with his ubers willpower which to you is apprently mind powers, TK......
some rubbish i dont need to answer, i think anyone can see the foolery in that piece
Cloud in his turn-based mode could not defeat 4 guys with all his abilities fast...
what takes 2 seconds, freeze materia? show me please, oh and Sephiroth using it
they can move through walls and their a mode of forming, he wouldnt take a weaker form to reform
kain can spam the move, why not?, Kain moves into a dimension, he would simply move where Sephiroth is if he has to, hell, he could move into the spectoral realm which is a dimension where time in material freezes, kain rematerlises with the reaver in sephiroths head....he wins
With the Dimension Reaver, no he cannot spam the move, it has to be charged. Spectoral Realm? You do know that you cannot see people in the material realm from the spectoral realm right? So how can Kain "rematerlises with the reaver in sephiroths head" ? Foolish. Not only that but changing from dimension to dimension takes along time, and cannot be used as a speed.
heres something funnier, you tihnk sephiroth can beat kain....you also dont recall the tribunal thing is a year ago, ime far past that ignorence of Marvel, furthermore come, debate in the thread with those 3 characters in, it seems to me you cannot debate, but please try, i want some fun
am i? strange because ime laughing at you, i dont know about Madmel laughing but ime sure hes trying not to if he has strong control over himself
Originally posted by Terryc250
huh..? ur not making any sense.How is that foolery? Its true and that what will happen, so i guess you have no reply to that.
Yes he can, he one hits them, Kain kills them after about 10 hits, turn base, Cloud kills them faster, if it was real-time, he would kill them even much more faster.
No Kain takes atleast 2 seconds to reform, using magic takes about a second. Play the game, get to the part in the flashback when u have Sephiroth in ur party, look in his magic, and ull see every elemental attack there.
Huh? I asked you to show me Kain reforming from mist.
With the Dimension Reaver, no he cannot spam the move, it has to be charged. Spectoral Realm? You do know that you cannot see people in the material realm from the spectoral realm right? So how can Kain "rematerlises with the reaver in sephiroths head" ? Foolish. Not only that but changing from dimension to dimension takes along time, and cannot be used as a speed.
Sephiroth can beat kain.. ignorance of Marvel? Or ignorance of urself? I cannot debate? I post facts, you exaggerate kains attacks, then when shown the truth you go "oh well thats gameplay, itll work different in cinematic" without showing us ANY proof whatsoever that itll work differently in cinematic.
You sure like talking about madmel alot, must be feel good finally having someone agree with you for once huh?
hm, i thought this would be your answer, i dont talk in Sephiroth fan tongue unfortunatley
erm no....
no, in turn based he would take about 5 seconds to beat one guy and he has to w8 his turn, what makes you so sure? hes not in a real time game so you wouldnt no, since its gameplay the developers would increase the damage he would have to do deal to kill them, like they do to kain
nah he doesnt take 2 seconds, when he mists he is also turning himself into particles, so if someone cuts him, he would mist then reform. Simple, he can mist in a split second. This is more proof, V2D do you take 10 hits to kill a sarafan guard? do you also belive kain would take that long? it would take one hit with a sword to cut through cloth and kill a man.....Terry from now on, i will ignore all gameplay rubbish you come up with, its not part of the debate, huh, thats your reply? play the game, thats not debating, okie, ive got the game, you go get BO 1, 2, Soul reaver 1 and 2, and defiance, complete them all....no, thats not debating, you have to show me please
he turns himself to particles with mist and reforms all the time mr ive played the game
charged with the blood reaver that in-game needs to be charged, regardless this is the blood reaver your talking about, not the soul reaver which takes power from souls, and has a constant soul inside it, Raziel, near infinite charge unless Raziel starves, which took years, Kain can see into other dimensions now, he has purified sight, like how he can see EG, also using the same power the Dimension reaver gives kain, the dimension guardian in BO1 can see into other dimensions. But this is moot, kain will know where sephiroth is before he goes into the next dimension, cannot be used as a speed, takes a long time? how does it take a long time, kain goes in and out of dimensions in the split of a second and hits like 4 guys in a video i posed not far back.
