Originally posted by Delta1938
If you're talking Quanny's take on this topic, she's just arguing because Superman fans are in the topic winning. I've seen Quanny argue for Superman beating Wonder Woman against Fangirl101 over on HeroChat, Fangirl is like a more aggressive female version of Letters. In fact, Quanny argued many of the same things about the context of the SACRIFICE fight against Fangirl that she ignores here when I brought them up to her.
If you think Fangirl is a female you're sorely misinformed.
Originally posted by Letters
Direct confrontations hold more weight than indirect confrontations.Yet WW still has a winning record and has looked superior in nearly every fight they've had. Amazing how you are able to delude yourself to such an extent. Quite an imagination you have there little fella.
Write some letters home, you sound butthurt. 😆
Originally posted by Bentley
If you think Fangirl is a female you're sorely misinformed.
You mean because Fangirl was also Nvr?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Against you a known gay cage fighter, absolutely.
Just drop it Quanny. You're a weak zeta male posing as an alpha. Your attempts to spin your fear are idiotic even by your standards. I was even willing to not bring-up your obvious cowardice regardless of how hilarious your justification is.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Not canon but fine.Cops>>>muffins.
That may be true, but grass isn't any tougher than muffins and that's what actually beat Thanos. The cops just hauled an already humiliated zeta off.
Originally posted by Bentley
Either that or he also sang in front of the president.
If you go back and read Nvr's posts, Nvr was really proud to be gay. If Fangirl was a sock account, I have a hard time believing that Nvr would drop the whole gay thing if he really were such a proud gay male. I suspect either Nvr was Fangirl "testing the waters," or that's a rare example of Fangirl's honesty and she wasn't actually Nvr.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman fans are in the topic winning.
Are they?
The lone reason I would give an edge to Superman is that I think he'd have just enough strength, speed, durability, and determination to grab Diana and deliver a heat vision shot. I cannot honestly say I envision any other conventional Superman fight tactic likelier to put her down than the reverse with the exception of this. However, in grappling context, said heat vision is a big enough exception for me to give him the nod.
I would not do so otherwise. I have not seen anything to suggest Superman has more than a puncher's chance to win in a non-PIS fight without such technique.
Then, too, even the "heat vision on grapple" maneuver carries some risk;
note that Superman suffered from trying it in Sacrifice much the same as he does here:
Originally posted by Delta1938
If you go back and read Nvr's posts, Nvr was really proud to be gay. If Fangirl was a sock account, I have a hard time believing that Nvr would drop the whole gay thing if he really were such a proud gay male. I suspect either Nvr was Fangirl "testing the waters," or that's a rare example of Fangirl's honesty and she wasn't actually Nvr.
Having discussed with both, I found it hard to believe they were different people. Nvr was a very particular posted, I actually enjoyed some of his debates but once he lost his patience he was a bit... Well, it was more than pointless to discuss under that conditions, it was literaly insulting.
But again, I haven't read either poster's posts for years now, so it might be my memory paying tricks. Back then I was entirely convinced Nvr made that sock account, it's not random that it became a well known fact around here.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Are they?The lone reason I would give an edge to Superman is that I think he'd have just enough strength, speed, durability, and determination to grab Diana and deliver a heat vision shot. I cannot honestly say I envision any other conventional Superman fight tactic likelier to put her down than the reverse with the exception of this. However, in [b]grappling
context, said heat vision is a big enough exception for me to give him the nod.I would not do so otherwise. I have not seen anything to suggest Superman has more than a puncher's chance to win in a non-PIS fight without such technique.
Then, too, even the "heat vision on grapple" maneuver carries some risk;
note that Superman suffered from trying it in Sacrifice much the same as he does here: [/B]
You also think that Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman, despite lack of evidence on your part and overwhelming evidence for Superman being much stronger.
One: Captain Marvel is superior to Wonder Woman. Two: I'm reasonably sure that's Pre-CRISIS.
Also, you never replied to me posting Superman did indeed one-shot Bizarro with freeze breath. You accept or deny what happened?
Originally posted by Bentley
Having discussed with both, I found it hard to believe they were different people. Nvr was a very particular posted, I actually enjoyed some of his debates but once he lost his patience he was a bit... Well, it was more than pointless to discuss under that conditions, it was literaly insulting.But again, I haven't read either poster's posts for years now, so it might be my memory paying tricks. Back then I was entirely convinced Nvr made that sock account, it's not random that it became a well known fact around here.
