Originally posted by Mr Master
Hmm ... I wonder what the Phoenix Egg is doing in the Future then:Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)
we are in Reality 15104:
Page 32 of New X-men #150
The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)
Here's your smilie:
No where is it stated, in that scan or in the comic that its reality 15104. “Future of another timeline“, “reality 15104” are all abruptly inserted by you.
Originally posted by id369
No where is it stated, in that scan or in the comic that its reality 15104. “Future of another timeline“, “reality 15104” are all abruptly inserted by you.
Precisely. ✅
New X-men 150 was a 616 comic, so the fact that at the end it said 150 years later meant that it was the future of 616.
As a future timeline created from a divergence point in 616 it means conclusively that reality 15104 is OF 616, it derives directly from 616 and is not a completely separate universe. It is a future point of the 616 universe and to distinguish its events from the 616 present it has the designation 15104.
Originally posted by Galan007
Someone should count how many times we've seen the same scans posted in this thread alone. ermmnone
OK you asked for it! this is quick count i could be wrong(i am at work)
Here comes tommorrow
Scans 9-11 Mr master repeated-7 to 9 times multiple scans of 9 scans
bios 2-9- Mr Matser repeated 11
betsy ref 6 -7 times Mr Master repeated
watcher ref 6-7 times Mr Master repeated
G.S first rebuttles no scans...quoted rebuttles - 3
Up to 4 repeated rebuttles on certain scans
id369-first rebuttles no scans after MR Masters-3 rebuttles
2-4 repeated scan rebuttles
now this is not a definitive count, while i am at work it is hard to stay focused on one thing for a long time
Originally posted by starlock
OK you asked for it! this is quick count i could be wrong(i am at work)Here comes tommorrow
Scans 9-11 Mr master repeated-7 to 9 times multiple scans of 9 scans
bios 2-9- Mr Matser repeated 11
betsy ref 6 -7 times Mr Master repeated
watcher ref 6-7 times Mr Master repeatedG.S first rebuttles no scans...quoted rebuttles - 3
Up to 4 repeated rebuttles on certain scansid369-first rebuttles no scans after MR Masters-3 rebuttles
2-4 repeated scan rebuttlesnow this is not a definitive count, while i am at work it is hard to stay focused on one thing for a long time
I think mine is a bit off, you see you are only counting the images that are seen. While I posted a bunch tagged to a word, or comment. (I don’t like big messy posts).
Originally posted by id369
I think mine is a bit off, you see you are only counting the images that are seen. While I posted a bunch tagged to a word, or comment. (I don’t like big messy posts).
I am at work its hard to stay on target 🙂
I hope i did not offend anyone, i am just having fun with it, but it does show an indication of whats there 😱
Btw i have the utmost repect for you and GS and most of the posters on these boards, its not a slam against anybody
keep up the good debating, i look forward to your posts
Originally posted by starlock
I am at work its hard to stay on target 🙂I hope i did not offend anyone, i am just having fun with it, but it does show an indication of whats there 😱
Btw i have the utmost repect for you and GS and most of the posters on these boards, its not a slam against anybody
keep up the good debating, i look forward to your posts
No offense taken, but if we are trying to be get an exact count. I already lost count to how many images I posted.
Originally posted by id369
No where is it stated, in that scan or in the comic that its reality 15104. “Future of another timeline“, “reality 15104” are all abruptly inserted by you.
If it's a point in Time taking place in the Future,
then it's another Timeline. (simple as that)
Simple physics tell us that two separate points in Time,
cannot occupy the same space. (Marvel follows this fact)
This is why Here Comes Tomorrow sets off in the final pages of New X-Men #150:
"Here Comes Tomorrow" (Reality 15104 began in issue#150)
(excerpt from the official "Here Comes Tomorrow" bio)
Or I can pose this question:
Where is/was the Present-day (year 2004 at the time) 616 Universe,
while Here Comes Tomorrow was taking place 150 years later?
Surely you can't be suggesting,
that the 616 Timeline was existing simultaneously in the Present and Future.
I mean, that's the whole point of Timelines,
to separate points in Time.