Sephiroth...lawls....no you constantly bring up gameplay, not facts, if you rub away all the gameplay youve seen us which is invalid, you would have the pure move itself, what are you saying would not work? all these things are documented somewhere, like all the spells i gave you the link to, documented>>gameplay.
Madmel? well yeh hes the one guy who has knowledge other than i afaik about the whole of LOK, you dont have anything backing your claims....apart from assumptions of your own
Originally posted by Burning thought
hm, i thought this would be your answer, i dont talk in Sephiroth fan tongue unfortunatleyerm no....
no, in turn based he would take about 5 seconds to beat one guy and he has to w8 his turn, what makes you so sure? hes not in a real time game so you wouldnt no, since its gameplay the developers would increase the damage he would have to do deal to kill them, like they do to kain
nah he doesnt take 2 seconds, when he mists he is also turning himself into particles, so if someone cuts him, he would mist then reform. Simple, he can mist in a split second. This is more proof, V2D do you take 10 hits to kill a sarafan guard? do you also belive kain would take that long? it would take one hit with a sword to cut through cloth and kill a man.....Terry from now on, i will ignore all gameplay rubbish you come up with, its not part of the debate, huh, thats your reply? play the game, thats not debating, okie, ive got the game, you go get BO 1, 2, Soul reaver 1 and 2, and defiance, complete them all....no, thats not debating, you have to show me please
he turns himself to particles with mist and reforms all the time mr ive played the game
charged with the blood reaver that in-game needs to be charged, regardless this is the blood reaver your talking about, not the soul reaver which takes power from souls, and has a constant soul inside it, Raziel, near infinite charge unless Raziel starves, which took years, Kain can see into other dimensions now, he has purified sight, like how he can see EG, also using the same power the Dimension reaver gives kain, the dimension guardian in BO1 can see into other dimensions. But this is moot, kain will know where sephiroth is before he goes into the next dimension, cannot be used as a speed, takes a long time? how does it take a long time, kain goes in and out of dimensions in the split of a second and hits like 4 guys in a video i posed not far back.
Sephiroth...lawls....no you constantly bring up gameplay, not facts, if you rub away all the gameplay youve seen us which is invalid, you would have the pure move itself, what are you saying would not work? all these things are documented somewhere, like all the spells i gave you the link to, documented>>gameplay.
Madmel? well yeh hes the one guy who has knowledge other than i afaik about the whole of LOK, you dont have anything backing your claims....apart from assumptions of your own
slashing someone takes a second, not really, if theyre fighting regular humans, they would just increase the numbers of humans.
Yes he does, i even purposely killed myself, he closes his arms, then spreads his arms, then bats start flying then he dissappears, it takes the same time to reform as well.
btw, are these spells even canon'd in the storyline? These are optional spells that you can acquire in gameplay, but if theyre canon'd then why arent they in defiance or the others? When we debate Cloud, we dont give him every single materia in the game.
I'm talking about the dimensional reaver, it has to be charged. Well when im changing through dimensions, he doesnt do it instantly. And its not like Sephiroth will just be standing there doing nothing.
Well ive not seen any difference between cinematic and gameplay, and you cant show me any either
Originally posted by Terryc250
slashing someone takes a second, not really, if theyre fighting regular humans, they would just increase the numbers of humans.Yes he does, i even purposely killed myself, he closes his arms, then spreads his arms, then bats start flying then he dissappears, it takes the same time to reform as well.
btw, are these spells even canon'd in the storyline? These are optional spells that you can acquire in gameplay, but if theyre canon'd then why arent they in defiance or the others? When we debate Cloud, we dont give him every single materia in the game.
I'm talking about the dimensional reaver, it has to be charged. Well when im changing through dimensions, he doesnt do it instantly. And its not like Sephiroth will just be standing there doing nothing.
