Scion/Theory Kain v.s. Sargeras

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain has the concept at his disposal, he could essentially do anything with power over the concept itself, if you can imagine a a time attack, in the theory kain with power over the concept could do it, however Nozmordu afaik has no such powers for example completly freezing a being in time or deleting time corridors

And Kain in theory would have that even though nothing suggest that it would ever be possible???

yes, speculation is good sometimes and perhaps viable as long as the person knows its speculation, because VS matches themselves are speculation[/B]

Yes it is but based on facts and feats and the compared, if Vs matches that is speculation come to be based on speculation well...

yes i always wonder, where do they get these combat pieces from? i mean it says Aman'thul would perhaps fly while casting magic and then summon other Titans, is this documented in RPG? [/B]

It is mentioned in case some epic (and incredible stupid) heroes would choose to seek him out and fight him then the Gamesmaster is supposed to use the information on Aman'Thul to his advances against the Heroes.

hmm ime not sure, how does silence work? i mean going by the name it stops people from speaking but kain gestures to use the shield, ime not sure silence would work and yes it would be interesting to see who would stop first [/B]

Well you should know very well since it was you who taught be about it in Illidan vs Cenarius. Silence is a spell that prevents all spells from being casted. Yes it would a infinite reserve and a infinite appetite

yes the sun itself, i am assuming when it says "sun consumption" it means the power can consume the sun?, thats the spell isnt it, he would need to consume the magic of the well to gain this power as it says in the book but the spell "consumption of the sun" would be devasating [/B]

No it is just a name Burning Thought nothing more, and the book states that the spell only requires a suitable supply of energy a supply that Kain is about to Launce straight into Sargares face.

also whats this wish thing lady? you menstioned [/B]

I'm not entirely sure but I have a theory but since I'm not sure I will let her answer the question herself.

btw these books are really good how many have you read so far???

Update the arcane Magic that exist in Azeroth is placed there by the Titans.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Wish

Thanks Darth Extecute I think I will just look through his powerset again 😉 because I seems to remember Kil'Jaeden having it...

When Kain used these concepts, was it a wave of a hand or a ritual that made the actual ability?

Originally posted by Utrigita
And Kain in theory would have that even though nothing suggest that it would ever be possible???

Yes it is but based on facts and feats and the compared, if Vs matches that is speculation come to be based on speculation well...

It is mentioned in case some epic (and incredible stupid) heroes would choose to seek him out and fight him then the Gamesmaster is supposed to use the information on Aman'Thul to his advances against the Heroes.

Well you should know very well since it was you who taught be about it in Illidan vs Cenarius. Silence is a spell that prevents all spells from being casted. Yes it would a infinite reserve and a infinite appetite

No it is just a name Burning Thought nothing more, and the book states that the spell only requires a suitable supply of energy a supply that Kain is about to Launce straight into Sargares face.

I'm not entirely sure but I have a theory but since I'm not sure I will let her answer the question herself.

btw these books are really good how many have you read so far???

its a theory based around what i described in forums (cant post links to forums ofc) but basically its to do with the fact that the pillars are the representations of the concept itself, now kain with all the concept emblems and without having to share the power the balance guardian usually links to other guardians to do with the pillars (since their dead) kain would not only gain the full power of the pillars that they had but he also has the emblems to all the concepts that hold the foundations of said powers, it would indeed from that theory be possible that he has power over the concepts, combine that with infnite magical energies and he can do what he likes using the emblems

(ill pm you the websites section, it may explain more things about the theory)

heroes in the RPG go to fight titans? lol, i wonder if anyone seriously playing ever wins...

hmm indeed i should but ive forgotten the specifics of the spell, since most of the spells are difficult to understand the basis behind them, i use the names for example silence sounds like you are stopping them speaking, so in a real battle those who do not need to speak to cast any spells are likely to still be able to, but who knows, the spell does indeed stop mages useing spells

just a name? how can we be sure Archimonde could not consume the sun itself, he may be able to after swallowing the incredible power of the well, it does say he would become supreme, i think an Eredar should definatley be the one who takes power like that, they are wicked but incredibly powerful already and probably have good imaginations

the books? hmm, ive read through a lot of the monsters manuel so far

Originally posted by Lady Fox
When Kain used these concepts, was it a wave of a hand or a ritual that made the actual ability?

the power of the reaver it comes from, it usually flashes or something when he uses the power of the reaver, he doesnt really wave it unless its a projectile attack

Wait.... what? You need to rephrase I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Wait.... what? You need to rephrase I'm afraid.

sorry, these concepts come through his sword the reaver, when he uses them, he thinks and then the reaver flashes the color of the emblem (diffrent colors for each concept) and powers can be used

also that wish thing sounds interesting, if Sargerus had that it could certainly be an interesting power

What concept powers has he formerly used, what did he do and which different concepts are there?

