1) jinzin: This be some high stacked horsepoo right here. Let's track this "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" myth. Around pages 4-6, here you are, bringing it up on your own out of the blue. Because apparently you don't want anybody making any sort of argument that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" > Sabretooth. And to this projection onto me, I replied that such a myth isn't necessary (I literally dismiss it), by stating Carnage being roughly equal to Venom is enough:
Originally posted by jinzin
I can't honestly think of a reason to justify that rationale that isn't based on the Carnage>Spiderman/Venom team-up myth. He just hasn't done what's needed to prove as much imo.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Carnage doesn't need to be > Spiderman/Venom to beat Sabretooth. Roughly being equal to Venom is enough.
Originally posted by jinzinSo what happened here? You projected a reliance on that myth entirely and unprompted. AND I DISMISSED THAT MYTH RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
And I didn't say Carnage needed to be>Spidey/venom... I'm just saying that my first reaction was under the assumption that he was when I read the title of the thread in spite of that notion being a myth and contrary to comic fact AND what I know, so it's not hard to see why people are giving Carnage the edge so easily here... But the fact is going by fights and feats Carnage ISN'T even at Brocks level.
2) Then around pages 8-9, Wild Shadow and I start arguing over whether Carnage is even at Venom's strength level. To which I replied, SOLELY on that individual notion, that he is, and to HIM, I say that's partly evinced by him going "toe-to-toe" with Venom and Spiderman. Am I anywhere relying on the myth that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" or trying to insinuate that the "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" myth means Carnage > Sabretooth? Did I even once state that Carnage beat both Spidey/Venom? Hell, no I am not. Of course, you decide to interject on this by projecting that myth onto me AGAIN:
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the suit stole the genetic pattern of the spider hence its spiderman base line strength then it bonded with eddie which combined its strength of him and doubled it.. eddie has said it himself that is how the sym works.. which is why he would lift weights without the help of the sym so it would then multiply it later on.. so carnage sym should only have their added strength and his own since that is how the sym works minus carnage mutated sym.. which to me has yet to show anything near 30 tons.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So Carnage's original symbiote being spawned from Venom gives the Carnage symbiote, Venom-class strength genetically. And that disproves Carnage's roughly 30-ton raneg, how... ? Never mind the fact that he's gone toe-to-toe with Venom and Spiderman multiple times on-panel?
Originally posted by jinzinNever mind the fact that you're wrong on Carnage having only faced Spidey/Venom once. He did it twice in the original Carnage storyline. He sorta does it at the end of Maximum Carnage. He does it again at The Trial of Venom. He does it again in Venom vs. Carnage IIRC. And the end result? I STILL haven't suggested that "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" so that he must beat Sabretooth.
Carnage only ever took Venom and Spidey at the same time.... once. And he hightailed it before it became a real fight. Venom has stalemated or beaten Carnage by himself pretty much every time since.
Spiderman himself AND Scarlet have done solo work with Carnage.
3) Now moving on, here we are at pages 10-11 and in response to your straw-manning of me that Carnage has no clear advantages over Sabretooth, I tell you once again, only on the issue of STRENGTH, he does have an advantage (which by the way you agreed to later on!) Did I suggest that the strength advantage alone evinced by his fights means "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" > Sabretooth? Did I even suggest that Carnage beat Spidey/Venom once? Hell no, I do not:
Originally posted by jinzin
The only "clear advantage" is one that you've imagined which is based on ignoring clear weaknesses of the symbiotes, while boasting advantages they don't possess.... I guess if Carnage was everything you claimed he was just now it would be one thing.... But.... He isn't..
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
There are several things I claim of Carnage. And I'm wrong on these claims? So... Carnage isn't stronger, i.e., superior to Spidey+Venom's application of brute strength? He isn't just as agile? He isn't more durable to piercing, i.e., literally bullet-proof? He doesn't have comparable damage soak with his malleable durability+recuperative abilities? And he doesn't use tendril attacks? Newsflash: you're wrong.
Originally posted by jinzinSo you ended up arguing with me over Carnage's strength advantage for NOTHING.
Now: The ONLY REAL evident advantages that Carnage has AGAINST SABRETOOTH are strength, range . . .
4) And by page 12 forward you're already straw-manning me entirely by accusing me of stating that "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" or that Carnage has "beaten" Venom/Spidey together multiple times. And still... have I even at this point lent ANY sort of credence to the myth that "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" at the same time? Have I once even said that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom" at the same time? Hell no, I do not:
Originally posted by jinzin
The only reason why Venom was brought up by me was to disprove the myth that Carnage>Venom and Spiderman.
To which you tried to convince us all that Carnage has beaten Venom and Spiderman "multiple times" and his roughly equals with Venom.... In spite of Venom kicking his ass a majority of the time.
