Superman takes Wonder Woman about 8 / 10 for me. He is just too much for her to reliably defeat, she admits so herself, and in their many fights over the years, Superman has performed much better against her than she did against him. Im an equal fan of both, no bias either way, but to me Superman just outclasses WW in virtually every single area, and while theyll all be hard fought battles, Supes should win a nice majority of them in the end.
IMO...Diana has the perfect powers to take Superman on. Almost equal strength, better fighter, magical artifacts, and bracers to block his range attacks which would force him to close in on her. With her magical blades and her superior fighting skills, she could potentially land some fatal blows which could put the fight in her favor.
Depending on the circumstances...this fight could go either way.
With CIS on, I would give Supes the edge for the same reasons I would give him the edge against Captain Marvel. Both have been at the hands of a Superman that were trying to kill them and held back because of the love they have for him. Take that respect away, and things could change to possibly favor either of them. CIS plays a huge role when pitting Superman against either imo.
It is worth noting she cut Superman's throat before the control was broken. If she wanted him dead, she could've followed up.
People who say it's 8/10, 9/10, or better... well, the comics don't really bear that out. There's obviously an advantage, but it's also clearly shown to not be that big, and Di does have enough advantages (magic, HtH skill, reflexes, and weapons) that even with her larger number of disadvantages (toughness, strength, range, senses, speed), she can get tactical advantages in some situations, and has two means that can end it quick if she gets an opportunity (either a tiara cut to the right place or a complete lasso bind. Hard to do, but lucky shots with those can tip things).
Originally posted by Q99
It is worth noting she cut Superman's throat before the control was broken. If she wanted him dead, she could've followed up.People who say it's 8/10, 9/10, or better... well, the comics don't really bear that out. There's obviously an advantage, but it's also clearly shown to not be that big, and Di does have enough advantages (magic, HtH skill, reflexes, and weapons) that even with her larger number of disadvantages (toughness, strength, range, senses, speed), she can get tactical advantages in some situations, and has two means that can end it quick if she gets an opportunity (either a tiara cut to the right place or a complete lasso bind. Hard to do, but lucky shots with those can tip things).
Great post! Good insight.
Originally posted by BattleMageIt's definitely a toss up since both of their advantages against each other seems to weigh the same.
Based on dc 5/10
Diana=skill of attack, skill of defense (+bracers), tiara (possibly a one-shot), lasso bind (extremely possible after stunning Superman with a vital shot)
Superman= stronger, ranged attacks (hv and freeze breath), tougher, and vibration defense ability through attacks.
If Diana attacks first then Superman with his reflexes and block or dodge or vibrate and then counter and really mess her up. If Superman attacks first then vice versa for WW.
Superman does have the key to always net him a win though. It's his freeze breath. He can use it just to slow down Diana a tad bit and (now she is significantly slower than him) and then combo her to ko.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sounds more like "suicide" to me rather than "she'd generally lose."I like how Superman's magic weakness evaporates magically. Pun intended.
who said it did?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd imagine a pissed Diana could just fight him straight-up and it'd be almost a toss-up.
when he is or isn't pissed?
--
for me the comics have always shown him to be a notch above her when it really comes down to it. sure. she's one of the most capable at challenging him when it comes to heroes, but i don't necessarily believe that makes her his equal, especially with how we've seen clark when he stops f*cking around.
sacrifice (even though he was somewhat nerfed) and for tomorrow are prime examples of that, imo.
Originally posted by -Pr-I think it's obvious. Painfully so.
who said it did?
Originally posted by -Pr-When he is.
when he is or isn't pissed?
Originally posted by -Pr-Your definition of "notch above" is miles away from mine. In my book, being a notch above doesn't give you 80-90% majority, especially not when you have an exploitable weakness
for me the comics have always shown him to be a notch above her when it really comes down to it. sure. she's one of the most capable at challenging him when it comes to heroes, but i don't necessarily believe that makes her his equal, especially with how we've seen clark when he stops f*cking around.sacrifice (even though he was somewhat nerfed) and for tomorrow are prime examples of that, imo.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I think it's obvious. Painfully so. When he is. Your definition of "notch above" is miles away from mine. In my book, being a notch above doesn't give you 80-90% majority, especially not when you have an exploitable weaknessbluntingthat can (and has) trump(ed) that physical advantage.
then you'd be wrong. her magical abilites do help (and nobody's forgetting them), sure, but i don't think they're enough to turn things in her favour for a majority.
when he's pissed, i think he's more than a notch above, personally.
i don't agree. being a "notch above", can simply mean that she pushed him for his victories (which she would). maybe he doesn't get 80%. maybe he gets 60%. either way i still see him taking a majority from her.
