Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You wanted to know when you said Carnage would go down to a gutting? Right here: "And yes, Symbiotes can't tank evisceration." Yes, the host with the internal organs and guts underneath the symbiote. And if they were eviscerated (your own word), then internal organs are being removed. This is English. A symbiote suit on its own cannot have internal organs removed or guts spill out. It has none. Only the host can. Host has some. This is English. This isn't an argument. You wanted to know when you said Carnage would go down to a gutting? Right here: "And yes, Symbiotes can't tank evisceration."I never used, or even once stated, the belief that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" or that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom." You accused me of such, I dismissed it unilaterally at first. And never said either of those notions once. Otherwise, you'd be quoting them. You projected such statements onto me. I forgive you.
This isn't a hard question. Nor did I tailor it to be. It's a simple question: [b]When you first read that issue, did you really think carnage didn't get run over by the subway train?
Yes or no? What is the reluctance? [/B]
English... like you said... do you speak it? I'm really beginning to wonder if you really don't understand the point of my statement or if you're just trolling at this point...
I NEVER said Carnage would go down to a gutcheck, you trying to twist my words (and twist badly at that) from a comment made against symbiote durability to cutting attacks is just laughable... it really is... or it would be if it wasn't so utterly sad.
You TRIED to use the myth to your advantage.. and did THAT badly too... I DID quote you doing just that... though I understand that you didn't like it.
I'm answering your stupid question honeslty.. the world isn't made of black and whites and you're a fool to suggest otherwise.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Moot? Carnage's strength advantage over ST is comparatively similar to Abomination's strength advantage over Luke Cage percentage wise, give or take a few. I seriously don't think we should so easily dismiss this.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001I don't doubt he has the ability, just that he'll resort to using it... he usually.. doesn't.
There shouldn't be any doubt that Carnage has the superior agility. His powers are formed after Venom's, who's powers in turn are shaped after Spider-Man's powers. While Carnage's agility and reflexes may not be on exact par with Spidey's, common sense should tell you that Carnage ought to have the quicker movement here.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001this isn't a wrestling match, it's a fight... when Carnage is completely susceptable to Creed's claws being a more skilled fighter is much more an advantage here than being stronger.
Really, the only thing going for ST is his HF. While I know ST to be better in combat skills, I just can't see how it can compensate for the huge strength gap that's in Carnage's favor.
Originally posted by jinzinI understand the point of your attempt was to qualify it post-facto. And it was a brave attempt to salvage not being proven wrong. You're purporting that this is what you really meant: "And yes, Symbiotes[' costumes/suits] can't tank evisceration." Problem is, when you insert that qualification, you completely strip the sentence from making any sense. Because evisceration = removing internal organs. Symbiote costumes don't have internal organs that are removable. Accordingly, in order to avoid an absurd result, you have to read it as "And yes, Symbiotes cant tank evisceration." When you asked me when you said such a thing like "Carnage would go down to a gutting" . . . that's it. Right there. It is, indeed, plain English. Trying to insert further qualifications like "quick" doesn't change that post. Ultimately, it's a small point. And I forgive you. Just don't accuse me of straw-manning when that's clearly what you stated.
English... like you said... do you speak it? I'm really beginning to wonder if you really don't understand the point of my statement or if you're just trolling at this point...I NEVER said Carnage would go down to a gutcheck, you trying to twist my words (and twist badly at that) from a comment made against symbiote durability to cutting attacks is just laughable... it really is... or it would be if it wasn't so utterly sad.
Originally posted by jinzinNo. Not once. I never said even once that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom." I never said even once that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom." You projected it entirely onto me because it's an easy myth to bust. I'm sorry, you were incorrect. Indeed, I dismissed it. And me saying Carnage roughly equal to Venom is the exact opposite of the myth "Carnage > Spidey/Venom together." It's clear. Stop accusing me of ponying up either statement.
You TRIED to use the myth to your advantage.. and did THAT badly too... I DID quote you doing just that... though I understand that you didn't like it.I'm answering your stupid question honeslty.. the world isn't made of black and whites and you're a fool to suggest otherwise.
Is that a yes or a no? When you first read that issue, did you really think carnage didn't get run over by the subway train?
Originally posted by jinzin
Dude.... Ms. Marvel couldn't capitalize on a massive and much more impressive strength advantage against Sabes, Rogue couldn't do it, Sinister's supermen couldn't do it, killpower couldn't do it, holocaust couldn't do it with AOA neither could Colossus, She-hulk or the Starbrand... friggin WENDIGO couldn't make use of it... If they couldn't to that how the hell is Carnage going to with a considerably lover strength level? 😬
All I can say is, PIS? I've never read those face offs, so I really can't say. However, there shouldn't be any reason why they couldn't. Wendigo not capitalizing on his against ST sounds like pure writer's poo, and are just hugging on wolvie's nuts and any others nuts who are wolverine related.
