Thanos w THOTU vs. The Endless

Lucifer did rip out of a page of the Book and burn it.

However, that page did happen to say "Now Lucifer rips out of a page of the book of Destiny and burns it."

Destiny as much as says so.

Thanos could destroy each individual aspect of the Endless. But the Endless aren't just embodiments of the concepts themselves- they ARE the concepts. That's a major point in the Sandman. Morpheus is a "point of view" of Dreams. In order to truly "defeat" the Endless, Thanos would have to uncreate the universe.

Not saying that he couldn't with the THOTU- obviously he can. But the thing is, as long as Thanos still has desires or if Thanos dreams, they'd still exist- subject to his control, though.

you can't really "defeat" the Endless- it's kind of a concept that just doesn't make sense. You could destroy the individual aspects to your heart's content, but as long as you're "destroying" anything, Destruction still exists.

So basically, the point of this post is that, while you're right that the Endless, if they did battle with Thanos with the Heart, would lose. But it's kind of moot- it's like saying Thanos with the Heart could destroy the concept of "being."

Originally posted by tjcoady
Lucifer did rip out of a page of the Book and burn it.

However, that page did happen to say "Now Lucifer rips out of a page of the book of Destiny and burns it."

Destiny as much as says so.

Thanos could destroy each individual aspect of the Endless. But the Endless aren't just embodiments of the concepts themselves- they ARE the concepts. That's a major point in the Sandman. Morpheus is a "point of view" of Dreams. In order to truly "defeat" the Endless, Thanos would have to uncreate the universe.

Not saying that he couldn't with the THOTU- obviously he can. But the thing is, as long as Thanos still has desires or if Thanos dreams, they'd still exist- subject to his control, though.

you can't really "defeat" the Endless- it's kind of a concept that just doesn't make sense. You could destroy the individual aspects to your heart's content, but as long as you're "destroying" anything, Destruction still exists.

So basically, the point of this post is that, while you're right that the Endless, if they did battle with Thanos with the Heart, would lose. But it's kind of moot- it's like saying Thanos with the Heart could destroy the concept of "being."

iirc ripping the page from the book was what was SUPPOSED to happen (or we were meant to deduce such was the case). therefore, it was lucifer's destiny to tear out the page. therefore, lucifer himself was subject to destiny. and of course he is, since the presence WROTE the book.

the book is said to contain the 'universe' itself. decide on your own what that means in dc cosmology. that is the beg/mid/end -- it implies that EVERYTHING is pre-destined. it's the ultimate plot device. even lt would be subject to such a concept were it in existence in marvel. only a 'truly' omnipotent entity could write the book. and that is the presence.

i'll disagree with you mm when you say thanos became 'god'. god is omnipotent. thanos didn't even have the PERSONAL knowledge to realize his unconscious DESIRE kept warlock and the others alive. he perhaps had the POWER, but bearing the power did NOT make him omnipotent, clearly. you claim he was above concepts when the concept of his OWN desires was hidden from him. if he was still subject to them how exactly was he 'above them'?

again, COULD he somehow rewrite existence to not include these concepts? i guess, IF toaa actually wanted him to do so, but to be truly without them he would have to remove them from himself as well and assume the actual ROLE, and not just the 'power' of toaa.

Lucifer did rip out of a page of the Book and burn it.

However, that page did happen to say "Now Lucifer rips out of a page of the book of Destiny and burns it."

damnit! that's what i was trying to say! 😄

and well said. 😉

Originally posted by tjcoady
Lucifer did rip out of a page of the Book and burn it.

However, that page did happen to say "Now Lucifer rips out of a page of the book of Destiny and burns it."

Destiny as much as says so.

Thanos could destroy each individual aspect of the Endless. But the Endless aren't just embodiments of the concepts themselves- they ARE the concepts. That's a major point in the Sandman. Morpheus is a "point of view" of Dreams. In order to truly "defeat" the Endless, Thanos would have to uncreate the universe.

Not saying that he couldn't with the THOTU- obviously he can. But the thing is, as long as Thanos still has desires or if Thanos dreams, they'd still exist- subject to his control, though.

you can't really "defeat" the Endless- it's kind of a concept that just doesn't make sense. You could destroy the individual aspects to your heart's content, but as long as you're "destroying" anything, Destruction still exists.

So basically, the point of this post is that, while you're right that the Endless, if they did battle with Thanos with the Heart, would lose. But it's kind of moot- it's like saying Thanos with the Heart could destroy the concept of "being."

Well if your going to use this kind of incoherent gobbledygook rambling like someone has done in this thread previously 😖hifty:, then I'll use some of similar fashion. Thanos became everything, YES IT SAID THAT ON PANEL, so essentially Dream, Endless, Death, etc. are just a part of him and since they are but a part of him, Thanos wins the match before it begins because he dictates what they'll do.

On the serious note and not using your skewed logic, Thanos HOTI is above concepts.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Well if your going to use this kind of incoherent gobbledygook rambling like someone has done in this thread previously 😖hifty:, then I'll use some of similar fashion. Thanos became everything, YES IT SAID THAT ON PANEL, so essentially Dream, Endless, Death, etc. are just a part of him and since they are but a part of him, Thanos wins the match before it begins because he dictates what they'll do.

On the serious note and not using your skewed logic, Thanos HOTI is above concepts.

I'm sorry. really no other way to put this. That just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by leonidas
iirc ripping the page from the book was what was SUPPOSED to happen (or we were meant to deduce such was the case). therefore, it was lucifer's destiny to tear out the page. therefore, lucifer himself was subject to destiny. and of course he is, since the presence WROTE the book.

