Thanos with heart of universe vs Classic Beyonder

Started by Galan00711 pages
Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

I still don't think Beyonder matched the feats Thanos did. This however, doesn't change the fact that Beyonder was written at the time to be truly supreme in Marvel.

imo, God vs. God = stalemate, and that's what I'm going with. 🙂

King Kandy Senior Member

Nah, he was the supreme being of his own universe. He was missing a multiverse, a drop of water. That makes Thanos one drop of water ahead of him.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by King Kandy
Nah, he was the supreme being of his own universe. He was missing a multiverse, a drop of water. That makes Thanos one drop of water ahead of him.
Good point.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by King Kandy

THOTU gives the wielder absolute control over the marvel Omniverse.

Beyonder is part of the marvel Omniverse.


And whoever said Post-retcon Beyonder is not part of the Omniverse.

Beyonder was NOT part of the Marvel reality originally though.

So that's a big NO!

THOTI would never have had control of the original Beyond realm.

Originally posted by King Kandy

This is very simple stuff here.


Not when you say Beyonder loses cause he's a comic book character.

I'm still scratching my head on that one.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007

I still don't think Beyonder matched the feats Thanos did.

This however,
doesn't change the fact that Beyonder was written at the time to be truly supreme in Marvel.


I still don't know what Thanos did that outshined Beyonder.
Originally posted by Galan007

imo, God vs. God = stalemate, and that's what I'm going with.


That's where I ultimately landed at.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Nah, he was the supreme being of his own universe.


Beyonder was the supreme being of his own universe,
and when he entered the Marvel universe,
he became the supreme being of that just as well.

Originally posted by King Kandy

He was missing a multiverse, a drop of water.
That makes Thanos one drop of water ahead of him.


Beyonder was missing one what?

A meaningless Multiverse that includes NO cosmic hierarchy, or cosmic powers of any kind?

The ONLY significant Multiverse, is the infinite Prime Multiverse.

That's where all the primary power in the Marvel Universe is at.
That's why that's the LT's official area to survey.
That's why it's from Eternity that everything in the Omniverse flows.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than the Prime Multiverse combined.

All the other Multiverses are really inconsequential,
since they contain NO Eternitys, NO Infinitys, No comsic hierarchy of any kind.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder was NOT part of the Marvel reality originally though.

So that's a big NO!

THOTI would never have had control of the original Beyond realm.

True.

As long as Beyonder was in the Beyond realm, he'd be safe from Thanos' frenzy - for the very same reason Death/Warlock were...

They all exist, or were outside of, time/space:

Or perhaps because Beyonder personifies the Beyond realm, he'd be safe from absorption - even if he were within the prime Multiverse? I don't see why not. *shrugs*

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
True.

As long as Beyonder was in the Beyond realm,
he'd be safe from Thanos' frenzy -
for the very same reason Death/Warlock were...

They all exist, or were outside time/space:

Or perhaps because Beyonder personifies the Beyond realm, he'd be safe from absorption - even if he were within the prime Multiverse. *shrugs*


Good point.

But imo,
Beyonder would simply not be absorbed, because Thanos wouldn't be able to do it.

Supreme Being vs a Supreme Being is a stalemate by default.

The Great Galen Restricted

I'm undecided now, hmm this is a tough one but I do wonder...is it possible Beyonder could depower universal artifacts regardless of there status?

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good point.

But imo,
Beyonder would simply not be absorbed, because Thanos wouldn't be able to do it.

Supreme Being vs a Supreme Being is a stalemate by default.

Agreed.

I was just throwing a new idea out there.

Beyonder himself is the entirety of the Beyond realm, [which is outside of time/space]. So it could be possible that even if Thanos were more powerful, he simply would not be able to absorb Beyonder, because he, as a character, is outside of all. Since Thanos never showed the ability to absorb beings from the 'outside', there isn't really anything to disprove that idea.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007

Agreed.

I was just throwing a new idea out there.


👆

Originally posted by Galan007

Beyonder himself is the entirety of the Beyond realm, [which is outside of time/space]. So it could be possible that even if Thanos were more powerful, he simply would not be able to absorb Beyonder, because he, as a character, is outside of all. Since Thanos never showed the ability to absorb beings from the 'outside', there isn't really anything to disprove that idea.