Originally posted by Burning thought
its a theory based around what i described in forums (cant post links to forums ofc) but basically its to do with the fact that the pillars are the representations of the concept itself, now kain with all the concept emblems and without having to share the power the balance guardian usually links to other guardians to do with the pillars (since their dead) kain would not only gain the full power of the pillars that they had but he also has the emblems to all the concepts that hold the foundations of said powers, it would indeed from that theory be possible that he has power over the concepts, combine that with infnite magical energies and he can do what he likes using the emblems

And this equals him being capable of erasing timelines, the most powerful I can remember being said about Morbius was that he was omniscient and capable of traveling through time, but of cause theory is hard to argue against.

(ill pm you the websites section, it may explain more things about the theory)[/B]

Cool.

heroes in the RPG go to fight titans? lol, i wonder if anyone seriously playing ever wins...[/B]

I seriously doubt that they do, but I think that is the idea... in some sick humor sort of way...

hmm indeed i should but ive forgotten the specifics of the spell, since most of the spells are difficult to understand the basis behind them, i use the names for example silence sounds like you are stopping them speaking, so in a real battle those who do not need to speak to cast any spells are likely to still be able to, but who knows, the spell does indeed stop mages useing spells[/B]

It does completely so Sargares should be capable of casting it on Kain even though his shield is up it is still stopping Kain from summoning a new one.

just a name? how can we be sure Archimonde could not consume the sun itself, he may be able to after swallowing the incredible power of the well, it does say he would become supreme, i think an Eredar should definatley be the one who takes power like that, they are wicked but incredibly powerful already and probably have good imaginations[/B]

Yes just a name. We doesn't know but imho the Well is much more interesting to devoure then the Sun would ever be for a Eredar. Agreed with all parts of the latter of you post, have you had a chance to see what level of sorcerer Kil'Jaeden is 😈

the books? hmm, ive read through a lot of the monsters manuel so far [/B]

The handbooks 😮

Originally posted by Lady Fox
What concept powers has he formerly used, what did he do and which different concepts are there?

None really which is why we are using the theory a little info on the Pillars (concept)

Mind - The Mind Guardian has the powers of telekinesis and telepathy, the latter of which also allows the Guardian to create extremely realistic illusions.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
An unnamed guardian was killed by Vorador in Blood Omen.
Nupraptor the Mentalist appeared in Blood Omen.

Conflict - The Conflict Guardian's powers are vaguely defined in the games, but they seem to have the power to infuse others with rage.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
Malek the Sarafan appeared in Blood Omen and Soul Reaver 2.
Nature - The Nature Guardian has the power to control nature and reshape it from one form to another.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
An unnamed guardian was killed by Vorador in Blood Omen.
Bane the Druid appeared in Blood Omen.

Dimension - The Dimension Guardian has the power to see into, enter and draw things from alternate dimensions.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
An unnamed guardian was killed by Vorador in Blood Omen.
Azimuth the Planer appeared in Blood Omen.

Energy - The Energy Guardian has the power to control infinite amounts of energy, though this ability can be as dangerous to the Guardian as it can be to others.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
An unnamed guardian was killed by Vorador in Blood Omen.
Dejoule the Energist appeared in Blood Omen.

States - The States Guardian's powers are vaguely defined in the games, but they seem to have the power to transfigure matter, giving the Guardian unparalleled skill in alchemy.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
An unnamed guardian was killed by Vorador in Blood Omen.
Anacrothe the Alchemist appeared in Blood Omen.

Time - The Time Guardian has the power to manipulate the flow of time, this also gives the guardian near-omniscience as they can see the past, present and future.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
Moebius the Timestreamer appeared in Blood Omen, Soul Reaver 1 & 2 and Defiance.

Death - The Death Guardian has power over death and can suspend the soul of an individual in a physical form beyond death.
The original vampire guardian's ghost appeared in Defiance.
Mortanius the Necromancer appeared in Blood Omen and Defiance.

Balance - The Balance Guardian has the power of boundless, incorruptible magic. The Guaridan also binds all of the other Guardians to the Pillars and to one another.
An unnamed guardian was killed by Vorador in Blood Omen.
Ariel appeared in Blood Omen, Soul Reaver 1 & 2 and Defiance.
Kain was destined to take Ariel's place but has refused to submit to that fate. He later became the Scion of Balance.