Then you wanted to bring him back into this debate because according to you he uses hack and slash meathods against Carnage in their fights (ignoring their rarity compared to him just pounding on Carnage.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0And what follows is pages upon pages of denial and twisting. It's laid out right here. Not once did I assert "Carnage > Spidey/Venom." Not once did I assert Carnage beat Spidey/Venom. Not once did I assert that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom," so Carnage > Sabretooth. Any times I brought up their encounter, it was in response to YOU bringing it up, or in rebuttal to the idiotic notion that Carnage's strength isn't roughly equal to Venom's. It is. And you completely agreed even though you tried to argue with me on it at first! This is a completely isolated notion that has nothing to do with any reliance on those fights as suggesting that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" > Sabretooth. I NEVER SUGGESTED THAT.
Why did we stop with the summary format? It was definitely a nice change of pace. Dude, you and you alone were the only one who brought up "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman." You were the first person to mention Venom in the thread. I never said, nor do I see anybody in this thread argue "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman > Sabretooth" until you started bringing it up. YOU BROUGHT IT UP.
jinzin: The rest of your farces have been exposed. You tried relying on the notion that Cletus' face scratch didn't heal to downplay the notion that symbiotes can heal damage done to their hosts. Several times you threw that scan and the needle scan at me trying to suggest that. And that myth got busted. Sharply. Both the symbiote's malleable durability + recuperative abilities help the host tank direct damage. This is why they are able to have the fights they have.
And now you're struggling to deal with Carnage getting run over by the subway train. An instance of proof that ABSOLUTELY evinces that both his malleable durability and recuperative abilities allow him to, not only survive mangling, but survive catastrophic mangling. And when you first read that, did you really think that "Oh, we never see Carnage/Cletus clearly get mangled (never mind the scream and the sounds and the mangled mass of symbiote that squeezes out), so maybe he escaped and it isn't a high durability/recuperation feat?" Did you really think that? That's an honest question. Truly, did you really believe that when you read the comic?
Of course, this all wraps neatly back and ties directly to you also relying on Sentry ripping Carnage in half! To which we all replied, "And Sabretooth would fair better? How does this prove Carnage's capacity for slashing/hacking is vastly lower than Sabretooth's since Sabretooth would be killed too?" Then of course you started hootin and hollerin about Sabretooth healing from being reduced to mince-meat. Off-panel. And I'm supposed to believe that Sabretooth grows a new body out of an itty bitty piece of flesh lying on the ground? Off-panel? Seriously? When you just tried casting speculation on Carnage getting run over, because we didn't see it clearly? And you're suggesting that such a feat is proven via Ult. Wolverine, 616 Wolverine, etc.? Comedy. Gold.
no one ever said the suit cant take blunt force damage.. the getting hit by a train is impressive both to venom and carnage.. but we dont see him actually getting dismembered or squashed when he was run over their was a small space beneath the train when it happen.. did he get hit F@## yes.. did he slither away and use it as cover while the train was hiding his retreat more then likely.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Lol yes that's why I brought it up... 🙄
[b]1) jinzin: This be some high stacked horsepoo right here. Let's track this "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" myth. Around pages 4-6, here you are, bringing it up on your own out of the blue. Because apparently you don't want anybody making any sort of argument that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" > Sabretooth. And to this projection onto me, I replied that such a myth isn't necessary (I literally dismiss it), by stating Carnage being roughly equal to Venom is enough: So what happened here? You projected a reliance on that myth entirely and unprompted. AND I DISMISSED THAT MYTH RIGHT OFF THE BAT.2) Then around pages 8-9, Wild Shadow and I start arguing over whether Carnage is even at Venom's strength level. To which I replied, SOLELY on that individual notion, that he is, and to HIM, I say that's partly evinced by him going "toe-to-toe" with Venom and Spiderman. Am I anywhere relying on the myth that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" or trying to insinuate that the "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" myth means Carnage > Sabretooth? Did I even once state that Carnage beat both Spidey/Venom? Hell, no I am not. Of course, you decide to interject on this by projecting that myth onto me AGAIN: Never mind the fact that you're wrong on Carnage having only faced Spidey/Venom once. He did it twice in the original Carnage storyline. He sorta does it at the end of Maximum Carnage. He does it again at The Trial of Venom. He does it again in Venom vs. Carnage IIRC. And the end result? I STILL haven't suggested that "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" so that he must beat Sabretooth.
3) Now moving on, here we are at pages 10-11 and in response to your straw-manning of me that Carnage has no clear advantages over Sabretooth, I tell you once again, only on the issue of STRENGTH, he does have an advantage (which by the way you agreed to later on!) Did I suggest that the strength advantage alone evinced by his fights means "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" > Sabretooth? Did I even suggest that Carnage beat Spidey/Venom once? Hell no, I do not: So you ended up arguing with me over Carnage's strength advantage for NOTHING.
