose to follow.

Edit: As far as these ominous clone troopers are concerned, I would also like to challenge anyone to provide a shred of proof that they were, as you say, "on the way". Palpatine certainly had no time to summon them for assistance, and Mas Amedda didn't leave the Emperor's office in any immediate hurry. The novelization, for one, debunks the idea, proclaiming that Palpatine summoned the troopers only after Yoda had departed.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Piss poor analysis, even if you were right about the odds being unreasonable, which they were not for a siege.

That's not the point of the comment, the point of the comment is that just because there is a mystique behind them doesn;t alter the fact that they lost. No matter how much you like them, nothing can change that. As it is here.

'But he fell off' used as a means to say Yoda should have won is insane talk. That's a bit like saying 'Agassi would have won that match if he had not fallen over and missed the shot'. Yeah, but he DID fall over when his opponent didn't, and that's a valid loss. It wasn;t bad luck or unavoidable circumstance. He messed up, much as you might mess up by failing to block your opponent's strike. And that pressure was caused by Palpatine.

Not that I am convinced by all this talk of Yoda's superiority anyway. Certainly didn't look that way to me. I am afraid most of this argument is inane. It's clear on-screen- Yoda failed and had to flee.

As far as a movie thread like this is concerned, there is only one answer- [B]Sidious did. That's a canon fact . If you want to debate things in theory, go to the versus forum.

If this continues like a versus thread I will close. [/B]

This is bullshit.
The fact is that it was a draw.
We see differently how they managed in the fight and what would have happen if the fight has continued.
In my eyes it seems that Yoda was stronger compare to Sidious, but the fight ended as a draw.

Originally posted by Antaeus
This is bullshit.
The fact is that it was a draw.
We see differently how they managed in the fight and what would have happen if the fight has continued.
In my eyes it seems that Yoda was stronger compare to Sidious, but the fight ended as a draw.

Thats like saying the Vietnam war was a draw.

Why did Yoda enter the fight?
Why did Sidious fight against Yoda?

In the end, did Sidious get what he wanted?
What about Yoda?

This is bullshit.
The fact is that it was a draw.
We see differently how they managed in the fight and what would have happen if the fight has continued.
In my eyes it seems that Yoda was stronger compare to Sidious, but the fight ended as a draw.

No, the fact according to G canon is that Yoda got owned and lost the battle.

Originally posted by Sesse
Thats like saying the Vietnam war was a draw.

Why did Yoda enter the fight?

Why did Sidious fight against Yoda?

In the end, did Sidious get what he wanted?

What about Yoda?

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
This is bullshit.
The fact is that it was a draw.
We see differently how they managed in the fight and what would have happen if the fight has continued.
In my eyes it seems that Yoda was stronger compare to Sidious, but the fight ended as a draw.

No, the fact according to G canon is that Yoda got owned and lost the battle.

I do not know any G canon.
But I do know the movies - and in this forum we discuss what was shown in the movies (correct?).
If anything else is claimed in some canon Lucas made a very bad job showing it in the movie.

None of the fighters did win the fight (or exploited his advantage) - then it is a draw.
When none of fighters did win then everything will continue as it was - Sidious got the Universe in his hand. Sidious got what he wanted except that he also would like to kill Yoda - he just didn't have the strength to do it - and Yoda didn't have the strength to kill Sidious - it was a draw.

Double post

Originally posted by Sesse
Thats like saying the Vietnam war was a draw.

Why did Yoda enter the fight?
Why did Sidious fight against Yoda?

In the end, did Sidious get what he wanted?
What about Yoda?

Example of your logic:
Soccer World championship:
Last match in a group of four:
Finland against Denmark
Finland has to win to make it to the next round.
Denmark has to play 1-1.

The match ended 1-1
Did Denmark win? - No
Did Denmark get what they wanted? - Yes, but they did still not win. It is still a draw.
Finland got a draw too - but they did not achieved what they wanted.

Vietnam is an excellent analogy; the "conflict" ended in a stalemate. While they didn't repel the invasion, the United States made no real decisive gains that would constitute a victory and subsequently withdrew when the problem proved too costly. Ergo, the fighting ended in a stalemate, but in an actual realization of goals: Vietnam came out ahead. Same with Sidious.

I do not know any G canon.
But I do know the movies - and in this forum we discuss what was shown in the movies (correct?).
If anything else is claimed in some canon Lucas made a very bad job showing it in the movie

G canon is the films and film novelizations. According to them Yoda was bested by Sidious. There was no draw, only victory for the Sith.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I do not know any G canon.
But I do know the movies - and in this forum we discuss what was shown in the movies (correct?).
If anything else is claimed in some canon Lucas made a very bad job showing it in the movie

G canon is the films and film novelizations. According to them Yoda was bested by Sidious. There was no draw, only victory for the Sith.

bullshit.

You wishing it were not so doesn't change reality, my friend.