Hercules vs Wendigo

And the ownage carries on smoothly:

Originally posted by jinzin
If you're talking about that being the last page of the fight that Wendigo was a part of for that comic.. It was a fight that lasted 10 pages. Wendigo was in four of them, and out of those four entire pages he only wasn't getting owned in ONE of them.. that is by NO MEANS "doing good" nor "better"..

It surely means doing "better" than the ones where he outrigth "lost" in less than a "single page" to both guys who are weaker than "Hulk". And he didnt lost to those two together, no sir. He lost to each one alone.

Are you in a retarded rocket science class? Hum?

Originally posted by jinzin
Again look at his feats at the time. Gladiator was CLEARLY an attempt at making a top tier character even then.

Are you conceading he wasent exactly a top tier, like he later became ?

Good boi. An attemp is one thing, being actually one is another.

Originally posted by jinzin
Colossus also took down Arkon in a few blows. Something Hercules failed to do with help.. and cheap shots.

O`really?:

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35813eb.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35824ss.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35837lk.jpg

As far as help goes, you must be talking about some other encounter.

As far as cheap shot goes, why are you complaining, boi? Didnt Logan did the exact same in one of the examples we are discussing? Oh yes he did:

http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture11005gk.jpg

Btw, you bastard. I told you NOT to rip off pages again!

Originally posted by jinzin
And he was tossing around 100 ton sentinals like sandbags..
If you think 100 tons is beyond Colossus' capability to lift then you're way too far beyond help.

Ben Grimm can hold hundred of tons. He has held at least a section of the Golden Gate bridge. And that still doesnt make him a top tier. Know why? He doesnt have better feats.

"Cl 100" doesnt translate into an accurate 100 tons. Never did.

If giving erroneus interpretations about everything is the best you can do, im going to have a laugthing riot with you. Oh wait, im already there.

Originally posted by jinzin
[BHey, you want to keep using your bias to ignore what happened, or pretend that something else took place, be my gues[/B]

You claimed Wolverine won especifically at h2h. And all i see is two panels with the beginning of the figth and the end. Nothing in the middle.

Explain to us, how you can tell the way the figth went, other than making things up on your own.

Originally posted by olympian
Hercules fougth the Wrecking Crew two more times, in his second long sting in the Avengers, under Harras and Epting.

He beat them alone.

And that time where Thor was pretending to be the victim so Hercules could regain confidence? Is a win.

Issues? I don't recall this, not saying your wrong just don't remember it

Not really especially since the Crew were still in fighting form and the Crew would have killed Hercules if Thor didn't interfer.

Originally posted by olympian

I dont know if you know, but the figths where Hercules had the most advantages over Hulk, are exactly the ones where he wasent depowered and used his grappling skill.

Not to say he would win, maybe. But he certainly does better. And hes got something like two figths like those.

Yes I know, but mortal/immortal Hercules line has been blurred over the years now

Against Hulk or Wendigo? Sure I can see him taking a few wins from Wendigo or Hulk, but majority? Naaaa...[well depending on the Wendigo host]

Originally posted by jinzin
[B]Abomination, I'm fairly certain, doesn't use claws or have them a large majority of the time. He relies almost entirely on brute strength for his fights against Hulk; his healing factor is also piss poor compared to the feats of Wendigo and I can't think of one decent example of speed he sports. He couldn't even keep pace with Marrow and Angel.

not like wendy has 'loads' of speed feats, and certain versions/hosts have literally NONE to boast of. you keep referencing some 'generic' version of the character it seems. yet one has been scared into NOT fighting by feral wolverine. that same one i think was put down unconscious by a holding back wolverine and some bullets. another version had to team WITH wolverine to defeat HULK. i said near the outset it depends on the host and that certain hosts would cause herc a lot more grief and tip the odds a lot closer to even or maybe even POTENTIALLY in wendy's favor.

Minotaur.. Doesn't impress me when he's having trouble dealing with DD.

i'm guessing we're talking about different versions. the one i'm talking about was at least cl100 and gave herc everything he could handle.