Originally posted by jinzin
I don't doubt he has the ability, just that he'll resort to using it... he usually.. doesn't.
Look at any one of his fights, he stands trades punches, or lets his tendrils do the work for him.. he hardly moves like..say spiderman.
in terms of sheer speed Carnage offers no real advantage here though.
I think I'm satisfied with this rebut.
Originally posted by jinzin
this isn't a wrestling match, it's a fight... when Carnage is completely susceptable to Creed's claws being a more skilled fighter is much more an advantage here than being stronger.
I agree with this, but then I don't agree. Personally, I feel Creed moving in close could also present an opportunity for Carnage to apply his strength and lend him the advantage. I suppose it works both ways here.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I understand the point of your attempt was to qualify it post-facto. And it was a brave attempt to salvage not being proven wrong. You're purporting that this is what you really meant: "And yes, Symbiotes[' costumes/suits] can't tank evisceration." Problem is, when you insert that qualification, you completely strip the sentence from making any sense. Because evisceration = removing internal organs. Symbiote costumes don't have internal organs that are removable. Accordingly, in order to avoid an absurd result, you have to read it as "And yes, Symbiotes cant tank evisceration." When you asked me when you said such a thing like "Carnage would go down to a gutting" . . . that's it. Right there. It is, indeed, plain English. Trying to insert further qualifications like "quick" doesn't change that post. Ultimately, it's a small point. And I forgive you. Just don't accuse me of straw-manning when that's clearly what you stated. No. Not once. I never said even once that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom." I never said even once that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom." You projected it entirely onto me because it's an easy myth to bust. I'm sorry, you were incorrect. Indeed, I dismissed it. And me saying Carnage roughly equal to Venom is the exact opposite of the myth "Carnage > Spidey/Venom together." It's clear. Stop accusing me of ponying up either statement.Is that a yes or a no? [b]When you first read that issue, did you really think carnage didn't get run over by the subway train?
[/B]
All you're doing is trying to equivocate a random statement I made in regards to the symbiote to your strawman on what you wanted me to argue... It's ridiculous...
And it isn't even close to being a legit argument...
You used the myth to further your agenda in this argument, and you did it three times "I'm sorry, you were incorrect".
Like I said it's not my fault you walked over your own points and I already explained this subway nonsense to you...
^ Nope. Just responding to your initial demands to show you where you said certain things. And you did. Qualifying them post-facto doesn't make the sentence work. It's plain dictionary English. You know what evisceration is. And I see now that you're essentially reduced to mere "nuh uh's." No more post-facto qualifications. Good.
How can I use the myth that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" or "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom" when I never said such a thing? When I specifically argued that Carnage is roughly equal to Venom, moreover? You projected. Again, that's a demonstration that you're either accidentally mixing up arguments or surreptiously straw-manning me. Denial is tough.
You never answered whether upon initial reading, whether you thought Carnage wasn't run over by the subway cars. It's just a yes or no...
Originally posted by Starscream MIt matters to me. And it's a simple question. It proves genuity to me and rebuts any sort of presumption that he changed his mind to simply suit an argument (which inherently calls into question the underlying rationales now offered).
it doesn't matter what he first thought...what matters is what he thinks now after giving the matter some consideration
Also, Carnage isn't a ventriloquist. nono
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
All I can say is, PIS? I've never read those face offs, so I really can't say. However, there shouldn't be any reason why they couldn't. Wendigo not capitalizing on his against ST sounds like pure writer's poo, and are just hugging on wolvie's nuts and any others nuts who are wolverine related.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001lol.. I agree here too, though I feel Carnage is dangerous due to other reasons than a strength advantage.
I agree with this, but then I don't agree. Personally, I feel Creed moving in close could also present an opportunity for Carnage to apply his strength and lend him the advantage. I suppose it works both ways here.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Nope. Just responding to your initial demands to show you where you said certain things. And you did. Qualifying them post-facto doesn't make the sentence work. It's plain dictionary English. You know what evisceration is. And I see now that you're essentially reduced to mere "nuh uh's." No more post-facto qualifications. Good.How can I use the myth that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" or "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom" when I never said such a thing? When I specifically argued that Carnage is roughly equal to Venom, moreover? You projected. Again, that's a demonstration that you're either accidentally mixing up arguments or surreptiously straw-manning me. Denial is tough.
