Where was God on 9/11?

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Faith, by definition, is belief without evidence, and it is the foundation of many religions. Faith fosters an environment, either culturally (where an area is dominated by religion) or individually within a religious person, where irrational acts are more likely to occur because of that faith.

Actually Faith is more of a calculated risk then an actual "leap of faith" or "blind acceptance."

Originally posted by DigiMark007

So I don't intend to insult when I say that religion leads to violence, I merely wish to point out a truth that I see. Because I see blind faith, the kind religions promote, to be a plague upon the world...the kind that creates environments in which acts like 9/11 can occur. Similar events would certainly occur sans faith, but not as many imo.

These are perhaps more acts of ignorance then actual acts of religion and/or faith. You would be fallacious to consider that the events of 9/11 are the center of "Muslim" belief. In fact the minority of Muslims live in the middle east. The rest of Islamic religion (the large rest) live in the far east. So why do we not hear of them? Where is there support for the 9/11? Simple, because the middle east Muslim's are interpreting a part of their scripture differently then the far eastern Muslim's are doing. So one side is acting out of ignorance of the correct way then the other. And because we know that the means do not justify the ends, and the ends to the Terrorists are very selfish, then it would be safe to conclude that the middle eastern interpretation of their scripture is an ignorant one. And out of "warped good" derived action you have the results you see today.

Ignorance (a root of pride) leads to sin, or in this case, hatred/violence.

Originally posted by AOR
Actually Faith is more of a calculated risk then an actual "leap of faith" or "blind acceptance."

Ask a Bible Belt Christian or Muslim extremist to defend their religion without resorting to pure faith. They won't. And question any spiritual person persistently and, however intelligent, it comes to faith eventually. True faith is the kind that "knows"....so its not a risk when they are intuitively sure of themselves through their faith.

Originally posted by AOR
These are perhaps more acts of ignorance then actual acts of religion and/or faith. You would be fallacious to consider that the events of 9/11 are the center of "Muslim" belief. In fact the minority of Muslims live in the middle east. The rest of Islamic religion (the large rest) live in the far east. So why do we not hear of them? Where is there support for the 9/11? Simple, because the middle east Muslim's are interpreting a part of their scripture differently then the far eastern Muslim's are doing. So one side is acting out of ignorance of the correct way then the other. And because we know that the means do not justify the ends, and the ends to the Terrorists are very selfish, then it would be safe to conclude that the middle eastern interpretation of their scripture is an ignorant one. And out of "warped good" derived action you have the results you see today.

Ignorance (a root of pride) leads to sin, or in this case, hatred/violence.

I would never condemn Muslims in general, nor the majority of them. Most are peaceful, so please don't try to turn my words into more than they are. But I have no qualms with attacking their beliefs if I find them wrong. So one sect interprets the writings differently than others, and most are peaceful while only a few are violent. Fair enough. Faith still underlies both, and as I stated before, it creates the environment in which irrational acts can occur more frequently as a result of that faith, which has no evidence and is the single most powerful driving force in many peoples' spiritual lives (certainly the extremists).

Completely disagree with you there Digi.

Those monsters flying the planes had a hatred for anything that the is consider Americanism and capitalism.

They hate us and even if there was no God. They still hate us for what we have and what we believe.

We have what they don't have. Which is FREEDOM. That's why they hate us.

that is about the most self righteously ignorant thing i have heard on this thread. although THIS comes close too {although the above is a result of nationalistic propaganda but the bottom is a result of relegious propaganda}

"Atheism is not caused by reason, but by a kind of cowardly moral escapism."
-Dinesh D'souza

pretty much a lie and an arrogant rationalisation of a wrong point of view.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, it still would have happen. 9/11 wasn't the first nor will be the last time these people will attack us. Clear point: "They hate us". Doesn't matter if we were Buddhist or Atheist or Misc. They hate anything that is American.

Here,religion was use as the scapegoat. Deep down behind all these attacks it's the hatred for us. Why? They're jealous of us. They hate anything that is connected to the US.

Their hatred drove them to the point of complete and utter stupidity and idiocy. That they fail to see their own hypocricy. Case in point. These terrorist hate everything that involves capitalism. However, when they're making those videos featuring Osama. They fail to see that when they bought and use the camera and the tape with which to make the video. They contributed in someway to capitalism.

Go ahead and take away their beliefs....they still going to hate us.

😆 😆 😆

dude please STOP. you are sooooooooo delusional, ur gonna make me crack a rib just trying not to laugh. actually it isnt even funny anymore, you need a reality check.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ushom, your faith in god is misplaced and clouading your better judgement. try having faith in a good human being or your own goodness or happiness instead.

Please, do not allow your mind to wonder and begin making assumptions; I understand that you meant well, but the situation is simple. The thread that I submitted deals with theology, and there are issues about theology that I understand, misunderstand, agree, and disagree with; and my having faith in God has nothing to do with theology. Theology is merely--in some cases--complimentary, while other revelations push my faith to the limit. As I have stated on other threads, my faith in God was something that I was inherently born with; this belief in God was nothing I could touch or quit understand, but I knew--very strongly--that I believed in God. It was only after serving in the Army did I pay attention to my--seemingly natural urge--to pursue God in some way, shape, or form. I studied and prayed (spending roughly 500 dollars in the process). But what really attracted me to religion, Chrstianity more specifically, was prophecy in the Old Testament regarding the coming Messiah and the case for the resurrection. Naturally, I was apprehensive, and only after learning of the Dead Sea scrolls did I learn to appreciate scripture, at least prophecy and the case of the resurrection; theology is something I still have trouble with today, but I remain neutral and continue to study. Often times I saw deeper meaning in difficult Bible passages once I laid aside knee jerk reactions based on emotion. In any case, we can make charges about God and the Bible, but that doesn't change the disposition of the world; the world contains hard working people simply raising families, and others are aborting babies at high school prom dances and cooking dogs in ovens after robbing home owners. Despite my doubts about theology, at times the Bible simply makes more sense than the world we live in.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You make extraordinary claims,

Am I to understand that positive ore negative ???

but then you say, god doesn't do that any more, that way no one can prove you wrong. That is what I mean by convenient.