I'll admit I'm not keen on this Sloth either so my retort is based entirely on what you've shown me; that said...
At no point do I see this Sloth character land an offensive attack on Herc. Being able to beat up Masterson Thor is one thing, but I don't exactly equate that to being able to beat on regs Thor.

still shows his strength. overwhelming someone with thor's power is clearly pretty damn impressive. and perhaps the claws are not as sharp, for . . . some reason as wendy's are but they were never a threat in ANY way. it would require a truly devastating shot from wendy to actually incapacitate herc like you're suggesting. herc was stabbed in the stomach by arkon, i think (with one of his lightning bolts), and showed no ill-effects. went on to beat arkon down if memory serves. the she-hulk 'gutting' was done while she was distracted. she was easily avoiding the claws and smacking him around until she started screwing around. her skill<<herc. if this is bloodlusted herc, he would NOT be screwing around and a bloodlusted herc ko'd his daddy zeus.

When we see the claw strike it's apparent that they're not doing any real damage; that right there is a bit of a contradiction to the comparison with Wendigo who can cut Hulk open.

hulk never TRIES to avoid them. that wouldn't happen against herc.

But regardless of that, there's no point where Herc looks like he has to avoid being hit by the claws. Sure it's nice for him to ram through one character before he puts up a defense, but does that mean he's going to do that to Wendigo? Every showing of Wendigo I've seen dictates a heavy no on that one.

and i've seen him refuse to engage a near-berserk wolverine. and i've seen it taken out by bullets. not all wendigo's are created equal.

Secondly, dude, Hulk's made a career of fighting and beating the crapola out of large monsters akin to the beasts that Herc and Thor have fought, and sometimes even the same creatures. Wendigo doesn't fall into the same category of fodder as those others as I've said before. His ability to force Hulk into teamwork on almost every occasion they've met is a testiment to that. Or so I should think. 😕

hulk/wendy fights are generally undecided (as are so many hulk fights) and again, there was a time when wolverine and wendy had to team against hulk. and just because wolverine was present doesn't mean hulk actually 'needed' his help or was 'forced' to work with wolverine. it's rather a testament to the fact that hulk and wolvie are working for the same goal -- namely stop wendigo. like one is gonna sit out and watch the other fight? 😕

Herc's durability isn't really being underrated here though. I'm fairly sure that everyone (at least me if not) has come to a reasonable conclusion that KOing Herc with brute strength alone would be a "Herculean" feat for Wendigo. But then again I'm not exactly arguing against his brute force and energy resistant durability alone. It's been clearly demonstrated that immortals on his level can be cut and that it effects their performance.

it would take a devastating cut to take him out. he could easily handle a LOT of punishment. as i said, it depends on the host. some have proven fast enough to land that blow, others have no speed feats at all. there is still no evidence at all of a foe of this type EVER defeating herc. wendy IS a different breed. some hosts might take a split from him or potentially take even more than that. others would lose most of the time.

now i really AM done with this thread. (gotta tourney to win. 😉 )

Errrr? Hulk's partners when he fights against Wendigo have bailed him out of bad situations before, like Captain Marvel saved his arse from being choked to death 😬

Originally posted by -K-M-
Errrr? Hulk's partners when he fights against Wendigo have bailed him out of bad situations before, like Captain Marvel saved his arse from being choked to death 😬

weren't they underwater or something? 😕

no real indicationhe could choke hulk on land which is where i'd presume this fight takes place. not even sure hulk was GOING to drown there. he may have been able to punch wendy out of the water, or broken the hold or something. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
weren't they underwater or something? 😕

no real indicationhe could choke hulk on land which is where i'd presume this fight takes place. not even sure hulk was GOING to drown there. he may have been able to punch wendy out of the water, or broken the hold or something. 😬

Yeah and? Considering it was Hulk who wanted to fight in the water

Actually that was the start of the fight, as Hulk instantly tried to get him away from Rick. They were fighting for awhile underwater, and Wendigo hit Hulk with a claw strike causing him to scream out in pain, and then Wendigo put him in a choke hold and he had a look of terror in his face. Captain Marvel then shot Wendigo from behind and flew Hulk out of the water as Hulk was in serious trouble.

Also what issue where you refering to when Hercules beat the Wrecking Crew solo?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yeah and?

🤨

and he had a look of terror in his face. Captain Marvel then shot Wendigo from behind and flew Hulk out of the water as Hulk was in serious trouble.

look of "terror . . .?" i'd love to see that . . . hulk's been in plenty of similar situations. you're speculating he couldn't have gotten out of it himself. and wasn't that a banner controlled-hulk again in that fight?