Originally posted by -Pr-I don't think they'd help turn a majority either. I haven't seen her use it to effect a majority. Possibly a split. But combined with everything else she's got, and people thinking it'd still only help in netting her one win (possibly two) is ignorant in my opinion. People routinely cite her lasso/tiara as decisive trump cards against other opponents, e.g., Loki, Sentry, J'onn, GLs, Thor, etc., and somehow Superman -- the one guy who actually has a magic weakness -- gets a free pass. That's just a$$-backwards.
then you'd be wrong. her magical abilites do help (and nobody's forgetting them), sure, but i don't think they're enough to turn things in her favour for a majority.
Originally posted by -Pr-Barely holding back Wonder Woman made it a fight he remembered.
when he's pissed, i think he's more than a notch above, personally.
Originally posted by -Pr-I suppose there's no point in me invoking semantics. I'm more of a 6-7/10 type of guy myself.
i don't agree. being a "notch above", can simply mean that she pushed him for his victories (which she would). maybe he doesn't get 80%. maybe he gets 60%. either way i still see him taking a majority from her.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't think they'd help turn a majority either. I haven't seen her use it to effect a majority. Possibly a split. But combined with everything else she's got, and people thinking it'd still only help in netting her one win (possibly two) is ignorant in my opinion. People routinely cite her lasso/tiara as decisive trump cards against other opponents, e.g., Loki, Sentry, J'onn, GLs, Thor, etc., and somehow Superman -- the one guy who actually has a magic weakness -- gets a free pass. That's just a$$-backwards. Barely holding back Wonder Woman made it a fight he remembered. I suppose there's no point in me invoking semantics. I'm more of a 6-7/10 type of guy myself.
I think in a lot of those matches, though, the speed element is generally a bigger issue than it is in a fight between Clark and Diana. Sure, she can cut him. I'm not going to pretend she wouldn't. I've always actually wondered how the lasso would work against Superman, given the kind of being he's been written as at times. I see her pushing him hard every single time, I just think he has more in the tank in a drawn out battle.
Yes, she did, but I didn't realise we were talking about Sacrifice Superman here, one that wasn't at his most effective (which Rucka stated). Superman can be somewhat angry and fight smart (as he's shown). I was just using a different Superman than yours, I guess.
When Pr said he wins 8/10 i don't hes saying she gets stomped or anything. Like how I sometimes think characters will beat another practically every time but have an extremely hard fight each one. While i get most people use the #/# to see how hard a fight it is, that isn't always the case. Some characters will fight hard and give hell every time and lose every time.
Not sure if I agree in this case or not but that's what i think he meant
^ You described a Beta Ray Bill/Stardust dynamic and nobody says Beta Ray Bill beats him 9/10.
Originally posted by -Pr-A bigger issue for Superman than Diana. And no, I don't take issue with McDuffie's writing there. When he ghost-writes Deathstroke armbarring Superman, then you can feel mad.
I think in a lot of those matches, though, the speed element is generally a bigger issue than it is in a fight between Clark and Diana. Sure, she can cut him. I'm not going to pretend she wouldn't. I've always actually wondered how the lasso would work against Superman, given the kind of being he's been written as at times. I see her pushing him hard every single time, I just think he has more in the tank in a drawn out battle.Yes, she did, but I didn't realise we were talking about Sacrifice Superman here, one that wasn't at his most effective (which Rucka stated). Superman can be somewhat angry and fight smart (as he's shown). I was just using a different Superman than yours, I guess.
And the excuses and prevarications over Sacrifice and Rucka rival Wolverwhiners over Ennis. Reading the actual comic fight and another comic chronicling Superman's own account make it obvious what happened.