Originally posted by starlock
OK you asked for it! this is quick count i could be wrong(i am at work)Here comes tommorrow
Scans 9-11 Mr master repeated-7 to 9 times multiple scans of 9 scans
bios 2-9- Mr Matser repeated 11
betsy ref 6 -7 times Mr Master repeated
watcher ref 6-7 times Mr Master repeatedG.S first rebuttles no scans...quoted rebuttles - 3
Up to 4 repeated rebuttles on certain scansid369-first rebuttles no scans after MR Masters-3 rebuttles
2-4 repeated scan rebuttlesnow this is not a definitive count, while i am at work it is hard to stay focused on one thing for a long time
Obviously you had that kinda time starlock. Even at work. 😆
Originally posted by Mr Master
It doesn't have to be stated friend. (although it is in it's bio)If it's a point in Time taking place in the Future,
then it's another Timeline. (simple as that)Simple physics tell us that [B]two separate points in Time,
. (Marvel follows this fact)[/B]
cannot occupy the same space
Nooooooo. ❌
It takes place further down the timeline, 150 years ahead to be exact. Think of it as a branch off of the 616 trunk. It is not a separate tree, that is the reason why it is a future of 616 and not of another universe. The designation 15104 distinguishes it from 616 as the events are completely different. However before the point of divergence which created this future, it is 616.
Once again think of 616 as the main trunk and the future reality 15104 as a branch.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Where is/was the Present-day (year 2004 at the time) 616 Universe,
while Here Comes Tomorrow was taking place 150 years later?Surely you can't be suggesting,
that the 616 Timeline was existing simultaneously in the Present and Future.I mean, that's the whole point of Timelines,
to separate points in Time.
What do you mean where is 616 as HCT was taking place? The HCT arc took place 150 years further down the timeline and that is what was depicted on panel from New X-men 150 onwards. 616 hadn't disappearred, it was just further back in the timeline.
That is why for the X-men comic to go back to the present we all know, Jean had to cut away the divergent future that was HCT and then alter the divergent point which created HCT....Cyclops reaction to Emma. Once Jean did that 616 carried on as normal, Cyclops stuck by Emma and the rest you're reading in X-men 🙂
Issue 150 servers as the prologue, while issue 155 as the epilogue to HCT (#151-154). Because there is no added text, or stamp that claims 150 years later In an “Alternate Reality“; Its simply 150 years later period. It signifies that it’s an Arc taking place 150 years after the events of Planet X in the 616 continuality. That’s how its introduced, let alone the fact, action in the 616 past needed to take place to divert the future (HCT).
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It takes place further down the timeline, 150 years ahead to be exact. Think of it as a branch off of the 616 trunk. It is not a separate tree, that is the reason why it is a future of 616 and not of another universe. The designation 15104 distinguishes it from 616 as the events are completely different. However before the point of divergence which created this future, it is 616.
Once again think of 616 as the main trunk and the future reality 15104 as a branch.
What do you mean where is 616 as HCT was taking place? The HCT arc took place 150 years further down the timeline and that is what was depicted on panel from New X-men 150 onwards. 616 hadn't disappearred, it was just further back in the timeline.
That is why for the X-men comic to go back to the present we all know, Jean had to cut away the divergent future that was HCT and then alter the divergent point which created HCT....Cyclops reaction to Emma. Once Jean did that 616 carried on as normal, Cyclops stuck by Emma and the rest you're reading in X-men
Either you're in the Present (current 616 Timeline)
or you're in the Past/Future (Other Timelines)
Like GOTG for instance,
they reside in Reality 691 (the 31st Century of the 616 Universe)
Why is the Future or Past of 616 located in separate Timeline? (good question)
Because TWO separate points in Time can NOT occupy the same space.
(simple answer with simple physics)
Notice the term ... "Time ... line"
(a designation in a line representing separate points in Time)
150 Years into the Future of 616 is, well ... 150 years beyond the Present,
which is exactly why,
the instant Morrison decided to place his story in the Future,
he was forced to locate the designation of said story in a separate Timeline.
Hence:
(excerpt from the official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio)
"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ... First appearance, New X-Men #150"
...............................................................................................
You may spin the "Here Comes Tomorrow" bio,
or make up some story to dismiss it,
but it's there for all to see and read.
...............................................................................................
Reality 15104 did NOT appear in issue #154 when Jean amputated it's future,
Reality 15104 was clearly born the instant the story jumped into the Future.