Also what issue where you refering to when Hercules beat the Wrecking Crew solo?

418/419 maybe? thor let's himself be beat up to restore herc's confidence, then herc proceed to shatter thunderball's ball, basically one-shots piledriver and bulldozer then starts to beat down wrecker. thor smacks wrecker away at the very end, but the point was made pretty clearly. i think thunderball even comments that piledriver and bulldozer have concussions or something as they all gathered to take off. they met in the avengers as well but i can't recall the issue #.

Originally posted by olympian

O`really?:

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35813eb.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35824ss.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35837lk.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
not like wendy has 'loads' of speed feats, and certain versions/hosts have literally NONE to boast of. you keep referencing some 'generic' version of the character it seems. yet one has been scared into NOT fighting by feral wolverine. that same one i think was put down unconscious by a holding back wolverine and some bullets. another version had to team WITH wolverine to defeat HULK. i said near the outset it depends on the host and that certain hosts would cause herc a lot more grief and tip the odds a lot closer to even or maybe even POTENTIALLY in wendy's favor.

The Wendigo in Spiderman didn't get put down by Wolverine, he smashed Wolverine but ended up falling due to blood loss from the bullets (i.e. Wonder Woman durability).. The fact that Wolverine couldn't really avoid his blows is just another testiment to his speed I should think.
The Wendigo in Fanfare didn't "have" to team up with Wolverine. Their fight wasn't going one way or the other before Wolverine got involved.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm guessing we're talking about different versions. the one i'm talking about was at least cl100 and gave herc everything he could handle.

Originally posted by leonidas
still shows his strength. overwhelming someone with thor's power is clearly pretty damn impressive. and perhaps the claws are not as sharp, for . . . some reason as wendy's are but they were never a threat in ANY way. it would require a truly devastating shot from wendy to actually incapacitate herc like you're suggesting.

Originally posted by leonidas
herc was stabbed in the stomach by arkon, i think (with one of his lightning bolts), and showed no ill-effects. went on to beat arkon down if memory serves. the she-hulk 'gutting' was done while she was distracted. she was easily avoiding the claws and smacking him around until she started screwing around. her skill<<herc. if this is bloodlusted herc, he would NOT be screwing around and a bloodlusted herc ko'd his daddy zeus.

As for the thunderbolt.. I don't really think that was a legitimate stab.. Even if it did penetrate Herc's torso wouldn't the wound caurterize as soon as it exploded? Not really an accurate example of how Herc would deal with blood loss.

Originally posted by leonidas
hulk never TRIES to avoid them. that wouldn't happen against herc.

Originally posted by leonidas
and i've seen him refuse to engage a near-berserk wolverine. and i've seen it taken out by bullets. not all wendigo's are created equal.

Originally posted by leonidas
hulk/wendy fights are generally undecided (as are so many hulk fights) and again, there was a time when wolverine and wendy had to team against hulk. and just because wolverine was present doesn't mean hulk actually 'needed' his help or was 'forced' to work with wolverine. it's rather a testament to the fact that hulk and wolvie are working for the same goal -- namely stop wendigo. like one is gonna sit out and watch the other fight? 😕

Originally posted by leonidas
it would take a devastating cut to take him out. he could easily handle a LOT of punishment. as i said, it depends on the host. some have proven fast enough to land that blow, others have no speed feats at all. there is still no evidence at all of a foe of this type EVER defeating herc. wendy IS a different breed. some hosts might take a split from him or potentially take even more than that. others would lose most of the time.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by leonidas
now i really AM done with this thread. (gotta tourney to win. 😉 )

Originally posted by olympian
Jin, your memory is deceveing you. Snoop brough it "hasent he been beaten", and i said, "only if you count the off panel win". Then you brougth this one up, because it was an on panel example on how he "almost beat him", according to none other than you.
So do me a favour and stop whinning. Anyone can read the thread for themselves to see how here you are trowing the sand in everyone`s eyes.
The ones who can read, at least.

Originally posted by olympian

My preference? It goes to two other showings where i see what it happens and a midget gets tossed around.

Oh.. I'm "trowing" sand am I? What sand would this be? Proof?...

Originally posted by olympian
That doesnt change the nature of my question. Whatever may you describe it, he took Hercules down once, while Hercules took him down more than once.
So, did he "almost beat him"?