4) And by page 12 forward you're already straw-manning me entirely by accusing me of stating that "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" or that Carnage has "beaten" Venom/Spidey together multiple times. And still... have I even at this point lent ANY sort of credence to the myth that "Carnage > Venom/Spidey" at the same time? Have I once even said that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom" at the same time? Hell no, I do not: And what follows is pages upon pages of denial and twisting. It's laid out right here. Not once did I assert "Carnage > Spidey/Venom." Not once did I assert Carnage beat Spidey/Venom. Not once did I assert that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom," so Carnage > Sabretooth. Any times I brought up their encounter, it was in response to YOU bringing it up, or in rebuttal to the idiotic notion that Carnage's strength isn't roughly equal to Venom's. It is. And you completely agreed even though you tried to argue with me on it at first! This is a completely isolated notion that has nothing to do with any reliance on those fights as suggesting that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom" > Sabretooth. I NEVER SUGGESTED THAT. [/B]
Uh you asked when you used it as a credit to your argument I've just showed you 3 times... you don't like the truth? Too bad... you're flat out lying to imply that you weren't trying to use this to further your agenda when we can see that you did so on no less than three occasions. It's as simple as that and no amount of semantic argument and backtracking bull is going to change this fact because it's all there for everyone to see.. your implying his strength is > theirs combined, then you try to go on using Carnage fighting Venom and Spiderman at the same time is evidence to his strength? He hasn't done so multiple times.. far from it. He did it in his first appearance.. every time since then has basically been Venom curbing Carnage while Spiderman pleads with him to stop. That's not Carnage effectively fighting against that team-up which is exactly what you argued.. and this "notion" that Carnage is equal to Venom in strength is nothing I EVER argued against, in fact its something I was quick to correct someone else on early in the debate. So wrong there too. Like I told you before Dumb.. you're MADE of fail in this thread.
Originally posted by Wild ShadowThe scream comes from below the subway train as it's rolling over him. He's laid out on the tracks the instant it rolls over him.
no one ever said the suit cant take blunt force damage.. the getting hit by a train is impressive both to venom and carnage.. but we dont see him actually getting dismembered or squashed when he was run over their was a small space beneath the train when it happen.. did he get hit F@## yes.. did he slither away and use it as cover while the train was hiding his retreat more then likely.
Ya'll rely on that argument that Carnage can't tank getting mangled... otherwise he'd die since the host is severely damaged... what do you think this feat utterly disproves? Either Carnage is so durable that him getting run over the subway train couldn't even damage his host... or in fact, his malleable durability/recuperative abilities allowed him to survive getting mangled. Now it's IDLI, IDH?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0or perhaps carnage got knocked by the train but was never crushed?
Either Carnage is so durable that him getting run over the subway train couldn't even damage his host... or in fact, his malleable durability/recuperative abilities allowed him to survive getting mangled.
he could've landed on one of the electrical lines and hence the scream.
Originally posted by jinzinYou professed so.
Lol yes that's why I brought it up...Uh you asked when you used it as a credit to your argument I've just showed you 3 times... you don't like the truth? Too bad... you're flat out lying to imply that you weren't trying to use this to further your agenda when we can see that you did so on no less than three occasions. It's as simple as that and no amount of semantic argument and backtracking bull is going to change this fact because it's all there for everyone to see.. your implying his strength is > theirs combined, then you try to go on using Carnage fighting Venom and Spiderman at the same time is evidence to his strength? He hasn't done so multiple times.. far from it. He did it in his first appearance.. every time since then has basically been Venom curbing Carnage while Spiderman pleads with him to stop. That's not Carnage effectively fighting against that team-up which is exactly what you argued.. and this "notion" that Carnage is equal to Venom in strength is nothing I EVER argued against, in fact its something I was quick to correct someone else on early in the debate. So wrong there too. Like I told you before Dumb.. you're MADE of fail in this thread.
Dude! Where did I say once that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom?" Where did I say once that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom?" Where did I say once that because "Carnage > Spidey/Venom," Carnage > Sabretooth? NOT ONCE. PHAIL. It's laid out right there. Look at it. You straw-manned me and projected that onto me completely. What did you say as soon as we started arguing who brought it up? You said this:
Originally posted by jinzinI SAID NEITHER. Look. At. The. Quoted. Posts.
The only reason why Venom was brought up by me was to disprove the myth that Carnage>Venom and Spiderman.