They do post in a very similar manner. But what you described as Nvr losing patient is Fangirl ALL the time. So, either your memory is playing tricks, or Fangirl changed. Although I suppose it's possible that Fangirl can just get away with more where I've encountered her than she could here.
Regardless, there's still the whole Nvr being very proud to be a gay male, and Fangirl is definitely standing by being female. I simply find it hard to believe Fangirl would drop the Nvr act and username if Fangirl really was a gay male pretending to be female.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Regardless, there's still the whole Nvr being very proud to be a gay male, and Fangirl is definitely standing by being female. I simply find it hard to believe Fangirl would drop the Nvr act and username if Fangirl really was a gay male pretending to be female.
Nah, I think that's exactly the kind of reasoning Nvr would have. It seems like a big enough thing for his perspective, but most of us wouldn't really consider that thing to be sound at all. We know people around here mostly because of their posting habits, not because of what they say about their personal life. Nvr was already one of those rare posters that liked to talk a lot of his "real life".
Originally posted by Bentley
Nah, I think that's exactly the kind of reasoning Nvr would have. It seems like a big enough thing for his perspective, but most of us wouldn't really consider that thing to be sound at all. We know people around here mostly because of their posting habits, not because of what they say about their personal life. Nvr was already one of those rare posters that liked to talk a lot of his "real life".
What exactly are you arguing?
Originally posted by Delta1938
One: Captain Marvel is superior to Wonder Woman.
Two: I'm reasonably sure that's Pre-CRISIS.
Three: Regardless of the age, the scan gives an illustration as to how Superman might win this fight, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue against it.
Four: It was you yourself that argued Wonder Woman gave Superman a knee in Sacrifice, even as Captain Marvel does here.
Five: Knees at close range are actually a fairly standard part of Wonder Woman's fighting habits. So are ear claps. Examine the skirmish she has with Donna Troy at the end of this post.
Originally posted by Delta1938
you never replied to me posting Superman did indeed one-shot Bizarro with freeze breath. You accept or deny what happened?
Frankly, that looked about as much like Bizarro as you do, not the traditional one at all.
Can you post the page before and the page after that, please?
Originally posted by Delta1938
You also think that Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman, despite lack of evidence on your part and overwhelming evidence for Superman being much stronger.
If it were all that overwhelming, you would have changed my mind by now.
2003 to 2008, Delta. For the most part, you successfully convinced me Wonder Woman was a different and less formidable character before that period than she was during those 5 years (1985 or thereabouts to 2003, mind you, NOT the pre-Crisis period).
However, pre-2003 Diana is not who people mean when they discuss pre-Flashpoint Wonder Woman.
Nor is pre-2003 Diana the one who acquitted herself so well in Sacrifice.
And you have to contradict a lot more than you realize if you want to convince me what you're saying is true for that 5year bloc.
Originally posted by Delta1938
I have a question. When I'm able to, will you step in a cage or ring with me so I can find-out how alpha you really are?
So you and Quan really do have some fight experience?
How much do you weigh? How much can you leg press?
What can you curl, and, what is your win/loss record?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yep, this is going to be fun.It's an accurate representation of him mentally compromised.
WW 219 is the most formidable version of Superman WW has ever fought. He was a brutal non holding back fighting machine with effective tactics against her. In fact, the mind control only enhanced his formidability as hes done the most damage to her in that fight.
Originally posted by Delta1938
It's an accurate representation of his blatant physical superiority over her.
Everyone knows Superman is stronger. The strongest opponent doesn't always win y'know.
Originally posted by Delta1938
An accurate representation of a no extenuating circumstance fight? Nope, your opinion is greatly flawed.
Its the most straight up fight they have against each other with very little outside interference. If any.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman showed to be much stronger, and of course Wonder Woman will come off more skilled than someone fighting like an idiot.
WW has always been more skilled and Supes didn't fight like an idiot. He used all of his powers in combination and caused major damage.
Originally posted by Delta1938
The heat vision wouldn't be pleasant, but considering his more impressive heat vision showings, it couldn't have really contributed to her KO.
WW is very durable and fast enough to block or dodge most hv blasts.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Strangled? Perhaps.
Yes strangled. Its painfully obvious.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Tanked his punch? Only an idiot would think she tanked it, considering the comic blatantly says she's unconscious.
Then got back up after just a few seconds.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Surviving reentry heat? That shows how desperate the WW side is. Top-Tiers surviving reentry heat ain't shit. Even Namor and Martian Manhunter have, and they have a specific weakness to heat/fire.