If that were the case, that'd be true, so I agree with your scenario.

The thing is brother G,
we forget that Beyonder was not just outside of time/space,
Beyonder was literally completely disconnected from the Marvel Universe according to Shooter.

Like another Marvel company all it's own that decided to cross-over into mainstream Marvel.

That's the best way to define Shooter's description (interview) by paraphrasing it.
(this was confirmed on panel by Shooter also as we know)

So unlike the many locations outside of time/space now withIN the Omniverse,
which are still part of the Marvel Universe, (withIN the Omniverse)

The Beyond Realm was not part of the Marvel Universe, at all.

That's the difference.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

If that were the case, that'd be true, so I agree with your scenario.

The thing is brother G,
we forget that Beyonder was not just outside of time/space,
Beyonder was literally completely disconnected from the Marvel Universe according to Shooter.

Like another Marvel company all it's own that decided to cross-over into mainstream Marvel.

That's the best way to define Shooter's description (interview) by paraphrasing it.
(this was confirmed on panel by Shooter also as we know)

So unlike the many locations outside of time/space now withIN the Omniverse,
which are still part of the Marvel Universe, (withIN the Omniverse)

The Beyond Realm was not part of the Marvel Universe, at all.

That's the difference.

That's why I said he was outside of "all". 😛

The Great Galen Restricted

Well thats all good and such but can Beyonder possibly depower Thano's artifact?

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007

That's why I said he was outside of "all". 😛


stoned
Originally posted by The Great Galen

Well thats all good and such but can Beyonder possibly depower Thano's artifact?


Originally posted by Mr Master

Supreme Being vs a Supreme Being is a stalemate by default.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well thats all good and such but can Beyonder possibly depower Thano's artifact?
It's not really an artifact per say - more of an energy source than anything.

At any rate, it'd be mighty hard to depower an 'infinite' power source - even for Beyonder.

Stalemate.

The Great Galen Restricted

Well couldn't Beyonder simply remove the artifact from it's source thus nulifying its application. I also wonder if Beyonder could simply create his own artifact several times more powerful then THOTU.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007

It's not reallyan artifact per say - more of an energy source than anything.


👆

Originally posted by Galan007

At any rate, it'd be mighty hard to depower an 'infinite' power source - even for Beyonder.


Only if one's infinity is greater. (levels of infinity) 😛

But in this case, this is infinity in the absolute sense on both sides.

So they will inevitably stalemate for ever. 😄

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by The Great Galen

Well couldn't Beyonder simply remove the artifact from it's source
thus nulifying its application.


The source of power is THOTI.

To remove it's energies,
one would have to re-write what the true OAA/God created,
and that one is basically impossible.

For sure, even for Beyonder.

Originally posted by The Great Galen

I also wonder
if Beyonder could simply create his own artifact several times more powerful then THOTU.


There's a sensible argument imo that could allude to Beyonder being > THOTI.

But I know THOTI, and I respect what it is,
and I know it made Thanos the almighty supreme being of Marvel in the absolute sense.

So I must settle with a stalemate.

King Kandy Senior Member

Saying that Beyonder is not part of the marvel Omniverse is lunacy. He was published by marvel and is therefore part of marvel. The Marvel Omniverse=everything related to marvel, including Beyonder.

King Kandy Senior Member

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder was missing one what?

A meaningless Multiverse that includes NO cosmic hierarchy, or cosmic powers of any kind?


No, he was missing the prime multiverse. He was everything outside of the prime multiverse. Thanos was everything outside AND inside. Even if Beyonder was a quintillion times more powerful, the fact remains:

Quintillion plus one>Quintillion.

JerseyMage Junior Member

I think its possible the beyonders universe was infinite, it could be a countable or uncountable infinity. In the uncountable case, the size of the primeverse would actually make no difference! No matter how many primverses are added to the "outside" of the beyonder-verse, the uncountable infinity sized verse would remain strictly greater.

Look up set theory and infinite cardinals to understand how mathematicians measure inifinities.