Superman vs. Wonder Woman

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Three: Regardless of the age, the scan gives an illustration as to how Superman might win this fight, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue [b]against it.

Four: It was you yourself that argued Wonder Woman gave Superman a knee in Sacrifice, even as Captain Marvel does here.

Five: Knees at close range are actually a fairly standard part of Wonder Woman's fighting habits. So are ear claps. Examine the skirmish she has with Donna Troy at the end of this post.[/B]

You're arguing that scan as if it proves something for Post-CRISIS Superman, even not taking into account that Captain Marvel>Wonder Woman. Him being stronger and more durable means he can take the heat vision better and hurt Superman more in retaliation. Plus, the heat vision Diana took really was weak sauce compared to other examples.

Yes, but it was a knee to the groin against a mentally compromised Superman. Do you honestly think he'd expect technique from Doomsday?

Look above. If she connects, the blows can effect him, but the problem is assuming she WILL pull them off successfully because she did against a Superman who thought he was fighting Doomsday, who wouldn't do stuff like that.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Frankly, that looked about as much like Bizarro as you do, not the traditional one at all.

Can you post the page before and the page after that, please?

I don't know of them swapping from the Bizarro Joker made when he had Mxy's powers. Around the same time Parasite's look had substantially changed but it was still the same Parasite(unless you count the scientist's mind being gone). Unless you can provide evidence this is a different Bizarro, we'll just chalk it up to a different design.

And I can. But I won't provide the page before and after. I'll show the whole fight. 😛

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Superman%20VS--/Villains/Bizarro/Bizarro%20III/AC%20845

Page after that is a different scene, of Lois, Clark and the soon to be named Chris walking in the park.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If it were all that overwhelming, you would have changed my mind by now.

2003 to 2008, Delta. For the most part, you successfully convinced me Wonder Woman was a different and less formidable character [b]before that period than she was during those 5 years (1985 or thereabouts to 2003, mind you, NOT the pre-Crisis period).

However, pre-2003 Diana is not who people mean when they discuss pre-Flashpoint Wonder Woman.
Nor is pre-2003 Diana the one who acquitted herself so well in Sacrifice.
And you have to contradict a lot more than you realize if you want to convince me what you're saying is true for that 5year bloc.[/B]

Wonder Woman didn't do as well as you think in SACRIFICE. She was clearly physically inferior. Your "she doesn't have his durability" argument became a crutch long ago. It's true he's more durable, but the way you argue it is clearly to compensate for a lack of evidence in physical strength. Your only two arguments were showing the Earth moving in JLA(#75 or thereabouts) and claiming he was powered down(while citing an out of context example) and saying she was powered up since(without any actual evidence).

Then, your argument over the blatant strength gap shown in OUR WORLDS AT WAR(aside from arguing she doesn't have his durability means she wouldn't try to break an Imperiex Probe, problem is she didn't know they go explodey) is to say INFINITE CRISIS retconned it out of continuity. Problem with this? Means by your argument, the Earth moving thing was retconned too, so the only strength feat(which was shared) I saw you post "didn't happen" by your standards.

The only other example? Your flawed interpretation of her in a strength lock against Super Amazo. It's clear he was easily overpowering her despite his inferior position. You really got that scene wrong. To top it off, I can show you the late McDuffie saying he's stronger than her(he basically said Superman>Icon>Wonder Woman), unless you find a creative spin to say "McDuffie didn't say that), but that shouldn't be needed because the scene doesn't back your interpretation.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
So you and Quan really do have some fight experience?
How much do you weigh? How much can you leg press?
What can you curl, and, what is your win/loss record?

You can PM me about this if you want.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If someone would be so kind, Wonder Woman's fights against Genocide would be a good instructive for how a serious Diana treats a truly serious opponent. Wonder Woman #31 and 32, IIRC.

That would be more appropriate for the other thread, of course, but I bring it up here to make the point that Wondy has options in life-or-death situations that she does not use ordinarily, and that her tiara is not only a throwing weapon.

She's wielded it as a knife in battles, too.

I probably have the comics and can find them and upload the scans later. And I know where you're going, but this will only have fairly limited relevance, unless you want to have Superman fight stupidly.

Question Delta: if Superman was mentally compromised in 219 how was he able to dodge the lasso?

Originally posted by Letters
Direct confrontations hold more weight than indirect confrontations.

Amazing how you are able to delude yourself to such an extent. Quite an imagination you have there little fella.

That was really close.

Alternate history showings don't count.

I know its not directed at me. But what the heck.

Originally posted by Letters
WW 219 is the most formidable version of Superman WW has ever fought.

If thats true what would be the point? Why wouldnt circe just mind control him then?

Originally posted by Letters
Alternate history showings don't count.

Repeating yourself, eh?

Originally posted by Letters
Yet that is exactly what did not happen.

He tossed her but she was far from being koed and got back up facing him. I can't read the dcans as well. Kinda small.

And a mod has ruled against Sacrifice being used in Superman/Wonder Woman "debates".

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14825799&highlight=sacrifice+userid%3A41296#post14825799

That should end this debate. I hope.

Originally posted by Delta1938

Do you honestly think he'd expect technique from Doomsday?

Given stories like Our Worlds At War and Hunter/Prey, if Superman didn't expect technique from Doomsday by then, he just ought of.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

So you and Quan really do have some fight experience?
How much do you weigh? How much can you leg press?
What can you curl, and, what is your win/loss record?

Originally posted by Delta1938

You can PM me about this if you want.

mmm

You're not Mirko Crocop, are you?

If you are Mirko Crocop, I want an autograph.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Given stories like Our Worlds At War and Hunter/Prey, if Superman didn't expect technique from Doomsday by then, he just ought of.

When was the last time Doomsday wielded a magical razor sharp tiara? Oh, and are you actually arguing that Doomsday is a skilled fighter like WW instead of a brawler? 😮

Originally posted by Star428
When was the last time Doomsday wielded a magical razor sharp tiara? Oh, and are you actually arguing that Doomsday is a skilled fighter like WW instead of a brawler? 😮

When was the last time Doomsday weilded a magic lasso? How was Superman able to dodge that in 219?

This thread has a 114 pages. If anyone doesn't think this fight is debatable then something is wrong.

Nah! is mainly the WW fans clinging to decent showings WW had vs a mentally handicapped Superman.

Which looks good for her, IF YOU DON'T CONSIDER THE CONTEXT!!! 🙄

Superman wasn't mentally handicapped. How was he able to dodge the lasso if he was?

He is watching things that are not there, He is grabbing WW neck when he is seeing that he is holding Doomsday fist. Since this happen a lot dodging the lasso was probably him seeing doomsday punch and just moving out of the way, good lord how unthinkable that might be

He sees several people dead around Doomsday when there is no one.

You want to discuss this fight in a judged match?

Sure im down.

Cool I already PM you my stance, we need to find some neutral judges

And it begins. One judge should be enough.

One? who you?