Well ive not seen any difference between cinematic and gameplay, and you cant show me any either
hm maybe if it was a PC game, but from my own experiance on average especially in FF games theres a small unit count in consoles, so the Console may not be able to support too many
are they canon? their part of kains abilities, their canon all right, why would they not be canon? their abilities just like Dantes guns and swords are weapons he can have in debates, wheras Clouds materia is diffrent, you gain it as an item and anyone can have materia, their special for Cloud
he will, when you go in Spectoral realm, time stops in other realms, so Kain could take a note where sephiroth is before he disapears, the Dimension reaver is what they call the blood reaver using the dimension emblem, you have to charge it up by taking blood, the soul reaver you dont charge because its always got a soul, its more like a battery
well thats besides the point, and yes theres diffrences, like kain being able to teleport and things like that, players cant teleport or choose to can they, but the point is its gameplay, and gameplay is not part of debates. Same with the amount of time you take to kill sarafan, theres nothing in it thats canon so just because your slow doesnt mean kain is, but either way, going all out Kain would kill so many more than Cloud could in 10 seconds
Originally posted by Furion
In BO2 Kain lost alot of his powers cept mist. It may be possible he didn't get any or all back.
i dont remember him losing all his powers, at least not canonically
i know he says he lost a lot of power or such, but power includes his army and his reaver also, he doesnt have the reaver until the end, he also forgets everything about Bo 1 in BO2 beginning but he remembers by the end, likely remembering his spell,s he definaltey knows by Elder kain time, 10k years into the future
theres many gameplay reasons he prob doesnt have a list of tonnes of spells by Defiance, same reason why they dont allow you to use more than 4 reavers when theres 8/9 of em
Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Raziel shifts into the Spectral Realm, moves behind where he knows Sephiroth is, shifts back into the Material Realm and impales Seph's soul.
By that time Sephiroth already abandoned the body he was inhabiting, and is using the Negative Lifestream to attack Raziel from all directions. Raziel's soul is diluted by the NL, and becomes part of it.
He wins. If Cloud can beat Seph's soul, Raziel certainly can. It's what he frickin' does.
Exist a difference between "beating Sephiroth's soul while it's focused on holding back Holy" and "beating Sephiroth's soul that is not holding back anything, and is being empowered by the entire Negative Lifestream.
SHM when Raziel goes innto spectoral time stops in the other realms, so no Sephiroth will not be doing anything, Raziel will just shift in with the reaver inside Sephiroth, and he is a gonner.
Also the Neg lifestream would never hit Raziel, he would go in and out of spectoral/material realms, Raziel would just open his cowl and the Neg lifestream would Nourish him as he swallows it down and turns it into his own energy, he would prob enjoy himself fighting Sephiroth if Sephiroth tries to use any lifestream powers
Originally posted by Burning thought
SHM when Raziel goes innto spectoral time stops in the other realms, so no Sephiroth will not be doing anything, Raziel will just shift in with the reaver inside Sephiroth, and he is a gonner.Also the Neg lifestream would never hit Raziel, he would go in and out of spectoral/material realms, Raziel would just open his cowl and the Neg lifestream would Nourish him as he swallows it down and turns it into his own energy, he would prob enjoy himself fighting Sephiroth if Sephiroth tries to use any lifestream powers
Raziel has never been able to get out of the spectorial realm wherever he wanted, and whenever he wanted, he needed the portals to get back into the material realm, when EG took the portals away, he had to find different means of getting back into the material realm, thus proving he cannot go in and out as he pleases.
Raziel cannot absorb lifestream, he would be harmed if he came into contact with it, don't forget that a portion of lifestream disintegrated meteor, his body would be gone if it touched it, also keep in mind that the negative lifestream is infected with J-cells, having it as nourishment isn't the smartest idea.
