What makes a character a good character?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The title pretty much says it all. (Apologies, Digi, if this is a repeat thread.)

What, to you, makes a character good? What makes you a fan of particular characters? If you have any example characters then that would be good too.

Is it their origins? Is it their tragedies? Is it that they're easy to relate to? Their character design even? Or is it simply that they beat this person or did that thing? (A lot of the time to the outside observer this last reason does seem like the reason some characters garner fans.)

On the flip side, what do you think makes for a bad character?

good character-bad ass attitude.cool costumes.mentaltiy.

bad character-do gooders-corny costumes and origins

Originally posted by llagrok
Does a character HAVE to be complex?

What Villain can you think of that is so great because of his incredible complexity and has developed a lot as well? You really seem to focus a lot of the negative parts about Apocalypse, more specifically the cases where is portrayed as a guy who gets his kicks off by dictating others.

And again this isn't a thread about whether or not Apocalypse is a good character, it's about what makes a character good. If you want to explain what makes a good character, in your opinion, and use Apocalypse as an example of a good character that's all well and good, but he came to mind to me alongside SBP, Vulcan and Sentry, in my opinion.

Doom, Magneto before Morrison and then Marvel editorial made him a continuity mess, Mystique.

On another note though, often it's the dynamic between a villain and hero that can add to their character, Magneto-Xavier, Doom-Mr F.

However sometimes is better when villains have no connection to heroes, because it can become to forced, especially if the villain was a pre-existing character.

When villains become villains for reasons that have nothing to do with the hero, it often makes them more interesting. I mean just look at the The Rouges. None of them have any real backstory with the Flash, but they are still compelling characters in their own right.

Originally posted by llagrok
Magneto's so called complexity is just borderline inconsistency...

I knew you'd say something about Magneto when V brought him up as a complex character.

Lulz.

This came purely out of spite on account of everyone here attacking Apocalypse's character. With all bias aside, Erik is one of the most complex villains ever created who's filled with depth.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
most villains are interested in power. Apoc isn't really, sure if no one is fit to defeat him, he'll gladly rule. But he's just as ok if he is proven to be less fit than those who challenge him. His ultimate goal isn't domination by himself, rather that the fittest, whether that be him or not, rise and the weak are removed from the genetic pool.

that's pretty unique motivation

You're sugar-coating bullshit.

Originally posted by batdude123
With all bias aside, Erik is one of the most complex villains ever created who's filled with depth.

I was gonna reply to this statement but you just did it for me 😛

Originally posted by batdude123
You're sugar-coating bullshit.

Originally posted by batdude123

This came purely out of spite on account of everyone here attacking Apocalypse's character. With all bias aside, Erik is one of the most complex villains ever created who's filled with depth.

Not according to Grant Morrison who turned Magneto Xorn, into a crazy drug addict who just wanted to kill people for no real reason other than his own insanity.

Originally posted by grey fox
Have to agree, for once I'd like to see someone become evil just for the hell of it.

"Why am I blowing up this Orphanage Stupendous man ? Why because it makes me feel good , that's why !"

Screw neglect and 'My parent are deeeeeeeead !!!!' , lets have a villain whose a dick just for the sake of it !

Cyborg is that guy.

Originally posted by Avlon
Cyborg is that guy.

Originally posted by Grimm22
However sometimes is better when villains have no connection to heroes, because it can become to forced, especially if the villain was a pre-existing character.

When villains become villains for reasons that have nothing to do with the hero, it often makes them more interesting. I mean just look at the The Rouges. None of them have any real backstory with the Flash, but they are still compelling characters in their own right.

Joker
Doom
Magneto
Bullseye

etc.

However, I do agree that it can become forced at times, which is unlikeable.

Just look at Hush. Granted, Batman was the pre-existing, but Hush Returns was all forced "this is more personal than ever before"... ugh.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Too many clones.

Take for example two Wolverine clones, X-23 and Daken. (NB not that I'm saying either is the epitome of "good character."😉

One has been made into a relatively compelling and valid character in their own right, the other is Daken. X-23 has evolved from simply being Wolverine's clone, both figuratively and literally. The latter has basically relied on being a duplicate of the predecessor with no real justification for existing at all.

(Additionally Daken has a retarded character design)

Originally posted by willRules
I was gonna reply to this statement but you just did it for me 😛

What I said is the truth.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Not according to Grant Morrison who turned Magneto Xorn, into a crazy drug addict who just wanted to kill people for no real reason other than his own insanity.

Okay?

Problem with Magneto (Hell the entire problem with the X-men series) is that it's a cluster-**** of horrible retcons, bad writing and general confusing bullshit. I like to think its because their inherently that bad, but will grudgingly admit it has a lot to do with the fact that they were Marvels poster boy for the Nineties.

Also Xorn is awesome , really the whole character design and idea is unique and masterful.

What they did to it however, was uncalled for.

I thought Malefic was a great villian,and Jason Todd was shaping up to be a gfreat nemesis of the Bat family.

...but yeah,the personal deal can and has had utter failure.

Originally posted by grey fox
Problem with Magneto (Hell the entire problem with the X-men series) is that it's a cluster-**** of horrible retcons, bad writing and general confusing bullshit. I like to think its because their inherently that bad, but will grudgingly admit it has a lot to do with the fact that they were Marvels poster boy for the Nineties.

Also Xorn is awesome , really the whole character design and idea is unique and masterful.

What they did to it however, was uncalled for.

You mean having Wolverine cut his head off? Lulz.

Originally posted by batdude123
You mean having Wolverine cut his head off? Lulz.

Not just that, the whole shindig.

All this 'Mwhahah I really evil Magneto whose dressed up like a good guy and am now using all your special ed kids to take over the school mwahahaha' bullshit , hell i'm not even considering the retcon --which was even stupider-- , overall they had a great character whom they shat on. Turned him into magneto (What a surprise 🙄 ) and then killed him off suddenly.

I never really cared for Xorn, but I'm relatively glad that Morrison's take on Magneto being a completely evil drugged-up lunatic was retconned from being the real Magneto.

Magneto has never been truly evil, he and Xavier are two sides to the same coin, same destination, different road.

I don't care for Xorn either, I mean they used him as a cheap exit. But the character idea and design I love. His brother is also kickass.

I'm going to revive my thread, but instead of the general question, I'd like people to name a character they think is a good character and why, or alternatively a character they think is a bad character and why.

Jonn:Uniqe origin,rich history to pull stories from,awesome archnemesis and fairly interesting powerset,with a deep character.

Mongul:Crap origin,crap character development,basicallly the epitome of fail.