And what it DOES change is the nature of your original MISrepresentation of the even in question. Since all you saw was the "midget getting tossed around" then it was my duty to call to attention the rest of what happened.

Originally posted by olympian
It was certainly most of the figth, since Logan went down more often, unlike Herc who went down once. And the result was what? Hercules not being injured?
So, since my interpretation is more accurate, given how Logan WAS tossed down more often than otherwise, using your own logic, Hercules won, didnt he?

You don't of course realize that Wolverine only "went down" once.. oh hey! That's just as many times as Hercules "went down"! 😱

Yes... most of the fight indeed. pfffft.

Originally posted by olympian
Yeah. Being bitchlaped across the room, sure doesnt mean getting "tossed around".
lolz, lolz.

Originally posted by olympian
Ah, see how you concead you exageratted? And here is the difference of someone who aknowleges what the two characters have done in a particular encounter and another who exagerattes.
*drinks*

Originally posted by olympian
But Wolverine isent Roughouse, is he? If using feats of similiar characters count, can i use Hulk`s feats? Or Thor`s? Or the Forgotten One`s?

Lol what the hell does that first part even mean. The point of my examples clearly went over your head.
And, considering that the only person out of that group that's similar to Herc is Thor and it's an example I USED... well... 😬

Or of course we could always use Herc as an example of himself.. On the floor unconcious when he doesn't have a shield to hide behind. 😐

Originally posted by olympian
Does that change the nature of time was still only minutes for the encounter? No.

Originally posted by olympian
As it is, no matter what you slide in, its still less impressive than being taken down with teamwork that consists in the likes of Hulk and someone else. But keep pretending you can see it for the sake of Logan as top tier. Its most amusing.

How I "slide" it huh?
The Wendigo in question was already going down before Hulk jumped in.. so your rationality is flawed anyways..

I think the only one even mentioning Wolverine and notions of him being in top tier is you..

Originally posted by olympian
With Hulk`s help. Your narrowed vision may not see Hulk, but i guarantee that Hulk was there. Not only that but its the sickiest thing that you post ONLY the panels where wolverine attacks, and not Hulk. Im sure it isent to give any direction that Wolverine alone was enough to wear him down, oh no!

Yeah that must be it. 🙄

Here maybe you can post where Hulk is in these panels helping Wolverine....

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6775/hulk181ctg9.jpg

Again you're having trouble with comprehending the point of the matter. Wendigo was in the process of losing a fight with Wolverine BEFORE Hulk jumped in. You keep insisting that Wolverine needed Hulk's help to finish Wendigo off, but there's NO PROOF.. absolutely NONE to confirm or support that notion.

Originally posted by olympian
WTF indeed. What planet do you live in, when a teamwork is needed to wear down one guy, its equalled by just one chap making a finish move?
Did you failed at sports too?

Did I "failed" at sports? No, actually I'm a state placer in wrestling, a state champ in track, and a division placer in long distance...
"Did you failed" at school?

Originally posted by olympian
Yeah, her mistical power source is internal. Its what makes her transform. And she transformed into a goddamn "Wolverine". That surely must be amazingly greater than withstanding for some time the combined attacks of Hulk and Wolverine or the Alpha Fligth and Sasquatch.

Wendigo never with stood the combined attacks of Hulk and Wolverine AT ALL.. When they did combine to fight him he got owned from one page to the next.. talk about exaggeration.

And Alpha Flight and Wolverine? You’re talking about a Mauvais Wendigo hybrid who had a supreme understanding of magic to the point that Doc. Strange was weary of him and quite frankly the strongest incarnation to ever exist.

Originally posted by olympian
Hey, Hercules also got a mystical power source. Its what makes him being strong as he is, since birth. Going by your dumb logic, that should be enough to win against Wendigo. Because you know, its mystical.

Originally posted by olympian
This also means kids, that anyone whose power source is mystical in nature will have an automatic advantage over Wendigo, just because. Someone better call Hellcat! Too bad the fact that Wolverine won against the same guy, overrides that...."fact".

His durability sucks against evisceration.. We already went over that...

Originally posted by olympian
We all know what i was refering to. Are you playing dumb for the sake of it, now that your argument got more holes than a certain cheese? Lolz.

Like you did by saying "Wolverine almost beat him"?

Want a Pac Man for you as well?

And my argument has holes?