Originally posted by tjcoady
[B]Lucifer did rip out of a page of the Book and burn it.

However, that page did happen to say "Now Lucifer rips out of a page of the book of Destiny and burns it."

Destiny as much as says so.

Thanos could destroy each individual aspect of the Endless. But the Endless aren't just embodiments of the concepts themselves- they ARE the concepts.

No difference, and powers beneath THOTI have altered/erased/re-created Concepts.

Originally posted by tjcoady
That's a major point in the Sandman. Morpheus is a "point of view" of Dreams. In order to truly "defeat" the Endless, Thanos would have to uncreate the universe.

Not saying that he couldn't with the THOTU- obviously he can. But the thing is, as long as Thanos still has desires or if Thanos dreams, they'd still exist- subject to his control, though.

Thanos doesn't have to uncreate the Universe,

just like Beyonder didn't have to un-create the Multiverse,
in order to erase the Concept of "Death" from Reality.

Or just like Thanos didn't have to un-create the Earth X Universe,
in order to erase "Universal Death" from that reality.

Originally posted by tjcoady
you can't really "defeat" the Endless- it's kind of a concept that just doesn't make sense. You could destroy the individual aspects to your heart's content, but as long as you're "destroying" anything, Destruction still exists.

Bottomline:

Concepts are easily manipulated byReality warpers (in Marvel)
The greater the range of influence the Warper has,
the greater the scale of the Concept's influence will the Warper control.

In this case,
we have Thanos/HOTI ...
one of several being that can completely erase any and all Concepts,
leaving behind a Void, where there is nothing, absolutely nothing,
not even Time, which "Destiny" needs to arrive at one's destiny.

Without Time, one's "destiny" would take for ever to be reach, no? 🙂

Originally posted by tjcoady
So basically, the point of this post is that, while you're right that the Endless, if they did battle with Thanos with the Heart, would lose. But it's kind of moot- it's like saying Thanos with the Heart could destroy the concept of "being."

Originally posted by tjcoady
I'm sorry. really no other way to put this. That just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by leonidas

i'll disagree with you mm when you say thanos became 'god'.

Originally posted by leonidas
god is omnipotent. thanos didn't even have the PERSONAL knowledge to realize his unconscious DESIRE kept warlock and the others alive. he perhaps had the POWER, but bearing the power did NOT make him omnipotent, clearly. you claim he was above concepts when the concept of his OWN desires was hidden from him. if he was still subject to them how exactly was he 'above them'?

Marvel stated he became "God" On Panel, and in official Bios.

Outside logic ain't gonna change that.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, COULD he somehow rewrite existence to not include these concepts? i guess, IF toaa actually wanted him to do so, but to be truly without them he would have to remove them from himself as well and assume the actual ROLE, and not just the 'power' of toaa.

Eternity and the LT acknowledged this to be a fact.

Warlock also certified this claim, aswell as Marvel.com, and the bios.

Thanos became One with All (the Omniverse)

................................................................................

"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"

................................................................................

"I was a grain of sand in a distant Future" (Other TimelineS/UniverseS)

"My Awareness continued to expand beyond the material and the Abstract,

into Realms I never suspected even existed"

(this is the same Thanos that became the entire 616 Universe TWICE before)

................................................................................

"I was a grain of sand in a Distant Future"

Thanos was connected to other TimelineS evidently

This is further proof Thanos is talking about everything, ans in "Everything"

................................................................................

"I was Everything"

Ain't that the truth.

................................................................................

...........................................................................................................

Thor says,

"Thanos has usurped the Power Supreme and now reigns over All Reality"

...........................................................................................................

Eternity says,

"I demand you relinquish the Supreme Power you have stolen"

Thanos replies,

"more like GIVEN to me"

...........................................................................................................

Thanos says,

"Your Lord & Master(Toaa/god) has abandoned you Eternity"

...........................................................................................................

Thanos says,

"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,

did you ever dare demand anything from Him"

Eternity RESPONDS,

No, but .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)

...........................................................................................................

"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...

my will is Supreme,

I will not demand worship, as my predecessor expected"

...........................................................................................................

.............................................................................

Like I said, it was also confirmed in offficial handbook Bios:

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

THOTI is:

"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"

.............................................................................

It made Thanos "SUPREME"

.............................................................................

It made him the Everything ... of All things:

"How dare these cretins defy their Supreme Being?

Was I not Now the End-All and Be-All of Reality?

Their very existence was by My Whim"

.............................................................................

You ain't lying baby:

Originally posted by Juntai
He also didn't have his items of power, since he put most of his power into his bag of dust and his mask.

Thanos, however all powerful, would probably still be subject to things like Desire, Dream, Destiny, etc. In fact, a lot of these very basic ideals like Desire and what took him as far as he did.

In pure power he's probably above them, but the endless make the realities go around, and exist until the very last vestiges of reality are gone. So in a technical manner, as long as he existed, so would they. And if we say it doesn't work like that because they're from DC or some bla bla bla, then he would hold no power over them either.

But a lot of that is due to purpose more-so than power, Thanos is the more powerful here.

When I read the part in bold,
it made me think of the instance where Morpheus shaped an entire reality from the dream of some animal, [a cat I think]. 😂

Let me just say this: Thanos does not need to hurt the concepts to win this.

But if necesary, he has PROVEN the power to do so.

Just wondering, why do you call it THOTI?

Originally posted by Mindset
Just wondering, why do you call it THOTI?

T = The
H = Heart
O = Of
T = The
I = Infinite

🙂

Why do you use infinite instead of universe? 😕

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you use infinite instead of universe? 😕

🙂

Your mom is infinite.