To which you tried to convince us all that Carnage has beaten Venom and Spiderman "multiple times"
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
jinzin: The rest of your farces have been exposed. You tried relying on the notion that Cletus' face scratch didn't heal to downplay the notion that symbiotes can heal damage done to their hosts. Several times you threw that scan and the needle scan at me trying to suggest that. And that myth got busted. Sharply. Both the symbiote's malleable durability + recuperative abilities help the host tank direct damage. This is why they are able to have the fights they have.And now you're struggling to deal with Carnage getting run over by the subway train. An instance of proof that ABSOLUTELY evinces that both his malleable durability and recuperative abilities allow him to, not only survive mangling, but survive catastrophic mangling. And when you first read that, did you really think that "Oh, we never see Carnage/Cletus clearly get mangled (never mind the scream and the sounds and the mangled mass of symbiote that squeezes out), so maybe he escaped and it isn't a high durability/recuperation feat?" Did you really think that? That's an honest question. Truly, did you really believe that when you read the comic?
Of course, this all wraps neatly back and ties directly to you also relying on Sentry ripping Carnage in half! To which we all replied, "And Sabretooth would fair better? How does this prove Carnage's capacity for slashing/hacking is vastly lower than Sabretooth's since Sabretooth would be killed too?" Then of course you started hootin and hollerin about Sabretooth healing from being reduced to mince-meat. Off-panel. And I'm supposed to believe that Sabretooth grows a new body out of an itty bitty piece of flesh lying on the ground? Off-panel? Seriously? When you just tried casting speculation on Carnage getting run over, because we didn't see it clearly? And you're suggesting that such a feat is proven via Ult. Wolverine, 616 Wolverine, etc.? Comedy. Gold.
Dur no... The Carnage face scratch.. all I did was respond to when you tried to claim it was a clear feat of Carnage healing, when it's a feat of the symbiote reforming and has NOTHING to do with healing the wound done to the host.
My opinion has nothing to do with the FACT that Cletus' face wound doesn't close up... it's a terrible piece of evidence for you to bring into this debate to attempt showing Carnage as advanced healing abilties.. No myth there.
The Subway...... As stated multiple things could have happened that don't dictate massive amounts of healing to take place, if ANY. Carnage screaming at an incoming train isn't surprising, I'm sure it's scary, but that ALSO does not dictate he healed catostrophic damage, the sounds of squishing we see coming directly from underneath the train are his tendrils so that proves nothing.. NOTHING in those scans proves what you're trying to make them prove... much less "clearly" but I 😂 at you for thinking Carnage can take having his head crushed or severed by a train... 😂 😂 😂
It's also nice to see how hypocritical you can be about this feat versus ignoring the Sabretooth one, but again, not a surprise coming from you.
So your position is now that your off panel feat is more important than mine even though there's less evidence to support the theory of yours that comes with it?
You think Ultimate Wolverine heals faster than his 616 counterpart?
LOL and I'm the comic... lmao!
^ I couldn't care less about your "Sabretooth heals from little meat chunks via one lil meat chunk reforming an entire new body." It's the stupidest myth you've proferred so far. That myth isn't gaining ANY traction here whatsoever. And that's a VAST understatement. Now answer this:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And now you're struggling to deal with Carnage getting run over by the subway train. An instance of proof that ABSOLUTELY evinces that both his malleable durability and recuperative abilities allow him to, not only survive mangling, but survive catastrophic mangling. And when you first read that, did you really think that "Oh, we never see Carnage/Cletus clearly get mangled (never mind the scream and the sounds and the mangled mass of symbiote that squeezes out), so maybe he escaped and it isn't a high durability/recuperation feat?" Did you really think that? That's an honest question. Truly, did you really believe that when you read the comic?
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
no one ever said the suit cant take blunt force damage.. the getting hit by a train is impressive both to venom and carnage.. but we dont see him actually getting dismembered or squashed when he was run over their was a small space beneath the train when it happen.. did he get hit F@## yes.. did he slither away and use it as cover while the train was hiding his retreat more then likely.
Seriously! Like Venom wouldn't have stayed there to make sure Carnage was dead if his husk of a body was writhing around on the tracks... 🙄
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You professed so.Dude! Where did I say once that "Carnage > Spidey/Venom?" Where did I say once that "Carnage beat Spidey/Venom?" Where did I say once that because "Carnage > Spidey/Venom," Carnage > Sabretooth? NOT ONCE. PHAIL. It's laid out right there. Look at it. You straw-manned me and projected that onto me completely. [b]What did you say as soon as we started arguing who brought it up?
You said this: I SAID NEITHER. Look. At. The. Quoted. Posts. [/B]
Like I never said Carnage would go down to a gutting? *yawn*
Again this is you trying to evade the same type of arguments you throw at me... according to your logic on the whole gutting/throat strike mess, you didn't have to since your evaluation that carnage has more strength than them combined and that carnage is venoms equal AND that Venom would rage stomp Sabretooth...... need I go on?
Again, you used this nonsense myth to try and further your argument... it's not helping your case.
its not so much being run over.. since he was clearly hit and forced underneath the train... it is his assumption that he continued to be injured squashed and mutilated underneath the train and its small space which i highly doubt.. the wheels obviously cant slice and dice him since they are on the track.