Your argument falls face first on the very premise it's built upon.

Any Wendigo that fight Hulk might beat Herc but any Wendigo that goes down to Wolverine or Sabes certainly can't take Herc?
Uh-huh... Except that Herc has lost to Wolverine, Hulk as lost to Wolverine, and a guy with enhanced reflexes and fighting ability who stalemated Herc in strength lost to Sabretooth. Or that the Wendigo that this thread has specified WAS losing to Wolverine before Hulk jumped in to help finish Wendigo off. Hulk accredits that Wolverine did in one hit what Hulk himself failed to do. Or the fact that just losing to Snowbird doesn't mean anything for host 2 compared to host 1 since Cortier never fought Snowbird, hence never beat her, hence giving no proof one way or th other that he would fair any better than the second host did.........

If my argument looks like swiss cheese yours is a damned fishnet!

Originally posted by olympian
And the ownage carries on smoothly:

Originally posted by olympian
It surely means doing "better" than the ones where he outrigth "lost" in less than a "single page" to both guys who are weaker than "Hulk". And he didnt lost to those two together, no sir. He lost to each one alone.

You don't grasp the concepts of different types of durability do you? Being weaker than Hulk doesn't mean a damned thing. Wolverine was weaker than Hulk in his first appearance and he was still beating Wendigo back. Why? because the damage he produces has little to nothing to do with strength.

See your argument beckons one to believe that Wendigo was either holding his own or winning against Wolverine before Hulk jumped in during Incredible 181... He was doing neither. He was losing to Wolverine alone.
In Uncanny he lost to a stronger, faster, more instinctive and better Wolverine who wasn't lax and talking trash.
There's nothing "better" about his showing against Wolverine in 181 by any means.
And Snowbird? Again, doesn't prove anything as Courtier never fought her and succeeded where the second host failed. She's only a bad showing because you insist she's a bad showing.. that's not proof.

Originally posted by olympian
Are you in a retarded rocket science class? Hum?

Originally posted by olympian
And he didnt lost

Nope, it's not the remedial course, so I guess we won't be seeing eachother in class. 😉

Originally posted by olympian
Are you conceading he wasent exactly a top tier, like he later became ?
Good boi. An attemp is one thing, being actually one is another.

Originally posted by olympian
O`really?:

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35813eb.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35824ss.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers35837lk.jpg

As far as help goes, you must be talking about some other encounter.

Yes... Really. 😐

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5692/arkongl5.jpg
"thanks fair crystal, thy assistance is ever welcome."
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2006/arkon2hf9.jpg

And all that was after Arkon had stormed a heavily guarded temple:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3563/arkon3tc7.jpg

Of course.. you WOULD know this if you didn't suffer from such a horrible reading comprehension problem...

Hmmm
With you thinking all that happened in that Herc/Wolverine tussle was Wolvie getting tossed around....
That Wendigo fought to the last page of Hulk 181...
And this; thinking that the fight ended two pages before it was over with Arkon KOed...

it would appear as though you might be right about someone ripping pages out of your books.. It would seem your comics are cut as short as the buses you used to to ride into school.

Originally posted by olympian
As far as cheap shot goes, why are you complaining, boi? Didnt Logan did the exact same in one of the examples we are discussing? Oh yes he did:
http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture11005gk.jpg
Btw, you bastard. I told you NOT to rip off pages again!

Originally posted by olympian
Ben Grimm can hold hundred of tons. He has held at least a section of the Golden Gate bridge. And that still doesnt make him a top tier. Know why? He doesnt have better feats.

Originally posted by olympian
"Cl 100" doesnt translate into an accurate 100 tons. Never did.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20agillity%20and%20speed/thCOLOSSUSBack.jpg

Originally posted by olympian
If giving erroneus interpretations about everything is the best you can do, im going to have a laugthing riot with you. Oh wait, im already there.

Erroneous?

Herc tossed Logan around (as if that's all that happened).
Wendigo was doing good.
Herc didn't have help and he did KO Arkon...

😂

If making crap up without a leg of proof to stand on is then best you can do, don't bother waisting anymore of my time.

Originally posted by olympian
Sure, here is my bias:

You claimed Wolverine won especifically at h2h. And all i see is two panels with the beginning of the figth and the end. Nothing in the middle.
Explain to us, how you can tell the way the figth went, other than making things up on your own.