No I didn't.. I NEVER said as much, again that'd be you equivocating apples and oranges.. I mean I like your attempts to word twist here but it's just not working. Symbiotes can't tank evisceration that doesn't mean I think that Carnage can't stand up to a gut shot that much was clear when I was arguing with Sam... You read into it and got something else? Doesn't surprise me.
You can use it badly as stated before... You tried to use you kept using it and then you went on to continue using it... lol.
^ That's what you posted. "And yes, Symbiotes can't tank evisceration." And "evisceration" = gutting. Symbiote costumes can't be eviscerated (no internal organs to remove). Hence, "Symbiotes" =/= symbiote-costumes. You asked when you stated such a thing as Carnage goes down to a gutting, that's where you said it. It's my answer. Deny the meaning of the words. Their your words. It isn't an argument. You straw-manned.
I never even used it once. I never even stated either notion once. I never once stated "Carnage > Spidey/Venom." I never once stated "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom." What's the issue here? I mean... it's obvious I never relied on the myth because my statement was "Carnage is roughly equal to Venom." You projected.
And still no response to my question. Hmph. You'll continue to act like you didn't say what you said, that I said things I didn't say, and won't even answer a simple "yes/no" question: Upon initial reading, did you think Carnage wasn't run over by the subway cars? I mean... you won't even quote my question anymore...
^ Nobody will argue that Carnage is invincible and could never be eviscerated. Certainly not I. I'm just showing jinzin where he stated such a thing as "Carnage would go down from being gutted." And I responded to his demand by showing him the statement he made. This presentation rebutted his presumption that I was putting words into his mouth.
Originally posted by jinzin
How can you call PIS on approx half of Sabretooth's fighting career?
Fighting bigger tougher, stronger opponents is part of his personality and he has the powers to do it... it's a testiment to how he fights against people with strength advantages.. and that'd be effectively.
And you don't see anything wrong with that? I certainly do.
Originally posted by jinzin
lol.. I agree here too, though I feel Carnage is dangerous due to other reasons than a strength advantage.
Well, obviously Carnage has other weapons of choice.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That's what you posted. "And yes, Symbiotes can't tank evisceration." And "evisceration" = gutting. Symbiote costumes can't be eviscerated (no internal organs to remove). Hence, "Symbiotes" =/= symbiote-costumes. You asked when you stated such a thing as Carnage goes down to a gutting, that's where you said it. It's my answer. Deny the meaning of the words. Their your words. It isn't an argument. You straw-manned.I never even used it once. I never even stated either notion once. I never once stated "Carnage > Spidey/Venom." I never once stated "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom." What's the issue here? I mean... it's obvious I never relied on the myth because my statement was "Carnage is roughly equal to Venom." You projected.
And still no response to my question. Hmph. You'll continue to act like you didn't say what you said, that I said things I didn't say, and won't even answer a simple "yes/no" question: [b]Upon initial reading, did you think Carnage wasn't run over by the subway cars?
I mean... you won't even quote my question anymore... [/B]
Everyone else knew and understood what I was referring to, you're the only one who didn't... It's not me straw manning that would be YOU trying to equivocate my words into an argument I never made and you know it. Simple as.
No you didn't use it once, you used it thrice lol.
As stated, not my fault you walked on your argument, or got so revved you used that myth in the first place.
Because I already answered your stupid question, if there was more to that answer I would have put it here.. there isn't... Starscream already basically said exactly what matters here.. I've answered it NOW that I've thought about the issue you're asking, upon my initial reading.. well again I already answered what my thoughts were.
^ Nah. Appeal to imaginary masses now? Evisceration means removing internal organs. Can't do that to symbiote costumes. Ultimately a minor point that you refuse to let go despite how plainly the English language asserts itself. Next time, don't straw-man.
I never used "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" or "Carnage beats Spidey/Venom." I never once stated either of those propositions. Indeed, I argued that Carnage is roughly equal to Venom. I'm sorry, but screaming and stamping your foot down about myths that nobody even brought up in this thread doesn't mean that we were all using that myth. You're not that self-important that we are all a reflection of your thoughts. You projected, plain as.
So your answer is Yes? You initially thought that carnage wasn't run over by the subway train? Interesting. As long as you do not deny that in your reply, I'll accept that as your genuine answer to my question...
f$%&!!! no one is saying a damn f#$@#ing thing about the symbiote having guts or being eviscerated!! get that through your head you bn repeating the damn same thing for half of this thread get the F@#@ over it!!...
sabe is not going to remove organs from the costume but from the host sooner or later!!
damn i feel like reported you for constant trolling.. 😠
to everyone else i am sorry especially the mods..😮