Delta1938
True King of House of El
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Indeed.
He might be better served to issue his challenges via private messaging.
I'll be surprised if Pr doesn't say something to him if he keeps posting the way he's been going on for the last two pages or so.
If Pr says anything, we'll cross that bridge when it gets here. The fact is, carter NEEDS the challenge to be public due to his mental gymnastics.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The reverse was shown as well. In fact, if we're going by Sacrifice, Wonder Woman can kill Superman even faster, even after being punched millions of miles away, choked, burned, frozen, down to the use of one strong hand, and with scarcely more than a flick of her wrist.Assuming she's wearing her standard outfit, at least.
Yes, when he's not in his right mind and couldn't avoid the tiara. Too bad for her that he is in his right mind here. If he were in his right mind AND as determined, she wouldn't survive that long.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
There is no mention of that in the issue in which the actual fight takes place.
And Greg Rucka, in an interview which Pr confirmed as legit, himself says that Superman was going all out, trying to kill Doomsday, period.What you're talking about is a follow up issue where Superman relates untrustworthy memories to Lois. Interestingly, people who want to take that issue as gospel seldom relate that Superman himself thinks "I can't even save myself", as he finds his throat being slashed open by Wondy's tiara.
Doesn't matter whether it was in the comic or not, because it's in a canon comic, and written by the same writer no less(of course even if it wasn't Rucka it'd still be canon). And in all reality, it doesn't really contradict Rucka's interview. You citing his interview hurts your argument more than helps it.
And like I said, canon(and under the same writer so no excuse on that), no matter what spin you put on "untrustworthy). And of course Superman couldn't defend against an attack he wouldn't be aware of. There was distance between him and Doomsday, and suddenly Doomsday was there punching his throat. Or elbowing him it seems. Superman thought he was at the Daily Planet and Jimmy was dead, further proving the telepathic illusion he was under.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Your skill with images is impressive, Salsa.
Rightly did I praise you for them.However, what you're saying doesn't make sense in the context of the scene, and certainly not, if we want to adopt Delta's supposed "real life" stance, going by common sense logic.
If you're of the mind that Superman flew Diana to the sun, and you've said you are, then you're assuming Superman was flying with Diana at the rate of several million miles per second.
That's a LOT of forward momentum.
We're shown Superman lose his grip as he is turned aside by Diana's eye gouge;
presumably he gets doubled over by a quick strike to the groin or something similar in the process.
He was traveling like a rocket a millisecond before that gouge and presumed strike and during it at the rate of several million miles a second.
Does it make sense to assume he just stopped dead in his tracks at that point, or that he kept going aways?
No matter how much you protest, the only that makes good sense is the latter; that the momentum of several million miles per second thrust kept him going for at least a few yards past Diana. And his target was the sun. So he's closer to the sun than she was.
So the position when she then rushes him is:
Earth --> Diana --> Superman --> Sun
... and when he punches her with all his might sending her back from the direction she came, it's:
Earth <-- Diana <-- Superman <-- Sun.
Which is exactly what we see.
And, more importantly, the thing that actually makes good common sense.
In fact, to speed Delta's own reply to this thread, we can illustrate in "real life" human terms what happens when an attacker, barreling forward, is turned aside from their rush.
They DON'T just stop dead in their tracks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVbdRdXliw
I know what you're trying to argue, but it doesn't really support your stance, especially since Superman can quickly stop, and there's nothing indicating there was a huge distance covered between when Diana was free and the punch happened. The Sun appears to suddenly move, the lead box doesn't melt, there's no mention of an amp, and the writer seems to say that in his script it never got past Venus. Simplest conclusion is they weren't near the Sun, the art just looks like they were 'cuz the Sun is BIG.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
mmmShould I be given pause that the posters with the most notorious reputations are relative moderates here, while the man who is ostensibly the supreme moderate is [b]the
most extreme?Pr: 10/10
Star428: 9/10
h1a8: 8/10
Zack Fair: 7/10
carver9: 6/10 [/B]
Based on what Pr said to Carter, I believe his take is she can give him a good fight, but ultimately it will be a losing battle every time, without any extenuating circumstances, simply because he's just above her. You look at the fights they've had without extenuating circumstances and that pretty much supports it. Hell, even when he's handicapped, he comes-out looking significantly above her and she gets technical wins due to those circumstances.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'd be interested in seeing how much people think it takes to knock Superman out.Certainly it doesn't take more than Wondy has to bloody Clark,
or knock him away ... as a herald of lesser caliber than Diana herself proved:
Source: Justice Society of America #13, Volume 3
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Dale Eaglesham & Alex Ross
Date: February 2008
That's not the big deal you're making it out to be. The elbow is a lot harder than the fist and has a smaller area, you can produce almost as much power with an elbow strike as a punch(and focused in a smaller, harder area), and Hercules is hitting Superman in the nose, which is comparatively weak. It doesn't really prove anything but Hercules is strong enough to give Supes a bloody nose(with an elbow strike). And before you go to your "that's real world fighting" crutch of a defense, even Pre-DOS, in Superman's worst showing against Lobo(who is stronger than Wonder Woman, and wouldn't hold back like she normally does either) took around a dozen attacks(not all punches, some slamming Superman's head into the environment, but some kicks as well) and couldn't KO him. He's had many fights with opponents stronger than her, in many cases, MUCH stronger than her, and them either failing to KO him, or taking a whole lot of strikes to accomplish it. She certain failed to KO him with her kicks(one a sneak attack, the other him in a vulnerable position) in A LEAGUE OF ONE and couldn't KO him in other instances. Hell, in DOOMSDAY WARS it took Brainiac-Doomsday(who is WAY stronger than Wonder Woman) like 9 attacks(and he used a mind-blast mixed in, too) to finally KO Superman, and Supes was trying to protect Lana and Pete's premature born baby, and unable to properly brace himself. So it wouldn't be easy for her to KO him even if he stands there and lets her hit him.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You're actually illustrating why it's a good idea to have a thread where things like this can be discussed. Your showing here, for instance, is taken from a story called "The 10th Circle", one of John Byrne's JLA arcs.I seriously wonder how many people wrongly think Superman actually knocked Diana out in this encounter and precisely the way you're showing us.
In point of fact, that is only the opening blow of a skirmish between these two (Superman is being controlled by a vampire named "Crucifer" here), and she goes on to fight not only Superman, but several demon-like helpers and the main villain as well. She falls to Crucifer, of course, but acquits herself quite well against Superman himself, not at all what people would think if they're exposed only to that image and nothing else.
I think he was trolling you(but hey, dunno for sure). Anyways, Diana doesn't come-out looking as good as you're arguing if we take context into account. First, Superman is handicapped by Crucifer's control. Second, he's in less than peak condition since he's been fed on by Crucifer and hasn't been able to recharge. Third, outside what Crucifer did when he physically got involved(instead of through Superman), there were a whole two vampires that jumped in, and they weren't all that. Stronger than human? Yes, but not so much that Batman wasn't able to hold his own against a couple. At best they were a distraction. Fourth, the fact that Nudge there helped Wonder Woman. She was able to temporarily break Crucifer's hold over Superman. In all honesty, I think Power Girl comes out looking better than Wonder Woman when she fought a mind controlled Superman in JSA, when you compare the two and all context.