It stands to "reason" that it was h2h. IF those scans are of the beginning and the end of the fight (which you're not even in a place to say, it very well may be the middle and the end of the fight) we don't see foreign objects in either one of them. Wolverine beat Herc given the other bricks he's taken down, it's not surprising. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
🤨

look of "terror . . .?" i'd love to see that . . . hulk's been in plenty of similar situations. you're speculating he couldn't have gotten out of it himself. and wasn't that a banner controlled-hulk again in that fight?

The entire fight is posted in the Wendigo section under the host "Larry"

Lulz and your not? It was, but I take it you didn't see the fight between Hulk and Captain Mar-vell now did you? As this was not normal Banner controlled Hulk

Originally posted by leonidas

418/419 maybe? thor let's himself be beat up to restore herc's confidence, then herc proceed to shatter thunderball's ball, basically one-shots piledriver and bulldozer then starts to beat down wrecker. thor smacks wrecker away at the very end, but the point was made pretty clearly. i think thunderball even comments that piledriver and bulldozer have concussions or something as they all gathered to take off. they met in the avengers as well but i can't recall the issue #.

Lulz, talk about taking things out of context. First off Hercules was terrified of the Crew which he voiced several times in the issue, and then they fought in the issue and beat him pretty bad and it was Thor that saved him as they were going to kill him. So you saying Hercules solo'ed the Crew is wrong and taken out of context. Thunderball said they were "punchy" as in dizzy from the blows maybe have a concussion, but the Hercules hit he did on them was when they wern't even hitting him they were holding him. So not really that impressive as your making it out. Also Hercules hits Wrecker, but he was literally unphased by it and Thor didn't hit him away at the end, he summoned an energy storm and then they left...with all their members still standing, and Wrecker was still sure he could win. 😬

Originally posted by jinzin
You don't grasp the concepts of different types of durability do you? Being weaker than Hulk doesn't mean a damned thing. Wolverine was weaker than Hulk in his first appearance and he was still beating Wendigo back. Why? because the damage he produces has little to nothing to do with strength

I love this argument. Love it.

Just because he could hurt Wendigo with his claws, you keep discounting Hulk`s credit in this figth. If the roles wer reversed in that last page and Hulk was the one to trow the last punch, would you give the nod to Hulk as well? When it took the teamwork of those two to wear down Wendigo?

And you try to use a rat ass argument and have it at the exact same level as showings go, to a Wendigo that fell quickier to both Logan and Snowbird alone?

Assasine.

Originally posted by jinzin
He was losing to Wolverine alone

And here it is the crux of the whole thing. He was losing to Wolverine alone but still lasted one page, figthing BOTH? If he was that weak, Hulk jumping at him rigth after the three panel worth of cutting would be enough to down him. But no. He took the cutting. He took Hulk`s attack afterwards. He had Logan jump at him and blind him, for Hulk to attack again, and then Logan made his finishing move.

This isent the end of all bricks showings, but you compare THIS to Wendigo losing, in a single page to Logan alone? And Snowbird?

Fail.

Originally posted by jinzin
In Uncanny he lost to a stronger, faster, more instinctive and better Wolverine who wasn't lax and talking trash

But i disgress.

He lost to a Wolverine without backup. He also lost to Snowbird alone who used a simple animal form. You keep forgetting that we arent talking about only Wolverine here. Every single showing of this Wendigo kind of pales next to the others.

Originally posted by jinzin
And Snowbird? Again, doesn't prove anything as Courtier never fought her and succeeded where the second host failed. She's only a bad showing because you insist she's a bad showing.. that's not proof

Explain to me how it isent a lower showing than the others. Try.

And try without the idiocity that you and King are bawling about her mystical nature power. She didnt cast any magic, she used her internal power to transform into an animal. Thats what she does. Just like Superman`s natural power source is the sun. It doesnt mean that when he punches someone, he leaves the person with a sunburn, does it?

A simple animal. Who didnt sported a mystical shield, or balloney like that. Who didnt cast anyhing on Wendigo.

If you keep sporting otherwise Hercules and co, wins this. Easily. They all have a mystical source for theyr power.

Originally posted by jinzin
Nope, it's not the remedial course, so I guess we won't be seeing eachother in class. 😉

They dont let us of the advance class talk with the retard ones.

