Originally posted by jinzin
The force of some weak ass robotic legs from a nobody put Venom on his knees? Oh really? Even though they failed to penetrate deep at all?....
Really?
Venom? The guy who almost without a working symbiote, braced an entire ferris wheel? uh-huh.As I said, haven't seen the Kraven example so I can't comment.
And are you using the Venom/Wolverine 3 part as evidence? What the hell? Wolverine never even landed more than a glancing blow on Venom there, there was NO, nadda, zip, attacks that hit any vital areas, hell he never even attempted to land a penetrating attack in that story, and none of their fighting was a real there... They were purposefully pretending to fight so they could get closer to whatsherface in that arc.
So that does NOTHING to lend credence to your argument...
Their nightmare fight had Venom on his ass after getting gutchecked so not really sure what your talking about there.
so that also does not lend credit to your position....
And neither does using the Venom clone for that matter. Like seriously...... WTF? Just because Brock is a better/more experienced host and was able to beat up the clone with sheer power doesn't somehow conclude that they had the same abilities.
The clone spontaneously developed new attributes in Brock's absence. We already went over some of them.
With Wolverine again.... Had that been a regular symbiote overlapping a typical host the fight hold have been VERY different. Brock NEVER had the power to increase his mass until the end of the Venom: Run storyarc, before that it was dispurst over his body like a suit.
And we've seen MULTIPLES of times where Venom had to draw the suit from one part of his body to expand it or send it to another.
For instance the mace arch, Lethal Protector, Bride of Venom. There's tons of times the symbiote had to stretch itself thin to compensate for being overused. The ability to increase his mass only showed up after Venom and his clone merged, and please don't go back to cartoonish artists interpretations to try and prove differently....
In any case it doesn't matter... Carnage has also never displayed the ability to increase his mass, he's no where near the mass of Venom, and he DOES wear his symbiote like a suit over his body... so that's that.
As for anti-venom... Uhhhh.... 😐
That suit has all of his strengths, none of his weaknesses and powers ON TOP OF THAT... you can't honestly compare the two as though they're the same thing... and once again, haven't seen that book so I can't comment further than this.
I've yet to see one credible point to help support your argument here.
"uh-huh" come on Jin, I already once told you I joined this forum 5 years ago after reading your comments in "Venom vs Carnage" thead, even have them saved somewhere on my pc. There's no need for the sarcasm, just say you dont agree and ill try to give better arguments.
Venom is strong but that doesnt mean he can't be knocked off balance, especially if attacked from behind, and I believe that's what happened since he showed no signs of injury and instantly got back up after mocking the guy.
Fair enough. In that book Wolverine only cut his face. Doesnt help my case here. I'll drop this one example.
The nightmare thing actually does. They weren't fighting, they were just standing there when Wolverine all of a sudden gutted Venom because he wanted to even the score, his claws went right through, yeah Venom fell from that attack but he didn't see it coming and falling doesn't = getting injured. Venom didn't make a sound, not even an "ouch". Wolverine gutted him, Venom fell, said something like "ok we're even, so no we can get along", instantly got up and swung away like nothing hapened. Wolverine could've as well just PUSHED him on his ass with the same result. It proves my point. And in the very same story Wolverine admitted that he can't possibly kill Venom and only MIGHT be able to hurt him. He knew what he was talking about.
It was a copy. What makes you think that he is better at taking Wolverine's stabs than the original Venom? They had matching size, strength, durability, hf etc. So it can be used as an argument as well. Also in that book the symbiote was drawn so huge it made no difference if the host is an old lady or Brock, they'd still be out of reach. And later Venom merged with that clone anyway.
Sometimes it was shown like a suit, sometimes they were shown like a merged being. Otherwise that She-Hulk incident I mentioned would've been impossible. But Venom was always shown to be able to get stabbed, gutted etc and not give a crap about it even before the run.
What cartoonish interpritation? I never did that. I was always talking about the comics. And Brock forcing to retract the symbiote was only his earlier appearances and when he had to use TOO much webbing leaving himself exposed. And not only after "run", there's a book (im pretty sure it's 616, can post scans) that showed the time when Parker still had the suit, the symbiote left him and battled Sandman (who's grown the size of a small building) The symbiote increased its own size as well and wtfstomped Sandman. That apperantly explains where his "nightmares" about Venom came from. So Venom could increase his mass making all the stabs useless. Not that they bothered him before.
Carnage never did that, true. But wasn't his blood shown to be symbiotic already? So I dont think cutting him would be that effective. i.e when Logan did it even though its been just a shoulder. Also, there's the whole mindcontrol thing. The symbiote has the ability to controle minds and even without leaving the host. Might work on ST if it worked even on Silver Surfer.
Well, other than the "curing" ability and lack of weeknesses Anti-Venom never displayed anything impressive to put him on the same lelvel as classic Venom. Let alone above him.
"I've yet to see one credible point to help support your argument here."
I believe I made several. For Venom-Brock merging together as well as that Venom or his clone (or both of them combined doesnt matter) cant be put down simply by getting cut, gutted, stabbed etc.