On Panel confirmation:
Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)
we are in Reality 15104:
Page 32 of New X-men #150
The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)
Just like the Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio states. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr MasterOr I can pose this question:
Where is/was the Present-day (year 2004 at the time) 616 Universe,
while Here Comes Tomorrow was taking place 150 years later?Surely you can't be suggesting,
that the 616 Timeline was existing simultaneously in the Present and Future.I mean, that's the whole point of Timelines,
to separate points in Time. [/B]
There is only one time line for one reality. HCT originally takes place 150 years after the events that followed Planet X, in the 616 timeline. This is before Phoenix interferes, with 616 Cyclops which alters events, so HCT never comes to pass.
Interfering with the past, causes a breach in reality event’s spawning a new parallel reality. It’s the reason why bios now refer to HCT belonging to the 15104 reality.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree, there's no such thing as "further down the Timeline" in Marvel.Either you're in the Present (current 616 Timeline)
or you're in the Past/Future (Other Timelines)Like GOTG for instance,
they reside in Reality 691 (the 31st Century of the 616 Universe)Why is the Future or Past of 616 located in separate Timeline? (good question)
[B]Because TWO separate points in Time can NOT occupy the same space
.
(simple answer with simple physics)Notice the term ... "Time ... line"
(a designation in a line representing separate points in Time)150 Years into the Future of 616 is, well ... 150 years beyond the Present,
which is exactly why,
the instant Morrison decided to place his story in the Future,
he was forced to locate the designation of said story in a separate Timeline.Hence:
(excerpt from the official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio)
"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ... First appearance, New X-Men #150"
...............................................................................................
You may spin the "Here Comes Tomorrow" bio,
or make up some story to dismiss it,
but it's there for all to see and read................................................................................................
Reality 15104 did NOT appear in issue #154 when Jean amputated it's future,
Reality 15104 was clearly born the instant the story jumped into the Future.On Panel confirmation:
Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)
we are in Reality 15104:
Page 32 of New X-men #150
The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)
Just like the Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio states. 🙂 [/B]
I think you’ve lost track of what’s being argued here Mr Master.
I’m not saying that two different points in time existed in the same place, no one is, so why you keep repeating that statement I really do not know.
You are arguing that Here Comes Tomorrow was a completely separate reality. It was NOT.
It is a divergent future which IS 616 up until a point of divergence. Once again think of 616 as the main trunk of a tree and think of reality 15104 as a branch off from that main trunk.
Before the point of divergence (which for reality 15104 was Scott’s reaction to Emma) you have 616. That is what makes 15104 a future OF 616. If it was a completely separate reality then Here Comes Tomorrow wouldn’t have had anything to do with 616 characters, it would not have been a future of 616.
I think your perceptions of what alternate realities/futures are and the structure of a timeline is flawed, so allow me to present a comic scan which visualizes it:
616 as illustrated here is the main timeline. It is the trunk of the multiversal structure. Time and events are set in stone, so when an event either in the past or the present is changed from what it is supposed to be, then reality diverges from the main trunk and an alternate timeline is born.
These divergent timelines aren’t separate trees; they are branches off of a tree. That is where you are going wrong.
So if you cut away that divergent timeline, then all you are left with is 616.
The timeline is a stream from one point in time to another, so by holding the amputated Here Comes Tomorrow future Jean would NOT have been able to hear events from the past of 616 as she’s holding an isolated piece of timeline that doesn’t flow into 616.
It’s like downloading a video from the internet only for your internet connection to be cut. As you’re no longer connected to the source, all you can watch is the chunk you’ve got on your hard drive; you can’t watch the rest of the movie because the stream of data from the source to your PC has been cut off.
By holding an amputated future Jean would not be able to apply her power to it to cause changes 150 years back in the present (616) because the timeline is isolated and doesn’t flow into the main 616 timestream since Jean cut it off after the divergence point.
Your interpretation is conclusively wrong, because you’re trying to argue reality 15104 was a completely separate universe and as a DIVERGENT FUTURE that is absolutely not the case. It is just a branch off of 616.
Cyclops was meant to stay with Emma and continue the work of the X-men. Jean as Phoenix was meant to cut all ties with her former humanity and eradicate Sublime from reality. She is only around to perform her Phoenix work that is her role.
That is why the Phoenix began manifesting within her again; around the same time Sublime was making big moves to eradicate what it perceived to be the mutant threat.
The Phoenix manifestation appears and gives Charles visions of what’s to come. It visualizes the destruction of New York at Xornetos hands as Charles asks “Are these words from the future?”