Wich is crude if you ask me 🙁

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes... Really. 😐

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5692/arkongl5.jpg
"thanks fair crystal, thy assistance is ever welcome."
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2006/arkon2hf9.jpg

And all that was after Arkon had stormed a heavily guarded temple:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3563/arkon3tc7.jpg

Of course.. you WOULD know this if you didn't suffer from such a horrible reading comprehension problem...😉

Is it?

In the same panel where Crystal went to assist (because as you say, Hercules couldnt take him down), I dont see Hercules ever in any kind of problem with Arkon.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5692/arkongl5.jpg

Hes getting beaten. On his own. All she did was to interrupt a figth for them to move on to the next move. You know this, if you have obviously read the book.Crystal even mentions how "i will help, because its what teameates do, even tho, you know Hercules is cleary owning his ass".

Of course Hercules would thank her. If you read that whole run, you would see Hercules flirting with her almost every issue. Its called being cordial with the ladies, nothing new to the character in question. Thats how he steals pootang under Logan`s nose 😎

In contrast, Hulk didnt just showed up in the *end* while Logan was dominating against Wendigo. He was there the whole duration of the figth, punching the guy as much as Logan was attacking the same opponent. In fact, Logan was the one show who showed up when the other two wer already punching each other for something like four pages.

Once more, you show your inability to compare showings. It must be cronical. And you know what they say about cronical: better contact your doctor ASAP.

Loved that temple trashing feat, btw.

Originally posted by jinzin
And that applies to Colossus how again?
Considering he DOES have better feats..

Than who? Ben?

He doesnt. He only got that off panel "win" against Abomination, and all the suggestion there is, is that it was the whole X-Men team that took him down.

Originally posted by jinzin
Right, because you understand more about the intention of the characters and their powersets than Marvel does..

Tells the pottle to the kettle.

While i feel tempted to rall on shiat like the Handbooks to make that point moot, No. It is because i can read showings and you cant. At least unless the character in question is Wolverine, wich in that case you will go on "how he gets stronger".

Wich is assasine in a debate.

Originally posted by jinzin
Erroneous?..

Yes. Watch:

Originally posted by jinzin
Herc tossed Logan around (as if that's all that happened).

So you concead he was tossed around? You didnt, before. Yes, from Herc`s part, he tossed the runt around. Wich was what you asked me about. "What did Hercules do"?

He tossed him around.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wendigo was doing good...

uh, huh. "Better" than the other two showings. Wich is fact. On any board.

Originally posted by jinzin
Herc didn't have help and he did KO Arkon..

Odd. You wer the one who brougth this showing up and i didnt said he knocked him. It couldnt even be his porpuse even, since the Avengers needed Arkon to tell him what happened to the place where they met.

As for the help, i already took care of that up there.

Originally posted by jinzin
How can I tell you the way the fight went?
All I can tell you is what we see.
Wolverine vs. Herc 1on1
Facing one another.
Wolverine landing a blow.
Herc not landing a blow.
Herc reeling from Wolverine's blow.
Wolverine victorious.
Herc unconscious...

It stands to "reason" that it was h2h. IF those scans are of the beginning and the end of the fight (which you're not even in a place to say, it very well may be the middle and the end of the fight) we don't see foreign objects in either one of them. Wolverine beat Herc given the other bricks he's taken down, it's not surprising. 😬

Can you explain how a bone claw who isent backed up by Adamantium didnt just broke against Immortal Hercules? Low Showing? Popularity issue? Stupidity?

You keep saying how he beat bricks on Herc`s level and all i can see are minor examples. Its such a deja vu again.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Lulz, talk about taking things out of context. First off Hercules was terrified of the Crew which he voiced several times in the issue, and then they fought in the issue and beat him pretty bad and it was Thor that saved him as they were going to kill him. So you saying Hercules solo'ed the Crew is wrong and taken out of context.

King, why dont you just ask the scans of the whole thing, before saying its taken out of context? Im sure someone must have them in store.

Hercules was suffering a confidence problem and Thor put himself into harm`s way on porpuse for Hercules to come on his senses. When he saw Thor being beaten (on porpuse) he went nuts, and put them down alone, fairly quickly at that and busted some of theyr weapons into dust in the process.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Thunderball said they were "punchy" as in dizzy from the blows maybe have a concussion, but the Hercules hit he did on them was when they wern't even hitting him they were holding him. So not really that impressive as your making it out.