I've little interest in revisiting how to read a comic and what happens within the four corners of a page. I'm just posting to say that I think people give Superman a pass on Wonder Woman's magical advantages which makes no sense considering how they're always invoked in every other thread she's in against people who don't even have a magic weakness. And it might be a harsh opinion, but yes, I think that's rucking fetarded.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A bigger issue for Superman than Diana. And no, I don't take issue with McDuffie's writing there. When he ghost-writes Deathstroke armbarring Superman, then you can feel mad.And the excuses and prevarications over Sacrifice and Rucka rival Wolverwhiners over Ennis. Reading the actual comic fight and another comic chronicling Superman's own account make it obvious what happened.
I've little interest in revisiting how to read a comic and what happens within the four corners of a page. I'm just posting to say that I think people give Superman a pass on Wonder Woman's magical advantages which makes no sense considering how they're always invoked in every other thread she's in against people who don't even have a magic weakness. And it might be a harsh opinion, but yes, I think that's rucking fetarded.
😂 Still disagree.
Which is?
I don't think anybody can seriously expect to be able to just forget her magical advantages. It just comes down to whether you think she can apply them enough to the wins required.
Originally posted by jalek moye
When Pr said he wins 8/10 i don't hes saying she gets stomped or anything. Like how I sometimes think characters will beat another practically every time but have an extremely hard fight each one. While i get most people use the #/# to see how hard a fight it is, that isn't always the case. Some characters will fight hard and give hell every time and lose every time.Not sure if I agree in this case or not but that's what i think he meant
Yeah, pretty much.
Originally posted by -Pr-
then you'd be wrong. her magical abilites do help (and nobody's forgetting them), sure, but i don't think they're enough to turn things in her favour for a majority.when he's pissed, i think he's more than a notch above, personally.
i don't agree. being a "notch above", can simply mean that she pushed him for his victories (which she would). maybe he doesn't get 80%. maybe he gets 60%. either way i still see him taking a majority from her.
Was Dianas tiara to Supes throat shot ever stated to be deliberately a glazing shot ? Maybe that particular move was an all attack and only managed a to do temporary damage at its deadliest.
The reason I ask is because some act like Diana could have decapitated Supes if she actually wanted to
Originally posted by paisapower
Was Dianas tiara to Supes throat shot ever stated to be deliberately a glazing shot ? Maybe that particular move was an all attack and only managed a to do temporary damage at its deadliest.The reason I ask is because some act like Diana could have decapitated Supes if she actually wanted to
well i honestly don't think the tiara could have gone deep enough to decapitate. if it was a sword or something, then possibly.
i was surprised to see how quickly he healed from it though.
Originally posted by -Pr-
well i honestly don't think the tiara could have gone deep enough to decapitate. if it was a sword or something, then possibly.i was surprised to see how quickly he healed from it though.
Thats what I thought too, seems to go with the magic vulnerability rather than weakness stance
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ For an instant. Flashing kryptonite for an instant means little to nothing.
Superman has been rendered helpless with brief exposures in the past. But that's besides the point.
I don't believe Superman was weaker than normal much like I don't believe he was more powerful than normal (In the context of cutting loose). I think if he was intended to be in either condition it'd be more obvious -a comment or some such- or we'd at least get a hint.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And if she was pissed?
It wouldn't matter if she was menstruating. She can't take on Superman in a contest of power. He'll break her. Just overwhelmingly stronger.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You described a Beta Ray Bill/Stardust dynamic and nobody says Beta Ray Bill beats him 9/10. A bigger issue for Superman than Diana. And no, I don't take issue with McDuffie's writing there. When he ghost-writes Deathstroke armbarring Superman, then you can feel mad.And the excuses and prevarications over Sacrifice and Rucka rival Wolverwhiners over Ennis. Reading the actual comic fight and another comic chronicling Superman's own account make it obvious what happened.
I've little interest in revisiting how to read a comic and what happens within the four corners of a page. I'm just posting to say that I think people give Superman a pass on Wonder Woman's magical advantages which makes no sense considering how they're always invoked in every other thread she's in against people who don't even have a magic weakness. And it might be a harsh opinion, but yes, I think that's rucking fetarded.
👆
Superman would take it 6-7/10, imo.