Originally posted by Lady Fox
What concept powers has he formerly used, what did he do and which different concepts are there?

he has used the concepts through a limited power conduit, the blood reaver not the soul reaver (which has a weaker power source, blood not souls) and has gained effects such as slowing time to a crawl, controlling energy such as lightning and using the concept of dimension to travel through dimensions as well as limited reality warping such as making enemies feel the same pains as the one kain hits, this is in gameplay however, where the abilites are canon but are restricted like Warcraft 3 spells and WoW by gameplay balance (or in WoW case, a try at balance 😉 )

other beings using the same perhaps lesser power than kain in canon who were mere mortals and not really supposed to have power from the pillars (since the pillars were designed for vampires and so imo ofc just speculation but i feel logical that it woudl be stronger for vampires) but they could change continents with their magic, teleport others through dimensions, be almost omnicient like Nozmordu with time and the one who used the concept of energy could control limitless amounts, there were the spirit and states concepts as well, but here, a wiki arcticle i know but there are not many sites that can explain their powers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_of_Nine

lol.....okie ignore this Wiki thing, Utriga has beaten me to it

Originally posted by Burning thought
also that wish thing sounds interesting, if Sargerus had that it could certainly be an interesting power

it must certainly would, I couldn't find it though the skills and abilities I looked through was instant, I doesn't know if it could be placed under spells.

Being designed for vampires does not make it stronger for vampires. It makes it weaker for the others 😉

I will look that link up 🙂

Originally posted by Utrigita
And this equals him being capable of erasing timelines, the most powerful I can remember being said about Morbius was that he was omniscient and capable of traveling through time, but of cause theory is hard to argue against.

Cool.

I seriously doubt that they do, but I think that is the idea... in some sick humor sort of way...

It does completely so Sargares should be capable of casting it on Kain even though his shield is up it is still stopping Kain from summoning a new one.

Yes just a name. We doesn't know but imho the Well is much more interesting to devoure then the Sun would ever be for a Eredar. Agreed with all parts of the latter of you post, have you had a chance to see what level of sorcerer Kil'Jaeden is 😈

The handbooks 😮

well yes, Moebius ofc is a human not really supposed to have power over pillars designed by vampires, and kain is the scion desitined to bring the pillars back and keep nosgoth alive so i simply in theory belive he could logically have more power than moebius, not to menstion moebius even then had to gain his power from a balance guardian like kain is through their link, yet kain would not only have the pillar emblem giving him the power but also the full power of energy that would usually go to a time guardian and all the others..yet ofc their dead

hmm perhaps but Silence is a spell, so if the shield was up, the shield would reflect the spell and sargerus would silence himslef, the shield can reflect spells

yes i can imagine ,but i dont know why i dont like Killy, i prefer archimonde, something about a blue guy in gold makes me think hes cooler "shrug" lol

Originally posted by Lady Fox
Being designed for vampires does not make it stronger for vampires. It makes it weaker for the others 😉

I will look that link up 🙂

same sort of thing, what i was saying moebius is human, but you know what i mean i think

Sargeras should have wish to a certain extent at least. He did after all grant Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden powers.

I know Khaz'goroth got wish to an extremely large extent, but not sure about the other titans.

Originally posted by Burning thought
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_of_Nine

lol.....okie ignore this Wiki thing, Utriga has beaten me to it

whistling

I am just curious. If Kain had the concepts on his side, how did he fail?

Originally posted by Burning thought
well yes, Moebius ofc is a human not really supposed to have power over pillars designed by vampires, and kain is the scion desitined to bring the pillars back and keep nosgoth alive so i simply in theory belive he could logically have more power than moebius, not to menstion moebius even then had to gain his power from a balance guardian like kain is through their link, yet kain would not only have the pillar emblem giving him the power but also the full power of energy that would usually go to a time guardian and all the others..yet ofc their dead

So it's kind of a infinity Gauntlet Kain has gathered??? And I know what Kain is destined to do, but imo you are stretching it a bit Burning Thought, by claiming that Kain can Erase Timelines. Such a thing has to my knowlegde never even been momentarrely mentioned in the Game ore anywhere els, for that matter...

hmm perhaps but Silence is a spell, so if the shield was up, the shield would reflect the spell and sargerus would silence himslef, the shield can reflect spells[/B]

I don't quiet think Silence work that way Burning Thought, but will check it

yes i can imagine ,but i dont know why i dont like Killy, i prefer archimonde, something about a blue guy in gold makes me think hes cooler "shrug" lol[/B]

Cooler maybe more evil no

Silence is not a spell. It is an abnormal sound that locks the enchanted 'paths' of an humanoid, preventing the usage of all supernatural actions.