Did they go on to defeat a Superman level being directly after surviving re-entry?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Tanking freeze breath? We know it didn't take her out. Dunno if it hurt her or not.
Well it was freeze breath intended to hit Doomsday so it was prolly pretty strong.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Good thing for her this was before his Post-INFINITE CRISIS power-up or it would've taken her out.
Too bad there is no proof of that. And Superman will never get another chance.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Wrist snapped? Yep, she could still fight despite that, not a big deal though,
Ya WW is super tough and defeated Superman with a broken wrist.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman's had worse he's fought through and her whole "I'm an Amazon!!" shtick means she should take that in stride. And, in the end, she only technically won.
She had the upperhand at the end of the fight with Superman stunned and defenseless. Its far from a technicality.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Had Superman had the mental facilities he could've dodged or deflected it.
Superman proved more than capable of dodging the tiara as proven when he dodged WW's superspeed lasso attack in the same issue. The tiara was just too fast.
Originally posted by Delta1938
She's lucky he just stood there while she was still recovering from his punch.
You mean when she was trying to reason with him? (Holding back) then he immediately freeze breath attacked her? Lol. Ya he sure let her recover there :-\
Superman is lucky she decided to not decapitate him with the tiara.
Originally posted by Delta1938
She sure didn't have anything against KOing Kyle or Bruce or J'onn. Perhaps, she was UNABLE to KO him? Hell, she even says, "I knew I couldn't beat you." So even in one of his lesser showings against her, he still completely dominates her. And doesn't even think of her as a threat. Not good for you.
Yes at the time she felt she couldn't beat him. Thats why she didn't even want to fight him, just weaken him. Which she did with 2 kicks lol.
Originally posted by Delta1938
She had her moments, but El Oh PHUCKING EL that she looked superior in "the actual fight part of that fight."
She did. After the hv warning shot Superman is done playing and they are both ready. She hits him twice compared to his once and even gets a technical bfr.
Originally posted by Delta1938
She is rather motivated. He treats her like she's nothing.
Thats his mistake. He gets outskilled and kicked out of the mountain because of it.
Originally posted by Delta1938
That's before the fight even starts. She lunges at him, he spins around and grabs her wrist stopping it. She does manage to cut his cheek, I guess vibrating her hand with the blade barely away from his face.
Ya I know.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yeah, she does charge and bashes him with the shield. I never said she didn't have her moments.
He couldn't even react while looking right at her.
Originally posted by Delta1938
He probably got caught because he thought nothing of her.
Actually its prolly because of her skill and speed, as he was ready for her and even warned her with an hv blast showing he was serious.
Originally posted by Delta1938
And really, he shows she's well below him.
Maybe in power but not in formidability.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yep, she sends him through with a kick.
Bfr
Originally posted by Delta1938
Etrigan knocked Superman to the MOON with a punch. More impressive.
Who cares? Another bfr btw
Originally posted by Delta1938
Even without considering a kick is more powerful than a punch. And Superman is stronger than Etrigan.
Who gives a **** about Etrigan?
Originally posted by Delta1938
A Top-Tier sending a Top-Tier more powerful than them with a punch isn't the be-all-end-all.
I know. But that's what happened in 211. WW showed more skills and looked more formidable in the fight part of that issue.
Originally posted by Delta1938
And yeah, Wonder Woman doesn't smash the machine. Lucky for her, 'cuz then Superman would be pissed.
Good thing WW is capable of defeating a fully pissed Superman.
Originally posted by Delta1938
I notice you make a big deal about her standing there, but don't mention at all that in SACRIFICE,
Again. Shes trying to reason with him and he freeze breath attacks her for it. Its not like he stood there and let her wail on him. They were both standing and talking and he attacked first. According to abhillegend that is a sucker shot.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman stands there and lets Diana recover after KTFOing her(and reentry waking her up) when she was awake but still down, instead of finishing her off.
Not for lack of trying. He freeze breath attacked her immediately.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Her not breaking the machine means.....she didn't get his wrath.
Good thing WW has defeated Superman in wrath mode.
Originally posted by Delta1938
It actually saves her. Superman zips right in front of her, and sends her flying with a backhand.
WW had already disengaged. It wasn't her goal to fight him but to destroy the machine. When they were fighting in 211 she got more hits AND kicked him away from the objective.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Now peers can send each other flying with punches(so her kick isn't that big a deal),
She removed him from the objective and had a chance to destroy the machine but didn't. She was pretty stupid in that comic that's for sure
Originally posted by Delta1938
but I don't think I've seen a peer sending another peer flying with a BACKHAND like he did her. Then he catches her punch, and they kinda talk. And she stops. And she looks better?