Not when the lifestream is attacking something. When the lifestream attacked Meteor people who came in contact with it died, and the people who made contact with the bodies got infected with geostigma creating the plague, like Denzel, him and his foster mom were in midgar when the lifestream attacked Meteor, she died holding the door shut protecting him from the lifestream, she died because she was exposed to it, her body plagued with geostigma, and transferred to Denzel.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Raziel has never been able to get out of the spectorial realm wherever he wanted, and whenever he wanted, he needed the portals to get back into the material realm, when EG took the portals away, he had to find different means of getting back into the material realm, thus proving he cannot go in and out as he pleases.Raziel cannot absorb lifestream, he would be harmed if he came into contact with it, don't forget that a portion of lifestream disintegrated meteor, his body would be gone if it touched it, also keep in mind that the negative lifestream is infected with J-cells, having it as nourishment isn't the smartest idea.
He can in Canon, just not the in-game your grabbing hold off which is obselete compared to actual canon evidence, the only time Raziel could not do it at will, is when Elder God took away his planar shifting abilities, making him go into the body of the dead, which he could likely also do to Sephiroth, but it doesnt matter, Raziel just opens his cowl and Sephiroth is done for, Sephiroth is nothing.
what makes you so sure? the lifestream harm him? why? dinitegraing a lump of rock is not the same as doing the same thing to something mostly spirit, part undead being who absorbs what the lifestream is. he would be turning it into his energy as it enters him so it wouldnt be J-cells anymore
Originally posted by Burning thought
He can in Canon, just not the in-game your grabbing hold off which is obselete compared to actual canon evidence, the only time Raziel could not do it at will, is when Elder God took away his planar shifting abilities, making him go into the body of the dead, which he could likely also do to Sephiroth, but it doesnt matter, Raziel just opens his cowl and Sephiroth is done for, Sephiroth is nothing.what makes you so sure? the lifestream harm him? why? dinitegraing a lump of rock is not the same as doing the same thing to something mostly spirit, part undead being who absorbs what the lifestream is. he would be turning it into his energy as it enters him so it wouldnt be J-cells anymore
Nothing in canon states he can go into the marterial realm whenever/wherever he wanted, no where did it say that the elder god took away his shifting abilities, it is stated as punishment the elder god removed the planar portals in the spiritual realm. He even said himself in his own words "He must find a portal to get back into the material realm" during a cinematic. Also, Sephiroth does not have a "soul" because the FFVII world does not work on souls, it works on lifestream, also Raziel cannot just open is cowl and devour any soul he pleases, why do you think he attacks enemies weakening them, before devouring their soul?
That "lump of rock" is durable enough to destroy a planet, disintegrating it is not a simple feat, if it can destroy meteor, it can destroy raziels body, lifestream and souls are different, soul's are harmless things, lifestream is harmful, and can be deadly if used as a weapon.
No, souls is like food to Raziel, if the soul is contaminated with j-cells it can be compared to poisoned food, it will harm Raziel. But it doesn't matter because Raziel cannot absorb lifestream just because he absorbs souls.. keep in mind lifestream and souls are different, one isn't harmful, and the other one is extremely harmful.
by Sephiroth is done for, i meant he would not have anything to do, and okie, that works for me, if Sephiroth has no soul, then Raziel inhabits Sephiroths body like it was a dead one, and becomes the soul inside
Its still a lump of rock that is not defending itself, disintegrating rock is easy if you know how, if you put a pebble in water for example, water will crumble it, but our hands splash through water with ease, but not through rock, understand? Its still soul energy, and no, souls are not harmless, technically raziel simply becomes a soul when he is spectoral, raziels wraith blade is his own soul, you think thats harmless? lol.
Souls are not like food, since they are not physical, they cannot hold poison, also prove cells can contaminate an ethereal spiritual soul, if according to you souls are not even in Final fantasy. Either way, Raziel TKs sephiroth stuck in the air, then he can simply impale him while invisible, OR the same strategy as i said earlier, use Sephiroth as a host
The Lifestream is a river composed of the souls from everyone who died on Gaia, so it's obvious that Sephiroth(and anyone else on the planet) have a soul.