Hercules didnt punched the ones that wer holding him still. He just lifted the arms and had them knocked heads.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Also Hercules hits Wrecker, but he was literally unphased by it and Thor didn't hit him away at the end, he summoned an energy storm and then they left...with all their members still standing, and Wrecker was still sure he could win. 😬

Hulk is confident that he can win against anybody. That doesnt make him true.

That doesnt really change that they couldnt do a single thing when the duo decided to figth back. Plus, just because someone isent knocked out, it doesnt mean they wont look bad or that they didnt lost. How often do people this strong get knocked out in a head on battle? Fairly little.

I think its more odd that you hold Snowbird in a "wolverine" form in higher esteem.

.........you don't know much about wolverines do you? She did not take the actual form of a normal wolverine.

First you ask me if i know about Wolverines, like they are that comic book impressive, but rigth after you make a comment on how the form she took was somehow more impressive than a regular Wolverine.

Wich is it? Proof, please.

Originally posted by olympian
First you ask me if i know about Wolverines, like they are that comic book impressive, but rigth after you make a comment on how the form she took was somehow more impressive than a regular Wolverine.

Wich is it? Proof, please.

........well the fact she far bigger then a wolverine is proof enough...........wolverine are extremely small...........she was quite big far bigger then a real wolverine............

Originally posted by -K-M-
Issues? I don't recall this, not saying your wrong just don't remember it

I would have to look for it, since i dont know by heart. If you can acess to Hercules tread in SHC, Thorion post it there.

It was during Hercules beardless tenure before he lost immortality, i think. If i can get it, ill post it, but i only saw it, i dont own it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not really especially since the Crew were still in fighting form and the Crew would have killed Hercules if Thor didn't interfer.

"Kill"? When? Afer he pounded on them, or when they had the confidence of watching him as a feeble former shadow?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes I know, but mortal/immortal Hercules line has been blurred over the years now

That blurred line only started when guys like Jurgens wer writting him as not depowered over "Thor" when pretty much at the same time guys like Busiek wer writting him wih the knowlege of loss of power over "Thunderbolts and "Avengers".

During the H4H days, however, his status was clear. It was fresh out of his Avengers last tenure where he lost power, of Hulk`s figth in the one shot and his 90`s mini.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Against Hulk or Wendigo? Sure I can see him taking a few wins from Wendigo or Hulk, but majority? Naaaa...[well depending on the Wendigo host]

Wendigo. And that is exactly what i have been saying all along. It depends on the Wendigo in question. The Wendigo doesnt have always the same level of showings.

I surely wouldnt have Hercules take a majority over the one that fougth Savage and Sasquatch at the same time. But i dont find ludricious one bit for him to take a majority over the one that didnt lasted more than a page of worth against either Wolverine and Snowbird. And its not even the point of selling them short, its how the showing is actualy short in measure compared to the others.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
........well the fact she far bigger then a wolverine is proof enough...........wolverine are extremely small...........she was quite big far bigger then a real wolverine............

Proof enough of what? That the wolverine form was powered up? From what? She didnt cast any magic for it to happen. She transforms into what she desires thanks to the mystical power source she wields that is connected to her hometown.

And she chosed to transform into a "wolverine". Whereas on another ocassion, with backup she went into a more dangerous shape: Wendigo himself. Surely the degree of levels here are exactly he same for both versions

If someone can just post the page, go ahead. They surely compared her to an actual Wolverine, regarding the size issue, if that is revelant at all.

Originally posted by jinzin
Here maybe you can post where Hulk is in these panels helping Wolverine....

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6775/hulk181ctg9.jpg

How about posting the whole figth?

Then anyone can look at it and realize why you hang up to that page alone like your life depends on it.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/uxm140pg17.jpg

Can anyone show me what else did she do other than using her mystical power source to transform into an actual wolverine? Im aware that in the last instance others showed up, but without actually figthing and that Logan was cold for a moment by a sneack hit. But this doesnt scream as impressive as Hulk and Sasquatch or Captain marvel or Wolverine and the Alpha Fligth in a lenghty all out battle...odd.

There is even a mention that physical force can overcome the Wendigo (even tho i wont go far as saying its all of them) for moments, no matter if it is in Canada or not.

............real wolveriens are not white nor are they any were closes to that sizes...........