Everyone knows hes stronger than her. She looks better when they were actually fighting, not when shes posing with a knife and not when they are talking to each other before or after a supersmack.
Originally posted by Delta1938
It's assumption he as combined with Doomsday's powers.
Sure looks like it.
Originally posted by Delta1938
He did have that look going, but the only actual enhancement that was clear would be the bone protrusions.
If thats true what would be the point? Why wouldnt circe just mind control him then?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Which actually were a factor a whole one point in the fight.
Considering how physically outmatched she is against both Superman and Doomsday, if he had DD's powers stacked on his, she would've been killed despite him being mentally compromised.
Yet that is exactly what did not happen.
Originally posted by Delta1938
And if you mean "a mix of good moments and struggling to survive" then I guess she kept up with him.
I imagine anyone fighting Superman would be struggling to survive.
Originally posted by Delta1938
There were some other outside circumstances(her lasso being taken away for a portion of the fight) but he proved to be significantly above her.
Ya hes stronger than her without being combined with Doomsday. What does this have to do with anything?
Originally posted by Delta1938
She even blocked an attack with her BRACERS and said "Two more attacks like that will kill me!!" or something like that.
And she didn't die and she won the fight.
Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm perfectly fine with it being hyperbole and he wouldn't literally have killed her, but it shows just how blatantly above her he is if she's freaking-out like that by the force even with her bracers. She was really only able to hurt him striking vulnerable areas, which, considering his mind was primitive, he couldn't avoid like he could in a normal fight. She won by lassoing him(she ended-up getting it back) while he was distracting and undoing Circe's spell.
Showing her skill and resourcefulness against a blatantly more powerful opponent.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Well first off, I doubt Superman was in peak condition. He was fed on by Crucifer, and IIRC was out of the Sun for some time, so he wouldn't replenish. What happened to normal humans Crucifer fed on?
Superman isn't a normal human. Crucifer realized he had Superman and didn't drain him so that he could control him. Where is it stated in the comic that Superman was weaker there?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yeah, he turned normal humans into husks. How much of an effect would this have on Superman?
We don't know because Crucifer didn't even try. This entire tangent is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Unknown, but between that and no sunlight for a time, you can hardly argue he'd be in peak condition.
Where is this stated?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Then the vampires. there were only two "vampire buddies" that "sacrificed their lives." Plus Crucifer. But on the vampires. er You mean the standard No-Name kind that Batman handled on his own?
Ya Batman's ****ing badass bro. 2 vampires + Crucifer (who only survived because his heart was hidden away) + Superman can only defeat WW with sucker shits, playing possum and all of the vampires dying. Good job Superman! lol
Originally posted by Delta1938
REALLY? Now, of course they can provide a distraction, but for a Top-Tier like Wonder Woman, especially with that sword that decapitated them? A distraction is all they'd be. Crucifer definitely seemed more a threat, but we're not focusing on him. Although he was the puppet master behind Superman in that fight. Now, in regards to what actually happened in the fight, it was her best performance, as she actually looked fairly even there with him.
Ya she did look even despite being sucker shot twice and also outnumbered 4 to 1. Good job Superman! lol
Originally posted by Delta1938
Fairly even with a mentally compromised, weakened Superman.
Prove Superman was weakened or compromised.
Originally posted by Delta1938
You can argue the sucker punch(which wasn't much of a punch, but surely wasn't pleasant for her)
2 sucker punches.
Originally posted by Delta1938
and "playing possum," and I do agree the vampires were a distraction, but ignoring that and focusing on the actual performance? Yeah, she looks evenish against a weaned, handicapped Superman.
She looked better actually. Got in more hits than Superman too (not counting sucker shots).
Prove he was weakened.
Originally posted by Delta1938
What about during KING OF THE WORLD where the best she could do was stalemate him despite back-up from the JLA? He also tossed her like a ragdoll.And I could bring-up more stuff relevant to the topic.
He tossed her but she was far from being koed and got back up facing him. I can't read the dcans as well. Kinda small.
If someone would be so kind, Wonder Woman's fights against Genocide would be a good instructive for how a serious Diana treats a truly serious opponent. Wonder Woman #31 and 32, IIRC.
That would be more appropriate for the other thread, of course, but I bring it up here to make the point that Wondy has options in life-or-death situations that she does not use ordinarily, and that her tiara is not only a throwing weapon.
She's wielded it as a knife in battles, too.