I really don't understand where this "characters in FFVII don't have a soul" came from. It don't make any sense.
And Sephiroth's soul, willpower, and connection to the whole Negative Lifestream, makes him much stronger than the weak cannon fodder Raziel defeated(and eated the souls of).
Sephiroth's soul >>>>> the soul of anyone in LoK.
I really don't understand where this "characters in FFVII don't have a soul" came from. It don't make any sense.
by Sephiroth is done for, i meant he would not have anything to do, and okie, that works for me, if Sephiroth has no soul, then Raziel inhabits Sephiroths body like it was a dead one, and becomes the soul insideIts still a lump of rock that is not defending itself, disintegrating rock is easy if you know how, if you put a pebble in water for example, water will crumble it, but our hands splash through water with ease, but not through rock, understand? Its still soul energy, and no, souls are not harmless, technically raziel simply becomes a soul when he is spectoral, raziels wraith blade is his own soul, you think thats harmless? lol.
If you put a pebble in water, itll last for years before it disintegrates, you put ur hand in water for a week and your skin will start dissolving, a lump of rock (especially one the size of meteor) is FAAAR more durable then any biological being, unless its superman or something.
The soul Raziel feeds on are harmless, once he extracts them from the host, they cannot harm Raziel, the lifestream however, is a weapon, a powerful one i might add.. that cannot be compared to the ones Raziel devours.
Souls are not like food, since they are not physical, they cannot hold poison, also prove cells can contaminate an ethereal spiritual soul, if according to you souls are not even in Final fantasy.
Either way, Raziel TKs sephiroth stuck in the air, then he can simply impale him while invisible, OR the same strategy as i said earlier, use Sephiroth as a host
Don't see how Raziel can use Sephiroth as a host.. can't he only do that to dead people?
Originally posted by Terryc250
Because i don't ever recall it ever stated in canon, that their are souls, as i recall once you die, your body decomposes, returns to the planet, and your conscience merges in with the lifestream.Raziel cannot take over Sephiroths body because Sephiroth has control over his own body, with an unstoppable willpower.
If you put a pebble in water, itll last for years before it disintegrates, you put ur hand in water for a week and your skin will start dissolving, a lump of rock (especially one the size of meteor) is FAAAR more durable then any biological being, unless its superman or something.
The soul Raziel feeds on are harmless, once he extracts them from the host, they cannot harm Raziel, the lifestream however, is a weapon, a powerful one i might add.. that cannot be compared to the ones Raziel devours.
Raziel in the material realm is physical, he devours souls as food basically, to nourish him/heal him, so in a way the souls become a part of him. If he devours j-cell infected souls, he will have j-cells inside of him.
Sephiroths TK > Raziels TK, Raziels TK has never been shown to be even impressive, if Raziel goes invisible Sephiroth can simply fly up, destroy the area with lifestream, and Raziel goes down with it.
Don't see how Raziel can use Sephiroth as a host.. can't he only do that to dead people?
A big lump of defenseless meteor rock already being burnt in atmopshere does not equel Raziel who defends himself and will swallow souls of the lifestream, it would be like using fire against a fire elemental, sending the lifestream, and Sephiroth will not even know where Raziel is, Raziel could be right behind him invisible and sephiroth will not know, then just TK Sephiroth down before he gestures the Lifestream into life to attack him, the defencesless sephiroth now gets stomped
Sephiroths TK? he can barely hold people let alone raziel who could still attack him from range and use his own TK to bind sephiroth solid, Sephiroth wouldnt even know if it hit him, if Raziel escaped. Its more likely Raziel will simply open his cowl and swallow the lifestream souls as SHM said they were.
To Raziel Sephiroth is dead if according to you theres no soul, it will just be a body of cells willed to life, Raziel will take host within the thing.