Well I just told why I believe that God doesn't intefere any longer, if we go by the bible (which I would be the most appropriate in this thread) then God doesn't intefere in mortal life after the death of jesus, as he did before (The plagues in egyptm, The flood, etc.).

Jesus was just a man. He had a revolutionary teaching, but it was not a new teaching. [/B]

Going by the history perspective ore by the Bibliocal perspective.

🙂

Originally posted by ushomefree
Where was God on 9/11?

God was taking a dump, okay. You don't like being bothered while you're using the bathroom, do you? No? That's what I thought.

Also God can't do everything for us. He test us constantly. Its up to us to do the good. Not him. He takes measures after death.

Same place "he" always "is".

Sitting there facilitating both negative and positive in the world maybe.

Maybe sitting there going "When will you lot realise that if I do exist, then I dance to my own tune and that I aint some mascrocosmic janitor to be called upon at will."

"And where has god been in the number of killings since 9/11" is also another pertainant question.

what a load of crap.

Exactry.

It all is.

no, I meant your post.

you think God is gonna swoop down and magically stop all the murders? He will when he reclaims his kingdom on earth, but until then we act on our OWN FREE WILL. God wasnt going to suddenly appear in the cockpit of those airliners and avoid the twin towers.

Nope.
I understood you, that you you meant my post.
I dont belive you understood the sardonicism dripping from it on every level.

The real reason that he (The "God" god as is described by humans) wouldn't, is down the problem he has with the whole 'lack of existance thing'.

so, do you not believe in god, or do you in fact believe in him and just hate him?

Its not as simple as that.

Im technically atheistic when it comes to belief in a single entity capable of judging us/acting on that.

EG: I dont believe in the Bible as a word for word account, yet can see the moral value in some of its parables. I have a conscience and rely on that rather than a guide book (written by men) in making my decisions concerning others.

But i'm a shade or two off agnosticism, generally.

Im definitley angry with the way that religion is used as a device for manipulation constantly and the followers that commit many an actrocity in God's name at some times, yet at others their whole concept of a god is surpressed/forgotten is sake of personal gratification.
And all the illusions that a religion will grant you a special relationship with god the first place, despite god apparently loving all his children etc.
And that prayer somhow gains you an audience with something that is apparently meant to be watching you the whole time?

Theres too much blaming things on/ crediting god with this and that
and not enough looking within and claiming responsiblity for actions for my liking.

And if there is the "godexistsbutwehavefreewill" debate, then its high time that either we quit the praying and get on with it. 😛

So I guess im in the "Open minded, but not about indoctrinations"
"Feel failed by conventional concept" camps.

Hope that answers it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no, I meant your post.

you think God is gonna swoop down and magically stop all the murders? He will when he reclaims his kingdom on earth, but until then we act on our OWN FREE WILL. God wasnt going to suddenly appear in the cockpit of those airliners and avoid the twin towers.

Why make exceptions for a God which is claimed to be infallible and perfectly good? Why is it ok for God to stand by and watch people suffer?

Word.

I'm more benevolent than god... If i was out for a stroll and came across a kid drowning in a pond, i would try to save him. God, on the other hand, would do nothing. I'm better than god.

Originally posted by Storm
If a parent stood by passively while their child was being killed and said "the criminal here has the freedom to make his own decisions and I have not abandoned my child", then most rational adults would regard that parent as either cruel or insane.

Why make exceptions for a God which is claimed to be infallible and perfectly good? Why is it ok for God to stand by and watch people suffer?

But, like the proverbial parent you refer to, he isn't going to hold our hand along the way, he isn't gonna do everything for us. He is gonna let us do what we want to do, he is going to let us choose to worship him, to worship Allah, to worship Satan, or to worship nothing, along with several other choices.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's one thing if the suffering is brought about by God, like if he did something along the way that makes mankind suffer, but all the suffering you refer to is brought about by man. We have brought it upon oursleves. God placed us here with the oppurtunity to prosper and believe in him, to have faith that he is a deity. He sacrificed his only son to save us from our sins.

But, like the proverbial parent you refer to, he isn't going to hold our hand along the way, he isn't gonna do everything for us. He is gonna let us do what we want to do, he is going to let us choose to worship him, to worship Allah, to worship Satan, or to worship nothing, along with several other choices.

It is brought about by him. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

Also, I am sick of hearing the "he sacrificed his only son", that's also a load of crap. Sacrificing means giving up, not letting him feel some pain over the course of 32 years and then having him for an eternity in heaven to rule besides him. That's called a ****ing promotion, not a sacrifice.

Originally posted by Bardock42
He gave us the free will and he made us imperfect.

It is brought about by him. Sorry to burst your bubble there.